Ramblings of a madman...

[William]

William is too hung up on his proselytization of fats which have had heat applied to them (Tallow and now Ghee) for me to take anything he says at face value now.

I used it in preference to the original recipe which called for vegetable oil.
I use what I have, others should do what they think best.

I notice that you are careful not to use the word "render". 

[TylerDurden]

I agree, I've gotten to the point of usually tuning out when detox is mentioned. It's so vague and can be twisted in so many ways that it's basically meaningless at this point. For example, I've seen it used many times to justify dangerous 811 diets to people who were doing terribly on them.

  I do think that detox exists as I've had personal experience with it in the past. Generally speaking, though, if someone routinely experiences negative symptoms with a particular food then that is a clear sign that it is unhealthy for you and not a detox. Genuine detoxes while eating only healthy raw foods occur at random and don't coincide with the consumption of specific foods. The only exception I've found to this is edible clay which  is well-known for its ability to absorb toxins - even then, it only worked once in starting a detox.

[Paleo Donk]

Maybe I'm just being stubborn and blind to the "detox" properties of the eggs but my body is doing great without them in my diet and I'm healing up just fine so I see no need to mess things up with an unknown variable that has given overtly negative stimuli upon ingestion. Hell, it might help things but at the same time it could make my gut permeable again and chance me developing food allergies to beef; not a risk I'm willing to take.

This is well said and I don't know much of anything about detoxes and haven't really found any reliable sources confirming their existence and so many people do fine without any type of magic. I've also never experienced any detox symptoms so I don't know what they would be.

But, there seems to be one exception that I have seen evidence for online and that is the supposed liver flush. There seems to be a lot of pictures with proof of multiple stones being passed after similar procedure to what william posted on. This seems to be the only one that might be legit. I'm sure you've seen the blog of GS who knows much more about it. As for detoxes, thats it so far.

[djr_81]

But, there seems to be one exception that I have seen evidence for online and that is the supposed liver flush. There seems to be a lot of pictures with proof of multiple stones being passed after similar procedure to what william posted on. This seems to be the only one that might be legit. I'm sure you've seen the blog of GS who knows much more about it. As for detoxes, thats it so far.

Liver flushes do seem to have some validity to them. As I've said before I wouldn't be opposed to giving one a shot but I'm allergic to a component (apples and citrus fruits come to mind) in pretty much any recipe I've seen so it doesn't look like I will try one. I could spend a couple days eating bone marrow until I vomit though.

FWIW I've had a bad headache as well as a number of bad stomach pains and difficult to pass (but overly urgent) stools today. Another sign of an allergy and not "detox" IMO.

[djr_81]

The rain stopped last night and this morning was sunny and 50*F so I went for a 2 mile jog. I feel invigorated and fantastic now. It's funny; I've been using my stationary exercise bike over the winter to keep up a routine and it did help some but after seeing how I feel this morning with a higher level of exertion in fresh air it's apparent it wasn't doing nearly enough.
I'm glad we're going to have at least 7 days of great weather starting today so I can get back into exercise outside.

[djr_81]

I had some fresh Dandelion yesterday picked right here in my yard. I had close to two dozen new flowerheads as well as ~1/4 cup of fresh greens. The flowers had a tart edge with a slightly sweet undernote that just tasted like spring. The greens were also very "green" and were nice after such a long time eating solely ZC. I can definitely see why it's a bitter tonic plant though; there's a welcome bitterness kind of like the pith on a citrus fruit.
The best news of all is I don't seem to be suffering either food allergy nor Candida reactions to the Dandelion so I'll be pursuing other "weeds" to see what sits well and probably add in a single meal each week when in season.

[djr_81]

If it tastes bad you're not deficient in that trace mineral.
My family used to have a good laugh doing the test panel of trace mineral solutions. I think it was a panel of 8 minerals, all in their own aqueous solutions, that you put a drop of each on the tongue to see what you're deficient in. If it tasted sweet/good you were deficient. If it tasted bland you were borderline. If it tasted bad you were fine with that mineral.
The funniest part was we'd have a friend who was over give it a shot and they'd invariably have different minerals tasted completely different to them. Molybdenum, the most foul tasting one of the bunch for me, would be quite plain for someone else while perhaps  Chromium would be disgusting for them and quite tasty for me.
Now that I think of it I will give the panel a test tonight (haven't done it in years) and see what my deficiencies, if any, are after eating carnivore for 8 months.

Not the most encouraging results.
Most were bland to kind of nice tasting. The only mineral that was unpleasant (and not even as bad as I remember these things tasting in the past) was Zinc which is not surprising. The most pleasant tasting was copper so I definitely need more liver than I've been getting.
I do need to stipulate that I only eat maybe 5% of my diet as organ meat and of that maybe 2 1/2 to 3% is tongue. I obviously need more organ meats in my diet.
I still need to buy that farrier's file too so I can get bone meal in my diet.
I don't know, it just seems discouraging over.

I'm also second-guessing myself now so far as eating strictly carnivore.
More often than not I wake up really tired. I feel better after getting up and moving but I should wake refreshed not tired.
I also have noted more signs of adrenal fatigue particularly being very cold until eating since moving towards one large meal a day. As a result of this I've made an effort to have three smaller meals a day the past couple days which really helped with this (I'm actually really hot most of the time which is still better than cold).
I've been craving fruits lately so I figured I'd give in and have some tonight but they didn't have the figs or cherries I was craving so eh...
Maybe I'll give a bit of raw honey a shot with my fat/meat tonight and see how that goes.

[djr_81]

So I had some brisket, suet, and some honey drizzled on top of it. I'm glad others can enjoy it this way but it's definitely not for me.
The fat did help cut the problems with the honey when I ate it but I'm still having the typical spacey reaction to an influx of carbs.
Not worth it but it'll be another learning experience.

[KD]

I don't think you are missing out on that one. If I'm trying honey I usually just dab my finger into the thick stuff, and it that small ammount still tastes funky to me with meat. It might potentially be the brand and whether its truly unheated, or just the fact that it is honey, so I would still encourage you to test out the other carbs. Might have to wait on cherries and figs though.

[djr_81]

The honey I had was from a local supplier who has a stand at one of our farmer's markets. Unheated & unfiltered, wildflower mix with quite a bit of Clover in it I think (by taste). I used to adore honey too but it's unpleasantly sweet and cloying now.

FWIW I had some berries we had in the fridge; raspberries and blackberries. They were ok but there's an unpleasant aftertaste which must be what someone else (KD?) mentioned in a post before. Blech.

We're growing fruit plants this year (blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, and cherries) so I'll get the best produce I can when they're fruiting.

[djr_81]

My wife's step-mother passed away Sunday night.
She had been dealing with diabetes for a long time and eventually they had to take one of her legs ~6 weeks ago. It never healed right, got an infection, and she eventually grew tired of fighting it and had them stop her daily dialysis. It didn't take long after that for her to go.
As a result of this my wife is pretty shaken up emotionally. I've been doing really good to not get caught up in most emotions around me since going RAF but I still do it with my wife. What this all leads to was last night we did some "emotional eating". We stopped at a more upscale supermarket to find goodies. I'm too conscious of what I'm putting in my body now so it ended up being a bunch of fruit (mostly tropical) and some cheese (unfortunately not raw).

Let's see, I had...
-A small papaya. It was ok but I definitely wouldn't bother again.
-A passion fruit. I really enjoyed this one. Tiny amount of flesh inside but it had a pleasant sweet/sour flavor and the crunch of the seeds was nice.
-A guava. Very starchy and not that tasty. Another I have no desire to eat again.
-A cherimoya. Wow. Very, very tasty fruit. I wish I had known about these before when I used to eat fruit regularly. Also, I don't know if you're supposed to eat the fruit's skin but I did and that was nice too.
-A prickly pear cactus fruit. This was weird. A lot like a mild watermelon but with lots of seeds. It was ok but again another I'm not craving another.
-6oz of blackberries. Had a funky flavor again. I think I'm done with commercial blackberries since they are so hit and miss.
-6oz of blueberries. Some of tasty blueberry flavor but I could definitely tell they were out of season. Again, not worth buying the commercial product.
-A black plum. They looked tasty and I found a ripe one so I gave it a shot. Pretty good plum but I can't help thinking of everything involved in getting me a mediocre piece of fruit. I'm going to buy some once they're in season locally but wouldn't buy at a store again.
-Some applewood smoked gruyere. Very tasty cheese. I don't regret eating it at all.
-Some muenster cheese. Nice with the fruit as it's softer but it wasn't the best on it's own. A shame as it used to be one of my favorite cheeses.

I ate like a glutton and ended up feeling the most full I have since starting RAF. I definitely overdid it but I don't regret it.
Surprisingly I did not exhibit any of the typical allergic reactions I used to in the past. Maybe my system is clean enough and my gut is healed up enough that I could handle something like this very infrequently.
So I'm dealing with some brain fog this morning, a bit of stomach rumbling, and some malaise but not as bad a reaction as I expected.
I'm still going back to raw-carnivore after we get through all of this death/funeral stuff.

[djr_81]

I ate like a glutton and ended up feeling the most full I have since starting RAF. I definitely overdid it but I don't regret it.
Surprisingly I did not exhibit any of the typical allergic reactions I used to in the past. Maybe my system is clean enough and my gut is healed up enough that I could handle something like this very infrequently.
So I'm dealing with some brain fog this morning, a bit of stomach rumbling, and some malaise but not as bad a reaction as I expected.

I definitely regret it by this point.
That post was made Monday night when I didn't have much of a reaction occurring.
Tuesday the brain fog was really bad and I had some strong itchiness on my skin. I also had a progressively more disturbed stomach throughout the day. Lastly I had nasal stuffiness and a light sore throat by Tuesday night.
Yesterday was the worst though. Real bad stomach pain with lots of trips to the bathroom. I also had overwhelming nausea throughout the day to the point I couldn't eat or drink anything because I knew it wouldn't stay down. I went to be early and slept it off.
This morning I have a bit of nose stuffiness and a bit of stomach pain but the nausea was gone and I've got a meal in me.
I'm done with the gorging. I'm also done with any testing of fruits, etc. for a while. No mas.

[William]

Am I right in guessing that the fruit was not organic?

[djr_81]

Am I right in guessing that the fruit was not organic?

Some was and some wasn't.
The temperate fruit (berries and plums) were organic but the tropical fruits were all regular fruit.

[djr_81]

I've got an interesting anecdotal comment to ponder.

I had a deviated septum at birth (still got it) and as a result I've got a very high and narrow palate. During my teenage years the orthodontist had 7 of my teeth removed (4 "baby" teeth and 3 "adult") in order to install a palate widening device. It was essentially a pair of metal clips around two upper molars which was connected to a permanent retainer with a cog=like wheel in the center. Every night I'd have to take the key and fit it into a hole in the cog and turn it 1/2 turn to progressively widen my palette; talk about medieval torture devices. After they widened my palette enough they took out the device and installed braces. Things were ok for a year or two but eventually things most returned to where they were.
Anyways, my mother has multiple times now asked if I had toothaches as my cheeks are puffier than they used to be. Curiously my teeth/jaws have been pain-free with no aches since going RAF. It seems that my palette may be widening itself, even if just a bit.

[PaleoPhil]

... It seems that my palette may be widening itself, even if just a bit.

Fascinating. RawZi reported the same thing...

RawZi

Re: Vegetarians are really Starchitarians!
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2009, 06:03:25 AM »

   ...  About four years ago I started eating (raw) meat.  As a result my jaw got broader, my back got broader, I got taller, may waist and tummy got slimmer and my colon started working for the first time in nine years.

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/vegetarians-are-really-starchitarians!/msg19286/#msg19286

Anyone else experience widening of the jaw on raw meats?

I blogged about deviated septum a while ago here: http://ancestrallifestyle.blogspot.com/2008/05/while-viewing-image-of-deviated-septum.html

[djr_81]

Still recovering from the fruit. I estimate I set my recovery back by at least a month, perhaps more, by continuing to eat the carbs like I did. Hindsight's a bitch.

Another interesting observation from last week. Last Sunday (not yesterday) I was grilling burgers for my wife and they smelled so good that I took the grassfed ribs I had in the fridge and tossed them on the grill. What a lackluster experience. The fat tastes so horrible when it's been cooked I'll never bother doing that again. Next time we go out to eat I'll give the grilled wild rainbow trout filet another shot and see if it's as good as last time but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

On another topic I'd like some input from everyone.
I'm a project manager for an architectural firm. We do healthcare work exclusively so I'm in hospitals all the time. I also attend numerous construction meetings; sometimes in suits sometimes more casual. I've been wearing a pair of slip on Teva shoes (Like these but brown) but the bottom tread has come off and they're starting to look ratty.
I have a pair of black Vibram KSOs (http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/products_KSO_m.cfm) which I run in as well as wear all weekend long. I love how they fit and don't look forward to changing shoes when the work week begins. I'm considering a pair of black Vibram KSO Treks (http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/products_kso_trek_m.cfm) for work. I don't care if people stare, etc. but I want to see if you guys think this would cause problems in a professional setting. FWIW I'm almost definitely going to take the plunge and do it but I wanted some feedback. Thanks.

[KD]

If you don't really care, and exude that, I think people will only be interested. It does seem to be unprofessional, but if you can get away with sneaks and such...I don't see why the response would be negative per se but I do think people will think its weird and you will be the weird feet guy. What does the wife say? Maybe you could design some kind of fake shell of a hard shoe to sit on top. hehe. People wear those horrible crocs so if anyone gives you any limp just say your doc recommended them.

[djr_81]

What does the wife say?

She's the one who's been pushing me to get new shoes. I'd just wear my old ones until they break but she thinks they look too battered and wants me to get new ones.
When I broached the topic of the Vibram shoes she kind of rolled her eyes and said "Do what you want" so she's obviously not a big fan of the idea. I considered both a pair of Feelmax shoes (Panka or Niesa) or a pair of Terra Barefoot shoes (Aqua?). I'd consider some of Terra's other shoes outside the barefoot line as well like the Claudius or the Button.
The regular Terra shoes look the most professional but I'm wary unless I know how the sole feels and how it fits my foot (I'm a size 13-14 depending on the vendor; a wider toe box allows a 13). The Feelmax seem to be completely out as they run narrow. I know I fit a size M45 Vibram shoe like a glove which is why I'm leaning that way even though they are very unconventional.

[William]

Last Sunday (not yesterday) I was grilling burgers for my wife and they smelled so good that I took the grassfed ribs I had in the fridge and tossed them on the grill. What a lackluster experience. The fat tastes so horrible when it's been cooked I'll never bother doing that again.

Just a guess, but either your sense of taste has become keener (heat-created toxins!) or the ribs were not really grass-finished.

Re: shoon. I once wore flip-flops to a business meeting with a senior federal civil servant. It did not go well.

[KD]

I guess it would depend on how one dresses as well. The latter ones are more business-like but are still hybrids of such as far as style so might even seem moire awkward with certain types of casual clothing or rigid formal clothing. If you dress more casual, I would probably go for the other models. They all seem to be a bit pricey, but if your other vibrams are wearing down too, maybe consider getting both and testing the waters with the vibrams from time to time. Maybe mixing it up it wouldn't be as 'strange'.

correction: I meant to say 'give you any lip' but I guess it came out somewhat freudian.

[actionhero]

Anyone else experience widening of the jaw on raw meats?

I can confirm this. I feel more power in my jaw now. It is also more defined like the jawlines male models have.

[Josh]

I can confirm this. I feel more power in my jaw now. It is also more defined like the jawlines male models have.

Interesting...how long did that take?

[actionhero]

Interesting...how long did that take?

Eating raw meat for 6 months now. I'm quite certain it has to do with increased testosterone levels.

[Josh]

Cool. May also have to do with relaxation of the masseter and pterygoid muscles in the jaw. I'll be interested to see whether me jaw gets all manly and that.