Lex's Journal

[William]

I feel their is just to much liquid and I still don't know, if that raw meat and fat is just kind of a hit or miss?

At our present state of knowledge, it looks like pure fat meat & water is the perfect diet; however it seems obvious that none of us are getting this.

A well fed aurochs might be the right source, but lacking a time machine we choose as carefully as we can.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heck_cattle

[PaleoPhil]

Lex  asked me to post a couple PM's I sent to him, because they might be useful to others. I'm a little embarrassed to do so, because I don't want to come across as thinking I've got special insights or abilities or anything--once you realize that a Paleo-type diet is most biologically appropriate for humans and that nutritional deficiencies and immune system malfunction are factors in many chronic diseases, much of this is stuff is pretty obvious and may be already to most of you (and it still puzzles me why this stuff isn't obvious to more scientists and physicians)--but Lex asked me to do it, so here are the combined PM's with some minor edits:

<<Lex  

I hope you weren't offended by it. It's part of the way I discovered the underlying causes of my own health issues. It might not be of any use to you, because most of your issues have either resolved or are greatly improved, and it was mostly out of intellectual scientific curiosity on my part, but I also thought it might produce some new insights for you, because it did for me.

Years ago I had numerous mysterious symptoms that were not considered concerning by the physicians, but they were baffled by them and offered little in the way of explanation. Eventually they got serious enough that both they and I were concerned, but they still had no answers. Luckily, the Internet came along and when I investigated a couple of my health issues and their symptoms I noticed that there were underlying connections. When I investigated a third I found still more connections. When I looked into all my symptoms I found a host of connections pointing to autoimmunity, nutritional deficiencies and diet.

To make a long story short, I moved and got a new primary care physician who was from Russia and practiced a more holistic approach to medicine than American physicians and when I briefly described my findings and inquired about diet and underlying causes he gave me the courage to try an elimination diet instead of getting angry at the questions [as other physicians had before when I inquired about these subjects--apparently very touchy ones for many physicians]. It worked brilliantly--far better than I had expected (because I had largely bought into what my teachers and physicians had been telling me for years--that searching for underlying causes and real cures instead of treating symptoms is a waste of time, that nutrition has nothing to do with most medical problems, that there was no cure for most of my health issues and I would just have to accept that I would be taking drugs and getting chiropractic adjustments the rest of my life, that nutritional supplements/"foodlements" only produce expensive urine, and that prescription drugs are the only truly effective, scientifically-tested treatments).

I found that the approach that had worked for me of looking for commonalities between all symptoms, no matter how minor, benign or seemingly unimportant, also worked for some friends and relatives. I taught some of these principles to my father, who had a degree in exercise physiology and knew more about biology and medicine than I did. My father and I were actually able to diagnose some conditions of friends and relatives that their doctors were baffled by and/or were able to make suggestions that dramatically improved their health. This was rather exciting for both of us and I wondered if this approach could form the basis of a new form of medicine superior to the current reductionist allopathic model. From my experience with the Internet I knew that if I could imagine something someone was probably already doing it, so I did some searching and found that there are indeed existing medical models that incorporate much or all of this (functional medicine, evolutionary medicine and naturopathy).

This approach doesn't always produce new insights, but it produced the most rewarding results of my life--largely healing most of my health issues and those of my father, sister, nephews and about a dozen or so other people, so I got hooked by it and find it hard to resist investigating other people's health issues. ...

BTW, my mother recently reminded me, that years ago our family doctor of my childhood practiced medicine using more of this wholistic/functional approach than today's physicians, so it is in part a return to an older way of practicing Western medicine. Back in 1950s to early 1970s Vermont, there weren't as many fancy drugs or tests and rural Vermonters didn't have a lot of money. So "Doc" Stannard used to do a lot of examining of the patient and asking of a lot of questions, rather than lots of tests and trying of various drugs. He would do intricate things like look at a patient's fingernails to check for signs of disease or deficiency that doctors today never do. Today's physicians would scoff at checking fingernails and asking lots of questions and getting to know the patients as a waste of time. Yet by doing so, Doc Standard was sometimes able to cure the problem without having to use any drug. Of course, today's physicians have little incentive to not use drugs.

In other nations around the world that are not wealthy and don't have a lot of drugs and medical tests, such as Russia, where my most helpful physician came from, these older techniques are still used out of necessity.>>

[William]

He would do intricate things like look at a patient's fingernails to check for signs of disease or deficiency that doctors today never do.

I would like to find why I have a permanently cracked fingernail, but have found no internet source for this. Anyone know of such?

[Michael]

Interesting post Phil and good work on helping others with your learning.

I took a similar approach myself in the early days when I first started struggling with health problems 15yrs ago but, I must admit, I don't tend to give advice anymore as found that it falls too frequently on deaf ears.  The domination of modern allopathic medicine has most spellbound and, those that aren't, I find are either fooled into following some questionable 'alternative' practices such as herbal medicine, homeopathy, kinesiology etc or are brainwashed by the dogma of politically correct nutrition.  Essentially, people find their own path and so I only offer to help those that seek it and show genuine interest in helping themselves.

The work of many physicians here in the UK seems - on the surface at least - to, similarly, revolve around lining the pockets of the pharmaceutical giants.  It's a great shame that the personal attention as you described is no longer utilised.  I think this is an inevitable result of the intolerable pressures put on modern doctors, however.  The caseloads are so high at most UK GP surgeries that appointments are allocated just 7 minutes, i think (I never go myself!).  Not much time for building a patient relationship or detailed observation/discussion based diagnosis unfortunately!  I certainly don't revile all of modern medicine and think that it does have much to offer and many keen and able proponents in the likes of Dr Harris et al.  It's the demand placed upon it and the entire structure, perhaps, that requires urgent revolution!

[PaleoPhil]

I would like to find why I have a permanently cracked fingernail, but have found no internet source for this. Anyone know of such?

Please take this as a starting point, if anything, rather than final answers, as well as with a grain of salt. I don't know if any of the following would work, as I don't have experience with a non-healing cracked nail.

CrackING/splitting nails are supposed to suggest nutritional deficiency in protein, minerals, essential fatty acids like omega 3s, or vitamins like A and Bs, and/or dehydration. So there are a lot of possible factors. If you have a nail that cracked from being damaged in nails that aren't prone to splitting, yet it won't heal, that's a bit more puzzling.

If it were me and I wanted to try getting rid of that cracked nail and there were no functional medicine practitioners or others in my area who would test my nutrient levels, I would do a search on a bunch of my remaining symptoms, no matter how small, and possibly a few that I had in the past that I thought were resolved but might not be fully resolved, and see if there are any nutritional deficiencies that are common to them. Then I would make sure my diet had plentiful sources of those nutrients. If I didn't want to eat foods rich in those nutrients or found it hard to eat enough of the nutrients, then I would try foodlements like Dr. Ron's.

I would also try putting a good skin lotion like Pure Life Coconut and Mango lotion or Aloe and Vitamin E regenerative cream (http://www.purelifesoap.com/products.html), or a mineral-rich one like Awakening Hands (http://www.awakeningskincare.com/skincare/category/ingredients), or pure vitamin E oil, then put a bandaid on it so it won't snag on something and hope it heals.

Interesting post Phil and good work on helping others with your learning.

I took a similar approach myself in the early days when I first started struggling with health problems 15yrs ago but, I must admit, I don't tend to give advice anymore as found that it falls too frequently on deaf ears.

Thanks Michael, and I take your approach too. I only give advice where it's wanted or where the person is very close and is at least semi-interested. My best friend was resistant at first to my suggestions, but she kept asking for advice, so I kept giving it to her and eventually, despite her protestations and making fun of me, she tried cutting out wheat products and that helped her health quite a bit. Now she's even started to cut back on starchy plaintains.

My father tends to be a more aggressive proponent of the diet, and I think people are a bit more willing to listen to him, because he is older, looks like a smart guy, and is a pretty persuasive talker. So sometimes he refers people to me. He thinks I should be telling the world about this stuff, but I doubt many would listen to me, and I also warn him that if they did listen and large numbers started eating the foods we eat like grassfed meats and fats and organs, those items would become prohibitively expensive. Somewhat of a catch-22. My sister wanted me to write to celebrities like Michael J. Fox (who has Parkinson's) to let them know. I told her she could do it if she wants, but Mr. Fox wouldn't listen to either of us. After she tried to convince some regular folks, I think she realizes now that most people won't listen to us, and certainly not celebrities.

case loads are so high at most UK GP surgeries that appointments are allocated just 7 minutes, i think (I never go myself!).

I don't know about surgeries, but the average not-too-intensive outpatient visit here is supposed to last about 10 to 15 minutes, and a new patient visit for a patient with a chronic illness will tend around 30 to 60 minutes. Contrast this with Dr. Bernstein, the famous American diabetes doc, who spends multiple hours with his new patients (I believe he can do this because they pay him directly instead of using insurance companies or Medicare, but I'm not sure).

I certainly don't revile all of modern medicine and think that it does have much to offer and many keen and able proponents in the likes of Dr Harris et al.  It's the demand placed upon it and the entire structure, perhaps, that requires urgent revolution!

I agree, and Dr. Bernstein seems much better than avg too. My cousin's sons have fared well with their diabetes because of Bernstein's advice. Unfortunately, I don't see the demand slackening any time soon, and I don't think any of the current proposals in the U.S. Congress are going to revolutionize healthcare for the better. I hope I'm wrong.

[lex_rooker]

Thanks for posting the PM's Phil.  I think the respones shows their value.

Lex

[carnivore]

CrackING/splitting nails are supposed to suggest nutritional deficiency in protein, minerals, essential fatty acids like omega 3s, or vitamins like A and Bs, and/or dehydration. So there are a lot of possible factors. If you have a nail that cracked from being damaged in nails that aren't prone to splitting, yet it won't heal, that's a bit more puzzling.

It indicates nutritional imbalance, whether deficiency or excess, like many symptoms.

[TylerDurden]

I took a similar approach myself in the early days when I first started struggling with health problems 15yrs ago but, I must admit, I don't tend to give advice anymore as found that it falls too frequently on deaf ears.  The domination of modern allopathic medicine has most spellbound and, those that aren't, I find are either fooled into following some questionable 'alternative' practices such as herbal medicine, homeopathy, kinesiology etc or are brainwashed by the dogma of politically correct nutrition.  Essentially, people find their own path and so I only offer to help those that seek it and show genuine interest in helping themselves.

I have to take issue with the above comments. A lot of those "questionable" practices are actually less harmful and less invasive than modern medicine and some of them do work, even if they're not as effective, overall, as a raw, palaeolithic diet. For example, c. 1 year or two before I went rawpalaeo, I went into a big supplement phase and while virtually all the processed supplements were a disaster for me(my body failed to absorb the processed vitamins and minerals and heated herbal extracts and  the like), I did have some limited success with the occasional raw herbs(preferably plucked from wild areas). I also had particular success with the homeopathic tablets related to my symptoms(and those Bach Flower Remedies) - trouble was that while those effects were real, they were never long-term, indicating that AV was right in stating that homeopathy only temporarily removed  the symptoms but did not provide a permanent cure.

[Michael]

I have to take issue with the above comments

I was wholly expecting a few members to take issue with those particularly comments Tyler!     Of course, I was stating only my own opinion based upon my own experiences.  Many others, I appreciate, have had different experiences.

After being considered myself, very much, an advocate of alternative medicine in the past I now see little value in it.  In fact, often I think it causes more harm (despite the hippocratic oath!) by wasting the time, energy and resources of people in great need.  I hate to think how much money and time I have wasted on homeopathy, acupuncture, kinesiology, herbal medicine, reiki, cranial sacral therapy, supplements, politically correct nurition etc etc.  My time and money would have been far better spent learning about raw paleolithic nutrition!  Fortunately, I eventually stumbled across this (by way of your much loathed Weston Price!)  about 12yrs ago.  Others are not so fortunate.

Yes, I think there's a place for some of these things.  They do serve as a crutch to the many people not following a diet correct for the human body - whether by real or placebo effect.  The providers of these products and services are also usually very well-meaning, kind and gentle people.  Many of my best friends swear by or actually practice in these areas themselves!

For a homo sapien sapien following a correct diet and lifestyle - I see no need or benefit for MOST of them.

Phil - I had to laugh at your sister's desire to rescue poor M.J.Fox     I remember feeling similar desires towards some of my heroes in the early days.  Even now I'm not totally immune.  I would've loved to help my biggest hero - Sir Bobby Robson - beat his cancer once and for all!  As well as recognising the fact that, as you said, they would not listen it's also worth bearing in mind that many of these people are quite content with their own fate.  They don't necessarily want or need saving.  Bobby (if you guys even know of him in the US), in particular I think, has demonstrated tremendous courage, humility and acceptance.  He's fought incredibly hard overcoming cancer on numerous occasions but in the end he knew when he was beaten.  He'd led a life of such rich fulfillment, such honour and had given so much love to so many people that he was ready to accept his fate.  I think it's important to remember that sometimes as it can be so easy to get caught up in the fight and want to convert, save and rescue everybody.

[lex_rooker]

Michael,
After reading Tyler's post, it seemed that he started out disagreeing with your premise, but ended up demonstrating through his own experience that you were spot on.  I, too, have come to believe that most alternative medicine is based on wishful thinking and the effects are temporary at best.  If this weren't the case, most of us would be on the alternative medicine web sites and taking magic elixir's rather than here on this fourm.

Lex

[Michael]

Good observation Lex.  I agree that his comments did more to affirm my own premise rather than invalidate it.  I think I understood the point to which Tyler alluded however.  As I subsequently stated, I believe it has it's place but for those of us following a correct diet and lifestyle - my own view, also, is that it offers nothing.

[alphagruis]

It"s likely that many alternative medicines such as homeopathy or kinesiology just do work temporarily by the well known placebo effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

Herbal medicine has real effects but certainly can't really cure illness originating in inappropriate diets.

[Michael]

I agree alphagruis.  See my earlier post.
 

They do serve as a crutch to the many people not following a diet correct for the human body - whether by real or placebo effect.

I, too, believe herbal medicine, particularly, is one of the better ones.  I have friends with degrees in herbal medicine and, in the distant past, have been on short-courses learning about and concocting different remedies from local wild plants.  But, in my view, just another crutch for the ill-fed.

[PaleoPhil]

I agree, Lex. I used to work in a health food/supplement/remedy store. The only products my customers regularly mentioned benefits from were minerals (commonly deficient in modern diets), flaxseed oil (we didn't have fish oil) and meal, senna for constipation, and one or two others that are slipping my mind right now. Most of the customers continued to have symptoms but kept taking the products with the hope they would work in the long run.

To consider minerals, even processed ones, "expensive urine," yet believe that quack remedies like homeopathy and Bach flower remedies work significantly is baffling to me. Getting one's nutrients from food is optimal, and taking minerals risks throwing other minerals out of balance, but minerals clearly have effects and have been proven to have them in clinically controlled studies and are used by physicians to treat patients. Physicians would laugh at homeopathy and Back remedies, and for good reason, in this case. I only had a handful of customers claim that the homeopathic or flower remedies actually resolved a problem of theirs, and it was mainly for ailments that normally resolve on their own anyway (which is why the homeopathic remedies that are supposed to treat or prevent temporary problems like flu are the most popular). I tried some homeopathic and flower remedies for kicks and they had absolutely zero effect, despite my following the intricate instructions of the homeopathic expert to the letter (I suspect they make the instructions complex so they can claim you didn't follow them when the product fails). Homeopathic remedies are also more processed than many vitamin/mineral supplements and even contain lactose from dairy (albeit in tiny amounts).

Nassim Taleb explained why homeopathic remedies actually produced better results than standard medicine until recent decades--standard medicine was actually doing net harm! Homeopathic remedies were good because they kept you from going to the doctor, or worse, the hospital.  

Even though only a couple of my customers praised the herbal products we had, including dried herbs (except for really powerful herbs like senna for constipation--though I don't recommend it for long-term use), I think there is something to them, because wild animals use them medicinally. I doubt wild animals would use them if there wasn't some sort of real benefit. I think the reason they don't tend to work for most people is the ill effects of the modern diet overwhelm their benefits for most people.

[alphagruis]

I agree alphagruis.  See my earlier post.

Ah sorry  Michael. I overlooked the end of your sentence.

 
I, too, believe herbal medicine, particularly, is one of the better ones.  I have friends with degrees in herbal medicine and, in the distant past, have been on short-courses learning about and concocting different remedies from local wild plants.  But, in my view, just another crutch for the ill-fed.

Very true. Herbal medicine, as mainstream modern medicine basically provide drugs in the form of pills, drops etc that at best alleviate some of the adverse effects of an inappropriate way of life.

[TylerDurden]

Michael,
After reading Tyler's post, it seemed that he started out disagreeing with your premise, but ended up demonstrating through his own experience that you were spot on.  I, too, have come to believe that most alternative medicine is based on wishful thinking and the effects are temporary at best.  If this weren't the case, most of us would be on the alternative medicine web sites and taking magic elixir's rather than here on this fourm.

Lex

Absolute nonsense. What I actually meant to say was that herbal medicine and homeopathy had limited, partial success when combined with a cooked diet. However, such remedies would have much greater effect when combined with a rawpalaeo diet. For example, that kidney stone you mentioned(which you got despite being rawpalaeo) could have been sorted out with 1 of these herbs, taken in addition:-

"Juniper berries .
Uva ursi
Dandelion Leaf
 Horsetail, and Parsley Root and Leaf "

The simple fact is that carnivores eating raw diets in the wild also have need for herbal medicine from time to time, so it is logical that we should use them too. Indeed, technically, I still use raw herbs from time to time(more so in the last year or so), though I really refer to them as raw foods/spices(ie things like cayenne pepper, garlic, garlic leaves(yum!).


 

[Sully]

Absolute nonsense. What I actually meant to say was that herbal medicine and homeopathy had limited, partial success when combined with a cooked diet. However, such remedies would have much greater effect when combined with a rawpalaeo diet. For example, that kidney stone you mentioned(which you got despite being rawpalaeo) could have been sorted out with 1 of these herbs, taken in addition:-

"Juniper berries .
Uva ursi
Dandelion Leaf
 Horsetail, and Parsley Root and Leaf "

The simple fact is that carnivores eating raw diets in the wild also have need for herbal medicine from time to time, so it is logical that we should use them too. Indeed, technically, I still use raw herbs from time to time(more so in the last year or so), though I really refer to them as raw foods/spices(ie things like cayenne pepper, garlic, garlic leaves(yum!).


 

I found this video of red wolves (i think) eating berries. Don't know if its set up or not.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TmuYTb6ynbg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TmuYTb6ynbg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[PaleoPhil]

[Edit: off-topic stuff removed]

[lex_rooker]

If you want to discuss herbal remedies please do it in another thread.  I have zero interest in lending any support to the subject.  It is not what my journal is about.

Lex

[lex_rooker]

I think I should probably bring a little more clarity to my rather blunt statement regarding discussing herbal remedies in my journal.  I got a PM from PaleoPhil and I think the response I sent would be useful here as well.

My journal is about what I'm doing, the problems I'm facing, the things I find useful, and the things I believe in.  My experience with herbal remedies and magic potions has not been good.  In my experience many cause more harm than good.  I know that some actually work like, sweeteners, diuretics, and laxatives, but they only treat the symptoms, often creating dependency, and don't address the underlying cause.  I much prefer to get over my addiction to sugar, not feed it with herbal substitutes, and live my life in a way that doesn't require that I become dependent on herbal remedies to support natural body functions.

I also had a dear friend that died from drinking a popular herbal tea in the 1970's that was touted as a miracle cancer preventative and cure.  He didn't have cancer, but believed in the power of herbs to prevent illness.  The herb destroyed his kidneys and he died a miserable and very painful death.  After hundreds of people died from this "completely safe and natural" herbal tea it was finally made illegal.

I understand that when I tell people of a problem that I’m having, well-wishers will rush to tell me about how I can cure it with an herbal remedy.  I’m fine with this as I can ignore it or comment on the fact that I choose not to use such remedies and why.  However, I feel that an ongoing discussion of stuff that I don’t believe in is inappropriate in my journal.

Hope everyone understands,

Lex

[RawZi]

    I understand, as best I can, never having gone a long period on just meat, fat, organs and water.  I read your entries.  I admire how well you express yourself, in comparison how others express themselves who are not on raw zc.  You could ask my household.  I don't ignore your journal as anything negative.  I just have nothing from personal experience to add, and not sure if I should go around back patting.  If I were you I would definitely do zc no herbs.  I don't like using herbs anyway.  Easy to utilize raw natural protein and fats give me a more healthful feeling as well, over fruit, vegetables, green juices or medicinal herbs.  I would do what you're doing and more possibly will in maybe fifteen years, if I feel I need it then.  For my age and gender, I'm pretty sure I need carbs at least half the year until then.

[William]

I understand that when I tell people of a problem that I’m having, well-wishers will rush to tell me about how I can cure it with an herbal remedy.  I’m fine with this as I can ignore it or comment on the fact that I choose not to use such remedies and why.  However, I feel that an ongoing discussion of stuff that I don’t believe in is inappropriate in my journal.

Hope everyone understands,

Lex

  Well said.
Traditional cures - eye of newt, toe of frog, dragon's blood, ear of chicken (?) - were not herbal.

[RawZi]

    I heard in TCM they use bear gall as a remedy, and roaches.  People even call them Chinese herbs.  Where can I get eye of newt?  I think I have seen newts.  Maybe that's a place to start, setting a trap or just grabbing a newt.  What in a person can eye of newt help?  Just kidding.  I'm fine with four footed furry animals for now.  Not sure if I was amphibians and such in my diet.  I guess if I ever live in a more amphibious or other hot climate in the future I will have ideas now for the change in my menu.

[van]

  I thought of this while driving home today.  Animals eat all kinds of things we wouldn't eat, like rotten, beyond high meat, diseased animals,  and can't eat all that we would; availability.  It's possible that they turn to herbs to combat either over eating, or under eating due to lack of prey.  But I wonder if given choices like we have on a daily basis like organs, fat, meat, bone marrow, etc. would they be found turning to herbs and like the wolves previously shown here, berries?

[PaleoPhil]

Guys, remember--Lex just said he doesn't want herb discussions in his journal.

Lex, based on the appearance of my urine, I figured I was still drinking insufficient water, so I searched for how much traditional Inuit drink and found this:

The Inuit drink "large quantities of water (5 to 6 litres per day), characteristic of the protein-rich diet that triggers renal elimination of the products of catabolism." Consuming the Inedible: Neglected Dimensions by Jeremy MacClancy, p. 123

That's about 10.5 to 12.5 pints of water a day! Do you have any thoughts on how much water raw carnivorous humans should drink per day?