Lex's Journal

[Nicola]

Lex, you used to (years ago) do all kinds of "healthy things" and a while back you mentioned that your intestines are just fine after having a colonscopy (on your meat diet); I take it you had to clean them with salts?

When I read threw the following sight

http://www.webspirit.com/kahuna/produkte/oxypowder.htm

(I know it's not paleo and they are making money) but what goes threw your head - we can't possibly be not full of "it" even on raw or perhaps even more so?

At the end they even mention some words about kidnee stones...

Nicola

[lex_rooker]

Lex, you used to (years ago) do all kinds of "healthy things" and a while back you mentioned that your intestines are just fine after having a colonscopy (on your meat diet); I take it you had to clean them with salts?

I just did a couple of saltwater flushes.  1 tablespoon (15ml) of salt mixed with 1 quart (1 litre) of water.  Mix well and drink all of it quickly.  I did this the morning and again in the evening of the day before the exam, and didn’t eat anything from the time I started until the exam was over.

The point of this exercise is to completely empty the colon so that the doctor isn’t trying to look at the colon walls through a slug of fecal material.  It has nothing whatever to do with removing toxins or any of the other alternative medicine stuff.

When I read threw the following sight

http://www.webspirit.com/kahuna/produkte/oxypowder.htm

(I know it's not paleo and they are making money) but what goes threw your head - we can't possibly be not full of "it" even on raw or perhaps even more so?

Since I don’t believe in the ‘toxic colon’ theory, I find products like this a waste of time and money.  Based on the active ingredients (magnesium oxide), it is nothing but very expensive Milk of Magnesia dressed up with a lot of fancy advertising.  I personally have no use for such products.  They are very irritating to the bowls and you can become dependent on them.

Lex

[lex_rooker]

I am considering adding a few servings of sardines each week to see if that has any effect on my A1c.

I doubt that this will create much of a measurable effect.  A few sardines a week are insignificant compared to what our natural diet would have contained which is between 25% and 50% of all fats being in the Omega 3 family, but go for it and prove it for yourself.

If A1c is supposedly providing a 2-3 month average of blood glucose levels, then perhaps I should follow your lead, by a blood glucose monitor, and chart the dynamics of my blood glucose. I know there are supposed to be correlations between blood glucose levels and A1c readings. So, I can see if they apply to my particular situation.

As I understand it, HbA1c is a measure of blood glycation products.  This is the effect of a molecule of glucose permanently attaching itself to a blood cell.  The higher the average level of glucose in the blood, the more glycation products will result over a given time period.  Since blood cells have a life span of about 90 days, the amount of glycation products in the blood at any given time will provide a rough estimate of the average amount of blood glucose levels over a 90 day time period.

What I find interesting is that an HbA1c level of 6.0% is supposedly equivalent to an average BG level of about 130 mg/dl.  Yet having kept careful records of my BG levels over many months, it seldom went above 110 (after meals, with only one meal per day) and averaged right around 100.  The difference between my case and the ‘normal’ population, is that my BG is very steady at 100 mg/dl where most people have violent swings in BG several times per day as they eat 3 high carb meals as well as carb loaded snacks.  Whether my very stable BG is what throws the official correlation tables of A1c to average BG off I have no idea.  Maybe my experiment will shed a bit more light on the subject.

Lex     

[Dextery]

With HbA1c being a measure of BG over a couple of months and if we accept an elevated level being an indicator of probability of death, then are we talking strictly cardiac problems or are there other diseases that A1c indicates?

Dr. William Davis at The Heart Scan Blog talks extensively about the dangers of too many small dense LDL particles in the blood...a predictor of heart disease.

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/to-track-small-ldl-track-blood-sugar.html  in this post Dr Davis talks about
using measurements of BG as being a rough way to determine the particle count of small dense LDL in the blood.  Higher BG correlates to higher levels of small dense LDL particles which is a marker for a cardiac event.....a direct at home inexpensive method to evaluate one's diet and can assist in determining the affect of any specific food on BG and therefore small dense LDL particles.
Whereas, A1c levels usually are much more expensive and may not provide any more information than BG testing. And direct testing of LDL particle size by NMR, VAP is also expensive.

Does A1c provide us any useful information other than satisfy curiosity of each of our readings....that the reading falls within the acceptable
reference ranges of the mainstream medical establishment?

And with your average BG readings hovering around 100 all the time because you don't consume any carbs, why worry about A1c?  And by extention your
small dense LDL should be less than 10% of total LDL.  The remainder are all large, fluffy non irritating particles.

[lex_rooker]

Dextery,

I have no clue as to whether A1c, dense LDL, (or any other measurement for that matter) provides much in the way of useful information.

As for worrying about A1c levels, I don't.  I just thought it would be interesting to see if changing the fat to protein ratio of the food I eat would influence this measurement.  Just another tiny piece of a puzzle that is far too large to slove in my lifetime.

Lex

[moises]

Dr. William Davis at The Heart Scan Blog talks extensively about the dangers of too many small dense LDL particles in the blood...a predictor of heart disease. . . . And direct testing of LDL particle size by NMR, VAP is also expensive.

Does A1c provide us any useful information other than satisfy curiosity of each of our readings....that the reading falls within the acceptable
reference ranges of the mainstream medical establishment?

And with your average BG readings hovering around 100 all the time because you don't consume any carbs, why worry about A1c?  And by extention your
small dense LDL should be less than 10% of total LDL.  The remainder are all large, fluffy non irritating particles.

For anyone who is looking for data, I had the LDL subfractions tested about a year ago, on my own. My doctor still wants me to take statins and has no interest in learning about the LDL subfractions. My test showed that I was pattern A. If you search the literature, there is some evidence that you do not need to take the expensive NMR or VAP tests. You can (using the units in typical US lab results) divide your triglycerides by your HDL. If the ratio is less than 3.8, you probably have the light, fluffy, Pattern A LDL.  http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0002914905022149

It's not clear to me how A1c correlates with LDL subfraction measurements and why one should be given greater weight.

[Nicola]

I just did a couple of saltwater flushes.  1 tablespoon (15ml) of salt mixed with 1 quart (1 litre) of water.  Mix well and drink all of it quickly.  I did this the morning and again in the evening of the day before the exam, and didn’t eat anything from the time I started until the exam was over.

Since I don’t believe in the ‘toxic colon’ theory, I find products like this a waste of time and money.  Based on the active ingredients (magnesium oxide), it is nothing but very expensive Milk of Magnesia dressed up with a lot of fancy advertising.  I personally have no use for such products.  They are very irritating to the bowls and you can become dependent on them.

Lex

Did you take plain salt - they talk about taking about 7 days to clean things up and then you still need to take it every 2 days...other people also seem to find a lot comes out of our system when they have some kind of "detox".

They also say that this product is not milk of magnesia; I looked up magnesium and yes, it seems to be quite an important mineral - also in preventing kidnee stones.

http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T29226.html

No mention of meat being a good sauce of magnesium - and on top of that we need magnesium for good digestion.

What do you think?

Nicola

[lex_rooker]

Did you take plain salt - they talk about taking about 7 days to clean things up and then you still need to take it every 2 days...other people also seem to find a lot comes out of our system when they have some kind of "detox".

Just plain cheap salt.  Salt is salt.  You can spend lots of money on designer salt but it is still sodium chloride.  I don't believe in 'detox'.  I think it is mostly nonsense.  This comes from spending years of listening to gurus who told me that all my problems were due to detox and that I needed to follow their advice and take their remedies.  After years of faithfully doing what I was told, with little in the way of measurable results, I’ve come to believe it is all nonsense.  The problems cleared up when I started eating the right foods.

They also say that this product is not milk of magnesia; I looked up magnesium and yes, it seems to be quite an important mineral - also in preventing kidney stones.

Lots of other minerals are important as well.  It is the form in which we consume them that makes the difference.  The type of magnesium in their product is in a form that causes irritation to the bowls.  This is not a good thing.  They can say what they wish about their product and technically it may be true, but that doesn’t make it less of a poison to the body.  Milk of magnesia is a liquid product containing a form of magnesium that irritates the bowls causing them to contract to try to get rid of the poison.  Their product contains a form of magnesium that has exactly the same effect.  The fact that it is in a pill rather than liquid form may technically allow them to say it is not milk of magnesia, but the effect on the body is exactly the same.

They also say that their magnesium is ‘ozonated’ which they state is a powerful form of oxygen.  Oxygen is stable when two molecules are connected together as in the form we breath which is O2.  Ozone is three molecules of oxygen that are connected together and it’s call O3.  O3 is very unstable and starts to quickly turn back into O2.  You can’t store it as within hours of putting it in a bottle most of it has broken back down to O2.  They try to make you believe that there is something magic about their ozonated magnesium.  It is all advertising hype and nonsense.

As an example we create ozone and immediately bubble it through water to kill bacteria because ozone is a very powerful oxidizer like bleach.  We then bottle the ‘purified’ water and within a very short time there is no more ozone in it at all.  All the ozone has broken down and turned back into plain old O2 which is what makes up the air we breath.  They would have to manufacture their product and ship it to you within minutes for it to arrive at your home and still contain any ozone or O3.  Besides, our bodies are not designed to used ozone and it is harmful to us if we breath it in any concentration.  It would be like breathing the fumes from a bleach bottle – not healthy.

No mention of meat being a good source of magnesium - and on top of that we need magnesium for good digestion. 

Meat contains approximately the same amount of magnesium as it does calcium, and I think we’ve pretty much demonstrated that the calcium is sufficient to meet our needs.  Therefore I’m confident that the magnesium is also in a form that is available to our bodies and in sufficient quantity to meet our needs.

There are no magic cures or potions.  I stopped wasting my time looking for them long ago.  I found that the most powerful thing I can do for my health is to eat the proper foods.

Lex

[klowcarb]

Hey, Lex! It's Katelyn from ZIOH. I just wanted to drop by and say hello.

[Nicola]

Meat contains approximately the same amount of magnesium as it does calcium, and I think we’ve pretty much demonstrated that the calcium is sufficient to meet our needs.  Therefore I’m confident that the magnesium is also in a form that is available to our bodies and in sufficient quantity to meet our needs.

There are no magic cures or potions.  I stopped wasting my time looking for them long ago.  I found that the most powerful thing I can do for my health is to eat the proper foods.

Lex

Lex, I didn't know that meat had much magnesium (they do not mention meat) - so because quite a few eating meat and fat have trouble and believe this is all part of healthy "detox" I kind of think I am in trouble too. My thoughts are that the body is not getting the right tools...Carlos posted this and as you can see - a big difference to eating ground beef:

http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2900

Sorry also that I didn't send the English text of this "oxy powder" - I know it's all about money but it sounds good to kind of clean up; kind of human nature...

Nicola

[lex_rooker]

Hey, Lex! It's Katelyn from ZIOH. I just wanted to drop by and say hello.

Hi Katelyn, welcome aboard.  We have a rather eclectic group here, and certainly no shortage of opinions.  Hope you enjoy this forum as much as I do.

Lex

[lex_rooker]

Nicola,
Our bodies must make adjustments when moving from one major food type to another.  As an example, when eating carbs our cells can use the glucose directly for energy in a simple fermentive process very similar to the way yeast and bacteria use glucose.  However, when eating mostly fat for energy our cells must go through a much more complex process of converting fatty acids into energy and this requires mitochondria in the cells to make the conversion.

In our modern culture most of us have spent our lives eating mostly carbs so our cells only have the minimum number of mitochondria necessary to carry out specialized functions for the cell but not enough to efficiently metabolize fatty acids to provide all the energy the cells need from fat alone.  The cells must create more mitochondria to efficiently use the fat as a primary energy source and this takes time as mitochondria are very much like small living cells within our larger living cells.

During the weeks that it takes the mitochondria to build up to sufficient levels, we will feel a lack of energy, be a bit sluggish, and will most likely lose a good bit of weight as our bodies are not using the fuel we are giving it very efficiently. The gurus will call this sluggishness DETOX.  But there is nothing toxic about it.  It is simply the body taking time in adapting to more efficiently use a different food source.  Of course the gurus claim the lack of energy is due to detox and this gives them an opportunity to sell you all kinds of remedies.  Over time, the body adapts and you start to feel much better (which would have happened without the detox cures). The then gurus claim success and the detox myth is perpetuated.

This is just one example and there are may others.  The body is complex and adaptive, but it takes time, and charlatans will use this as an opportunity to sell you things you don’t need to solve problems that don’t exist.

You see, detox is perfect for this purpose.  There is no medical test for it because it doesn’t exist (except for heavy metal poisoning like lead or mercury, but that is not what we are talking about).  It is totally fabricated nonsense that can be adjusted to fit whatever symptoms a person is complaining about.  And, you can shift the problem around to different parts of the body, (liver, colon, spleen, kidney, thyroid, etc) to keep selling more worthless remedies.  The Internet and Health Food Stores are full of this junk. 

“I feel tired and run down” 
“Oh, you clearly have symptoms of detox – we have a wonderful cure for that!  Step right over here…..”

Lex

[Nicola]

Can you just rub past the thread about drinking water - it's not easy to know what the hell to do. Between what was mentioned from some members in your journal about drinking more water and now this other thread and no extra water...and then needing coconuts to have a bowel movement...oh, I wish life was easy!

Nicola

[William]

But life was]/i] easy in the paleolithic - that's why we try to copy it.

How about seeing the human body as a constant-loss system; it follows that we must replace the lost minerals/electrolytes/nutrients with the same kind of stuff.
Pemmican does that for me, unless I do sweaty work, then I add dried seawater to drinking water to replace lost electrolytes.
You might be losing sweat while swimming.

[Nicola]

But life was]/i] easy in the paleolithic - that's why we try to copy it.

How about seeing the human body as a constant-loss system; it follows that we must replace the lost minerals/electrolytes/nutrients with the same kind of stuff.
Pemmican does that for me, unless I do sweaty work, then I add dried seawater to drinking water to replace lost electrolytes.
You might be losing sweat while swimming.

I never sweat - only when I start to worry that I shouldn't be drinking water or not...I do notice that water can make me sick many hours after eating meat and fat (in the night); that's why I don't eat at night.

I still wonder if I need magnesium - but then again how? Can I get seawater in Switzerland?

Nicola

[Willeke]

Our bodies must make adjustments when moving from one major food type to another.  As an example, when eating carbs our cells can use the glucose directly for energy in a simple fermentive process very similar to the way yeast and bacteria use glucose.  However, when eating mostly fat for energy our cells must go through a much more complex process of converting fatty acids into energy and this requires mitochondria in the cells to make the conversion.

In our modern culture most of us have spent our lives eating mostly carbs so our cells only have the minimum number of mitochondria necessary to carry out specialized functions for the cell but not enough to efficiently metabolize fatty acids to provide all the energy the cells need from fat alone.  The cells must create more mitochondria to efficiently use the fat as a primary energy source and this takes time as mitochondria are very much like small living cells within our larger living cells.
 

Hi Lex! Yes, I'm reading here, too <g>.
I was surprised when I read this, for that seems to be the explanation of what dr Atkins called "the golden shot", i.e. that the first time you start LC, it work MUCH better than the second, the third and so on time...

It would explain a LOT to me, like why I don't lose weight quicker now, I simply have too many of those mitochondria left from my previous LC and ZC adventures...!  It doens't matter, I will still stay ZC and mostly pemmican, too, but I like understanding these things. Thanks!!!  (Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick here..?)

[alphagruis]

You see, detox is perfect for this purpose.  There is no medical test for it because it doesn’t exist (except for heavy metal poisoning like lead or mercury, but that is not what we are talking about).  It is totally fabricated nonsense that can be adjusted to fit whatever symptoms a person is complaining about.  And, you can shift the problem around to different parts of the body, (liver, colon, spleen, kidney, thyroid, etc) to keep selling more worthless remedies.  The Internet and Health Food Stores are full of this junk. 

“I feel tired and run down” 
“Oh, you clearly have symptoms of detox – we have a wonderful cure for that!  Step right over here…..”

I agree that the concept of "detox" is indeed invoked systematically by all the gurus as the cause if any adverse effects suddenly happen or something goes wrong or deteriorates for those people who stubornly follow their dietary guidelines for years. Much easier for the gurus to "expain away" the problem in this manner than to possibly question the pertinence of their dietary guidelines themselves...

Yet I don't agree that "detox" doesn't merely exist at all, Lex. Things are not that simple unfortunately. Most likely your recent elimination of kidney stones are just another example of "detox" that takes place years after the beginning of a more appropriate diet.   

[van]

I agree with the latest comment,  think the main point is that it's really hard not to let the mind jump in and intervene with the perpetual logic that something needs to be purchased to complete the detox, that there is a magic bullet out there.  The mind is pretty  tricky, real tricky

[William]

I still wonder if I need magnesium - but then again how? Can I get seawater in Switzerland?

Those clever French have made it possible to get dried seawater everywhere - it is called Celtic salt or, in Quebec, Le Paludier.

[lex_rooker]

Yet I don't agree that "detox" doesn't merely exist at all, Lex. Things are not that simple unfortunately. Most likely your recent elimination of kidney stones are just another example of "detox" that takes place years after the beginning of a more appropriate diet. 

I suppose it depends on what you are calling detox.  The truth is, the body is in a constant state of detox.  This function is being continually performed by liver, kidney, lungs, and skin etc.  Without it, we would quickly die.  I just don't believe that we store massive amounts of toxins that require herbal remedies and magic elixirs to rectify.

Lex

[PaleoPhil]

I never sweat - only when I start to worry that I shouldn't be drinking water or not...I do notice that water can make me sick many hours after eating meat and fat (in the night); that's why I don't eat at night.

I still wonder if I need magnesium - but then again how? Can I get seawater in Switzerland?

Nicola

Other than worry I don't notice you reporting many symptoms of magnesium deficiency, Nicola. So if you do have it, it's probably not severe and you certainly wouldn't need the mega-dose of that Oxypowder product on a regular basis. That megadosage suggests to me that it is only designed to be used occasionally and purely as a laxative rather than a nutrient deficiency replacer.

Lex is right. I used to sell detox products along with lots of other "natural" remedies at a vitamin/health-food shop. I checked out the ingredients on all of them and they all had at least one laxative ingredient (the most common being psyllium seed, senna and magnesium). So the word "detox" seems to be added to these products just so they can charge more than products labeled as "laxatives." As a matter of fact, several of the detox products had nearly or exactly the same ingredients as cheap laxative products, with the only difference being the name and the price. One trick that supplement/herbal companies use is to take an active ingredient, like senna, and then add a bunch of herbs to it that have fancy names, claim it is some sort of special "formula" and then charge a lot more for it. Another is to claim they use a special process on the product, like the "ozonation" of the oxypowder product, which is bogus, as Lex pointed out.

As others have said, there is no magic bullet. Mg seems to help me a little, but it's not dramatic, and I'm hoping that as I adapt to this diet, I'll eventually be able to do without it. I think I'll probably continue to need some cod liver oil or straight-D3 supplements, only because I don't get much sunlight, but my basic goal is to whittle my supplements/foodlements/replacements down to as little as possible. I see them as a second-to-last resort (with Px meds being the last resort) for as long as diet alone doesn't quite do it for me (but the improvements I experienced on days I was taking no supplements tells me my diet is on the right track).

[lex_rooker]

It would explain a LOT to me, like why I don't lose weight quicker now, I simply have too many of those mitochondria left from my previous LC and ZC adventures...!  It doens't matter, I will still stay ZC and mostly pemmican, too, but I like understanding these things. Thanks!!!  (Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick here..?)

Yup, sounds like you got it.  This is the reason that weight loss stops after an extended period of ZC/VLC.  Unfortunately, calories do count, and once you are adapted, you must again reduce energy intake to below energy expenditure if you want to continue weight loss.  

Lex

[lex_rooker]

Nicola,

Looks like others have stepped in an offered suggestions as well.  Not much I can add.

Lex

[cherimoya_kid]

I just don't believe that we store massive amounts of toxins that require herbal remedies and magic elixirs to rectify.

Lex

People who have died (or nearly died) of heavy metal poisoning would probably disagree. I'm not saying that you've got to have this or that remedy in a general sense.  What I AM saying is that it isn't as simple as "ZC, all the time, nothing but the ZC". There's a time for certain herbs, man.  Even carnivores occasionally snack on certains grasses or herbs. 

What you are missing, Lex, is that an extreme approach, like what you are doing, is rarely safe or workable, long-term, for everyone. The Universe just isn't that simple, I think.

I support your experimentation, but be aware that I am looking at you, and your theories, with a very skeptical eye.  I definitely am glad you're doing what you're doing.  Someone needs to, if for no other reason than to say to people "here's what can and has happened on long-term all-meat ZC."  That data is valuable.  However, I think your theorizing is less useful than the raw anecdotal data, at least to me. Theorize away, just be aware that theory can be proven wrong...even the parts that you thought was "for certain".

But, if you would prefer not to hear my criticisms, say so, and I'll simply think my thoughts more quietly.  Please don't take my silence for agreement, though.

[lex_rooker]

People who have died (or nearly died) of heavy metal poisoning would probably disagree. I'm not saying that you've got to have this or that remedy in a general sense. 

Apparently you didn’t read all my recent posts on this subject.  I explicitly excluded heavy metal poisoning from my comments.  Here’s the quote:

You see, detox is perfect for this purpose.  There is no medical test for it because it doesn’t exist (except for heavy metal poisoning like lead or mercury, but that is not what we are talking about).

What I AM saying is that it isn't as simple as "ZC, all the time, nothing but the ZC". There's a time for certain herbs, man.  Even carnivores occasionally snack on certains grasses or herbs.

What you are missing, Lex, is that an extreme approach, like what you are doing, is rarely safe or workable, long-term, for everyone. The Universe just isn't that simple, I think.

Again, apparently you haven’t read much of my journal.  If you had, you’d know that my ZC started as an experiment and that I decided to stick with it long term to see if it would help with my BPH issue.  I also recommend VLC to anyone who asks for my opinion as I did VLC before trying ZC and have come to believe that there is little practical difference between the two as far as overall benefits are concerned – and there may be significant advantages to VLC.

I support your experimentation, but be aware that I am looking at you, and your theories, with a very skeptical eye.  I definitely am glad you're doing what you're doing.  Someone needs to, if for no other reason than to say to people "here's what can and has happened on long-term all-meat ZC."  That data is valuable.  However, I think your theorizing is less useful than the raw anecdotal data, at least to me. Theorize away, just be aware that theory can be proven wrong...even the parts that you thought was "for certain".

Each of us is allowed to evaluate what is useful and what isn’t.  We each get to create our own theories from the information we have before us.  No one is stopping you from doing your own experiments, gathering your own data, and expressing your own ideas.  But of course if you do that, you open yourself to being criticized just as you are criticizing me.  What is interesting is that your criticisms of me are based on other peoples ideas and theories which you’ve chosen to accept as true.  Most of my ideas are based on my own experiments and experience.

But, if you would prefer not to hear my criticisms, say so, and I'll simply think my thoughts more quietly.  Please don't take my silence for agreement, though.

You are free to challenge anything I write.  I have come to many wrong conclusions and accept this as part of the learning process.  I only ask that you target specific issues where you come to a different conclusion than I do, provide your alternate theory, as well as your reasoning as to how you arrived at your conclusions.  This way the readers of my journal and I can effectively evaluate your arguments and respond if we so choose.

Spirited debate is what forums are all about,

Lex