Teeth Recovering on RAF

[Python]

Anyone else notice that previously damaged teeth were recovering on an RAF diet?

I swear that damage from braces and unintentional etching on my teeth are recovering in that the past etching seems to have filled in, my teeth don't have any plaque problems anymore, and they're no longer sensitive like they were were when I was raw vegan.

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, I've had some pits and grooves fill in on my teeth, though I still have defects. My teeth feel like ivory that has just been polished by the hygienist every day now.

I also had a big, visible hole all the way to the root in one of my teeth that was very painful if I didn't take prescription fluoride regularly. I no longer need fluoride and this hole is mostly filled in now.

My teeth are also firmer and straighter and my gums are healthier looking and don't bleed nearly as much.

Lex's teeth also firmed and his jaw bone density increased on his dental x-rays.

[chasmyn]

This thread makes me SO happy. I am now concentrating on remineralizing my son's teeth through diet and have been leaning heavily toward adding raw meats and raw fats. I am working on finding a source for raw pastured butter and cream, as they seem scarce around here.

[TylerDurden]

I got excellent teeth after getting rid of all (raw and pasteurised) dairy years ago. They were incredibly loose(with bleeding gums) during those times I still consumed dairy, but as soon as I cut out the dairy, my teeth became incredibly strong.

[William]

I am working on finding a source for raw pastured butter and cream, as they seem scarce around here.

Raw dairy is forbidden in Canada by law; any farmer known to sell or give such will lose the farm and end up on welfare in a stinking city after jail time.
Except in Quebec, where it is possible to find raw cheese.
You may drink the raw milk of a cow/goat/sheep only if you own it, AFAIK.

[SkinnyDevil]

Now if there were on;y a cure for clumsy dentists. Way back when I was a kid, the dentist smoothed out a chipped tooth (against my wishes, as I thought t chipped tooth looked cool - hahaha!) and then decided, while he was at it, to take the liberty of filing down my rather large canines.

Now the canines are flat.

[Python]

Wow, that's really stupid. Why the hell would a dentist do that? I had a tooth that was filed down after it was chipped but they ended up making it sharper so I can't say I really mind.

At some point I just have to wonder what all the sugar craze is about. People have moved away eating foods that are actually what their bodies are made of and eat foods that are high in energy but incapable of building or replacing the materials of the body and it's really interesting how many of the degenerative diseases of the body will recover when you just put back the stuff the body is made of into the body.

[PaleoPhil]

This thread makes me SO happy. I am now concentrating on remineralizing my son's teeth through diet and have been leaning heavily toward adding raw meats and raw fats. I am working on finding a source for raw pastured butter and cream, as they seem scarce around here.

Like Tyler, my dental health improved greatly without dairy, and in my area grassfed suet is more readily available and cheaper than raw butter and other dairy fats, so in some areas it is possible to build up and maintain dental health on animal body fats without any dairy fats.

[SuperInfinity2]

I find that the best way remineralize teeth is to stick to the fruitarian aspect of the raw paleo diet and forget about RAF entirely. I eat fish and eggs sometimes [I did today), but in general you're better off having animal protein cooked if at all, mainly due to parasites etc.

The only catch is that you have to supplement calcium + magnesium and it might be a good idea to use vitamin d as well. This is because your teeth in all likelihood grew too much from the start. Then use a mouthwash about twice a day and brush once and your teeth will remineralize.
 
While I'm well aware that RAF and this idea of humans going off hunting in bands excitedly has captured the imagination and admiration of many folk here, I feel some people need a sharp dose of reality. Fruit is incontestably the food of choice for all apes, nearly all primates in fact. Fruitarianism is a lot closer to the reality of what paleo man actually took until around the neolithic period [which is when life expectency dropped to 20, incidentally).

Wooh!!! Look at me, I have the highest level of forager and just made one post!!!

[PaleoPhil]

Hi SuperInfinity version 2.0. Did you have your dental checkup yet? My next one's coming up.

I find that the best way remineralize teeth is to stick to the fruitarian aspect of the raw paleo diet and forget about RAF entirely. I eat fish and eggs sometimes [I did today), but in general you're better off having animal protein cooked if at all, mainly due to parasites etc.

The only catch is that you have to supplement calcium + magnesium and it might be a good idea to use vitamin d as well.

Even better, on RAF my teeth remineralized without having to use those supplements.

This is because your teeth in all likelihood grew too much from the start.

Grew too much?

Then use a mouthwash about twice a day and brush once and your teeth will remineralize.

I don't need mouthwash on RAF--I only use it the morning after eating some carbs on social occasions or as an alternative to brushing if I don't need a brush.
 

I feel some people need a sharp dose of reality.

Spare us the lectures please.

Fruit is incontestably the food of choice for all apes, nearly all primates in fact.

Not true. The mountain gorilla is one of the great apes and only 2% of  its diet was found to be fruit, whereas 86% was leaves, shoots and stems (see http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/gorilla/diet.htm).

Don't forget that tarsiers are obligate faunivores. All primates eat some fauna and every human society ever studied ate some fauna. So the only food choice that is foreign to humanity is eating only flora. It has no historical precedent among any complete human or nonhuman primate society of any significant size.

[SuperInfinity2]

Hi SuperInfinity version 2.0. Did you have your dental checkup yet? My next one's coming up.

I did, and he said I just needed a little bit of work on one of my teeth. He used some lingo I can't recall but I think the main gist of it was that the teeth/nerves were actually growing too much! They were growing into each other and that's basically what was causing the pain.  

I admit I was really relieved when I heard that as I had said here that my teeth were bugging me a little bit, especially that one or two when brushing. So I started taking magnesium, which is rare in fruit and I started taking extra caution and using anti-septic mouthwash whenever I felt my teeth were getting a bit dirty. Within about a week of that all my tooth problems simply disappeared! I don't know whether it was the magnesium or the mouthwash, but my teeth are definitely going fine now.

Grew too much?

Yes, malformed and overextended from copious amounts of food and dairy when they were young. I believe that we are also too tall, we grew too much by use of artificial foods and hormones. That's why we need extra calcium&magnesium supplements articially. That's why people get skeleton injuries so often. Did you know that supercentarians are nearly always around five foot five or less??? And they didn't lose THAT amount of height in their lives.

Obviously Dr. Weston Price's book shows very clearly that many westerner's teeth are malformed, crooked, and so on. My teeth were growing crooked before I got braces. Many teeth grow HUGE, the teeth of indigenous tribes are small. How much more proof do you need?! Our teeth are not well-formed frankly. Some of these things need constant "maintainance" because of the permanent damage done to them.

Also: How can you be pro-RAF and yet anti-dairy? Would you not consider there to be a contradiction there? You can't just take the things that suit the idea RAF is good for you and leave out what doesn't appear to be healthy [even if it's tasty and indigenous tribes eat it). I eat whatever I like when I like, the only rule I try to follow is that I don't let others prepare it. I don't even bother trying to eat cruciferous vegetables I like anymore.

Not true. The mountain gorilla is one of the great apes and only 2% of  its diet was found to be fruit, whereas 86% was leaves, shoots and stems (see http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/gorilla/diet.htm).

Careful, look at what I said. I said it is the food of CHOICE. As in, they would eat it above all other foods if they could. For example, the neanderthals were primates and would have been great apes so obviously fruit would have been their food of choice. But as it was not abundant they had to try to rely on animal protein and went extinct. Fruit is not available easily in that region, so they have to make-do with other foods.

[cherimoya_kid]

How do you want it this time, SuperInfinity?  Slowly build up the level of disrespect in your posts until I ban you back to the depths of Hell, or just ban you immediately?

[SuperInfinity2]

Slow build-up please as I dislike shocks to my system.  

I do feel that we're all grown too big artificially. It explains so many things. I have no idea how calcium/magnesium works out on a RAF diet, but I'd wager you have to look for it to get it [especially the calcium). If you have to look for something and can't just eat "instinctively", then there's something amiss. Paleo man was not worried about calcium etc. Of course there's the extra vitamin b12 thing for vegans, I won't insult your intelligence by talking about all the arguments/explanations there. And I really would like an answer as to why it's okay to cut milk out on RAF, you'll probably say something like "organic, fresh, unpasteurised milk is a very good food, but not supermarket milk".... but that's not really the full reason.

[yon yonson]

ha, i dunno he's kinda funny to have around. i don't even know what he's talking about half the time but it always sounds ridiculous.

superinfinity2, i mean you just said yourself "If you have to look for something and can't just eat "instinctively", then there's something amiss." and in your previous post you have this to say about your fruitarian diet: "The only catch is that you have to supplement calcium + magnesium and it might be a good idea to use vitamin d as well." what are you smoking? can i have some?

[PaleoPhil]

Yeah, SI can be funny at times with his off-the-wall stuff, but it wasn't funny when SI#1 started to repeat himself and insult people, which I hope SI#2 won't do.

I did, and he said I just needed a little bit of work on one of my teeth. He used some lingo I can't recall but I think the main gist of it was that the teeth/nerves were actually growing too much! They were growing into each other and that's basically what was causing the pain.

I suspect that if you ask your dentist he'll explain that the problem wasn't that your teeth grew too much, but that they grew at the wrong angle or in the wrong place, resulting in them growing into each other instead of straight up, such as with impacted wisdom teeth.

Yes, malformed and overextended from copious amounts of food and dairy when they were young.

It sounds like you're talking about malocclusion, but I've never encountered someone calling it "growing too much" or "overextended" before.

That's why we need extra calcium&magnesium supplements articially.

My teeth are firming, indicating increasing bone density, without calcium supplements.

Many teeth grow HUGE, the teeth of indigenous tribes are small. How much more proof do you need?!

I suspect you were smiling when you wrote that one.

Also: How can you be pro-RAF and yet anti-dairy? Would you not consider there to be a contradiction there?

No, and I don't understand how people conflate the two. Cow's dairy is for baby cows. Human dairy is for baby humans. Adult mammals are not designed to continue eating dairy after weaning. No adult wild carnivore on earth consumes dairy as a staple food (especially given that most dairy foods, including even raw butter and raw cheese, are made using devices of some sort, such as butter churns). It's unnatural and accumulating scientific evidence indicates pasteurized dairy products have many negative effects on the humans who consume them.

Observant Hindus eat dairy but no beef. If you're consistent, then you would consider that a contradiction also, yes?

You can't just take the things that suit the idea RAF is good for you and leave out what doesn't appear to be healthy

1) Who made you diet dictocrat? I can do whatever I want. 2) Not all RAF dieters eat dairy. 3) I usually don't call myself RAF--I tend to call myself a mostly-raw carnivorous Paleo dieter with occasional cheating, or carnivorous RPD for short, or just RPD for simplicity.

I eat whatever I like when I like, the only rule I try to follow is that I don't let others prepare it.

I know. Yours is a diet movement of one. Did you upset the real raw fruitarians or raw vegans yet with your lack of adherence to their dictates?
 

Careful, look at what I said. I said it is the food of CHOICE. As in, they would eat it above all other foods if they could.

Choice is irrelevant to health. I might choose to eat ice cream if it's available to me, but that doesn't make it healthy.

[SuperInfinity2]

superinfinity2, i mean you just said yourself "If you have to look for something and can't just eat "instinctively", then there's something amiss." and in your previous post you have this to say about your fruitarian diet: "The only catch is that you have to supplement calcium + magnesium and it might be a good idea to use vitamin d as well." what are you smoking? can i have some?

lol... the thing that's amiss is neither diet, it's our teeth's formation. If paleo man had to be extra careful to eat any foods to get xyz without being in extreme pain for much of his life, then for me that means there's something amiss with our own physiology [or possibly non-food activity). Paleo man didn't make sure to take certain foods, he just took what he felt like and what was available and it wouldn't make evolutionary sense for him to be "wrong" about it. He would be perfectly adapted for that environment.    

I suspect that if you ask your dentist he'll explain that the problem wasn't that your teeth grew too much, but that they grew at the wrong angle or in the wrong place, resulting in them growing into each other instead of straight up, such as with impacted wisdom teeth.

Probably, the filling on that tooth was a bit strange from when he did it at first.

It sounds like you're talking about malocclusion, but I've never encountered someone calling it "growing too much" or "overextended" before.

I hadn't heard of that term before. You should know not to trust medical labels as being a guide for anything. Medicine tries to put a "symptoms => disease/condition => prognosis" scenario on everything when what's in between can cause an awful lot of problems: Just because there isn't a medical label on your teeth or bones does not mean there isn't something wrong with them!!!! It would also explain the rapid rise in height of homo sapiens.... in a nutshell there may not have been any: just refined foods and plenty of dairy in the modern world!!!

No, and I don't understand how people conflate the two. Cow's dairy is for baby cows. Human dairy is for baby humans. Adult mammals are not designed to continue eating dairy after weaning. No adult wild carnivore on earth consumes dairy as a staple food (especially given that most dairy foods, including even raw butter and raw cheese, are made using devices of some sort, such as butter churns). It's unnatural and accumulating scientific evidence indicates pasteurized dairy products have many negative effects on the humans who consume them.

The indigenous tribes drink it though all the time, just as sure as they eat eggs and animal flesh. I can't see how drinking an animal's blood and their milk are such different things from the perspective of evolution.

Observant Hindus eat dairy but no beef. If you're consistent, then you would consider that a contradiction also, yes?

Maybe if they're doing it from an evolutionary perspective. You could argue though that you can continue milking a cow while it's alive, not if you eat it!!!

1) Who made you diet dictocrat? I can do whatever I want. 2) Not all RAF dieters eat dairy. 3) I usually don't call myself RAF--I tend to call myself a mostly-raw carnivorous Paleo dieter with occasional cheating, or carnivorous RPD for short, or just RPD for simplicity.

You can do what you want, just don't expect me to believe you on how great your diet is when the evidence you're presenting works for other foods as well that you won't take!!!!...
 
 

Choice is irrelevant to health. I might choose to eat ice cream if it's available to me, but that doesn't make it healthy.

WRONG PaleoPhil. Ice-cream is a prepared food so it doesn't count. I'm talking about foods you'd find yourself in the wild. Humans are perfectly evolved to make optimal use of their environment for gaining food. Just like the evolution of the eye is hard to understand or imagine... it's the same with our taste. We want to eat whatever's best for us. Why would it be any other way? If it were then in two generations natural selection would have been wiping out the poor tasting guys. Our tastes and often extremely strong food desires are not just random nonsense, they are extremely well evolved to get the best food into our system. The only thing that can possibly mess it up is cooking or other modern processing of food.

[PaleoPhil]

The indigenous tribes drink it though all the time, just as sure as they eat eggs and animal flesh. I can't see how drinking an animal's blood and their milk are such different things from the perspective of evolution.

Are you defending dairy consumption? Why do you avoid dairy, or if you consume it, why do you do so?

You can do what you want, just don't expect me to believe you on how great your diet is when the evidence you're presenting works for other foods as well that you won't take!!!!...

I don't expect you to, and perhaps you should follow your own advice and not expect others to believe you on how great your diet is.

I'm talking about foods you'd find yourself in the wild.

If you're talking about me, then I've found that I do far better on raw meats and animal fats than I do on raw fruits, as I've mentioned numerous times. I take your word for it that you do better on raw fruits and don't know why you haven't taken my word for it that I do better on raw meats and animal fats.

[TylerDurden]

This 2nd incarnation has been banned. Also, please do not feed trolls.

[RawZi]

Now if there were on;y a cure for clumsy dentists. Way back when I was a kid, the dentist smoothed out a chipped tooth (against my wishes, as I thought t chipped tooth looked cool - hahaha!) and then decided, while he was at it, to take the liberty of filing down my rather large canines.

Now the canines are flat.

    Unfortunately, I've had more than one dentist who was like that, and it started when I was single digit age and my family had "better things" to be concerned about, for the most part.  I guess most adults have grown up to bow to any doctor no matter his unruly actions or lies, to one degree or another.

   This thread makes me SO happy. I am now concentrating on remineralizing my son's teeth through diet and have been leaning heavily toward adding raw meats and raw fats. I am working on finding a source for raw pastured butter and cream, as they seem scarce around here.

   I widened my jaw and gave more room for my teeth.  My teeth then moved a little to be less crowded and in slightly better position.  This all happened for me dietwise by dropping veganism completely, and instead doing highest raw fat fermented pasture grazed dairy and egg yolks as possible percentage-wise.  I combined my foods according to the Primal Diet, using minute amounts fruit, unheated honey and flesh foods.

[Ayla]

Hi ya'all;

I was raw vegan for almost 5 years; 85-100%. It did some good, in the beginning but the longer I stayed on it, the wors it got. Today; I miss seven teeth. Had severe pains in my gums; bleeding.... If I had only known. All those days and nights of wondering; 'why?' - I eat so darn healthy!'
How is it possible to detox ones teeth on a preferably healthy raw vegan diet with fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, sprouts, oil, sesame seed mylk (allergic to almonds to this very day), green smoothies, etc. How come my bowel always answered with rumbling noice and diarrea?

Today, my body simply crave animal fats in huge amounts to keep my mouth pain- and free of bleeding. Today I need raw meeat to simply function and keep my weight stable (I'll get back to that in other forums with pictures later) and also;all this I need to keep my belly qalm and happy!

Life is simply beautiful! 

[Inger]

Hi Ayla!

Skönt att träffa en svenska här!

I´v experienced the same somehow. It looks like Vegan Rawfood really hurt your teeht(and your intestines..). I was newer Vegan, but high fruit/vegs. And I really feel that fat and Wild Meet helps a lot for my gums. Even Flaxseeds. Strange. Me too have been thinking about if it is "detoxing your teeth" or something else..?? Maybe somthing is missing?
I really dont understand.
Here in Hamburg I met a Woman last week on a Raw-Vegan Potluck, and she is really bad off. Looks like a skeleton. Now she wants me to help her, because she sed she thinks I look helthy and she cannot stand it anymore. Even if she knows I eat meat. She is 100% raw-vegan for three years and eat a lot of Wild edibles. A lot. And all kind of nice stuff like Young Coconuts and Durian. It doesn´t seems to help. And there are a lot of them out there. I´m not sure I can help her.. For sure I will suggest, she have to eat meat etc. But I dont know if it really helps anymore. She is really bloated all the time. Sad.
I´m so happy I was never Vegan. So I have all my teehts still. But some Cavietes I have. But they dont hurt so I just leave it like it is.   And my teeth feels almost nice.

Ayla, I´m so happy you are well now.

How old are you, if I may ask? I´m 33 years old.

Kram,
Inger

[ys]

My gums are progressively receding, don't bleed, not inflamed, just receding.  I stopped eating bread and dairy.  Do not eat many acidic fruits.  Have not transitioned to raw meat-fat yet.  Will gradually try it.


I like Durian, have not had it in a long time but there is nothing like it on earth, if can stand the smell.

[van]

receding gums are often a reflection of bone loss.  Bone loss in the jaw structure can also come from gum pockets harboring unhealthy bacteria, that feed on sugars/carbs.  The acids these bacteria not only cause carries but also attach tissue structures and subsequently bone. 

[chasmyn]

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Here in BC we can have cow shares. I have found an expensive source for raw milk and butter here now, and lots of the organic cheeses are apparently made with raw milk (I find those even in the grocery store, I'm just not sure if they're grassfed). At the farmers market they were telling me that they can sell raw cheeses, but they're required to be aged for a year.

Raw dairy is forbidden in Canada by law; any farmer known to sell or give such will lose the farm and end up on welfare in a stinking city after jail time.
Except in Quebec, where it is possible to find raw cheese.
You may drink the raw milk of a cow/goat/sheep only if you own it, AFAIK.

[RawZi]

    I got a three years aged cow cheese a couple of times from Quebec.  It was ambiguously labeled.  They say it is raw, but heated enough to kill bacteria.  Doesn't sound raw to me.  It also has salt in it, which kills the healthy bacteria in cheese.  I would imagine this place might be good instead:
Becancour: Fromagerie L'Ancetre, 1615 boul de Port-Royal, Becancour, QC , G9H 1X7, (819) 233-9157. http://www.ctidirectory.com/search/company.cfm?company=60965
as you have to be in Quebec to get it.  The one I got was imported to the US and I got it in a healthfood co-op.  I didn't buy it for myself.  I know cow is supposed to work better than goat, but I don't care what kind of mammal my cheese comes from, I look more for no salt added to the cheese, especially when it comes to tooth health.

    Hard raw cheeses are supposed to serve better health purpose than soft.  I'm not sure why.  I do know some places that sell raw hard cheeses pasteurize their soft cheeses.