Compromise

[Dead Is the New Alive]

Greetings.

Unlike you, I am not a raw meat carnivore, so you might wonder why I chose to post what I will here. The answer is simple, just let me rephrase: I am not a raw meat carnivore - but not by choice. You see, where I come from, raw is not an option. More accurately - I suppose - grass-fed is not an option. I don't suppose any single one of you would dare consume the 'industry standard' raw either.

Therefore, what I ask is you put yourself in my place. What would you do, knowing full well the benefits of an exclusively raw meat diet?

Let's see then: I cook my meat in the oven - pour a tiniest bit of water in and you've no need for vegetable or any other fat/oil. I mostly consume chicken - 1 to 2 kiloes a day - usually the entire bird minus the head. I try to cram in as much beef as I can, but it's really expensive, so I'm mostly stuck with chicken and cooked eggs - well, I do get to eat a moderate amount of fish though. Also, I eat green vegetables such as kale and broccoli every other day.

That is all really...

... Well alright - except for the chocolate. I know, I know, but I would probably die without it. Addicted or not - irrelevant - I *want* this addiction. I eat a proper 70+ almost every day... Sometimes twice. I think I believe, in a way, that it's a... direct interface to God.

Uh. Right.

I would really appreciate your help with this matter.

[wodgina]

All you need is a credit card and the phone number for Slankers

[TylerDurden]

I've actually heard of a few people recovering after eating only (raw) low-quality grainfed meat for ages. It makes sense if you think about it, as raw meat, even from grainfed cattle, will have fewer heat-created toxins than a cooked version thereof.

[William]

Greetings.

Unlike you, I am not a raw meat carnivore, so you might wonder why I chose to post what I will here. The answer is simple, just let me rephrase: I am not a raw meat carnivore - but not by choice. You see, where I come from, raw is not an option. More accurately - I suppose - grass-fed is not an option. I don't suppose any single one of you would dare consume the 'industry standard' raw either.

Therefore, what I ask is you put yourself in my place. What would you do, knowing full well the benefits of an exclusively raw meat diet?

http://www.eatwild.com/
And if you ask around (doctors of naturopathy, chiroparactors, vegetarian health food stores) There could be a local farmer who has grass-finished beef.
I found one such, and the meat is cheaper than the commercial stuff.

[Dead Is the New Alive]

All you need is a credit card and the phone number for Slankers

Exactly, that's all I need - and all I'll never have. Well alright, I suppose I *could* get the phone number, but I wouldn't really be able to use it for anything beyond prank calls. Uh, let's just say mail order is not at all an option.

And if you ask around (doctors of naturopathy, chiroparactors, vegetarian health food stores) There could be a local farmer who has grass-finished beef.
I found one such, and the meat is cheaper than the commercial stuff.

Trust me William, there's nothing as such where I am from. I might as well ask for unicorn steaks, and what's worse, I'd probably get them, or rather, find a person shamelessly claiming to sell them -- grass-fed and all.

I've actually heard of a few people recovering after eating only (raw) low-quality grainfed meat for ages. It makes sense if you think about it, as raw meat, even from grainfed cattle, will have fewer heat-created toxins than a cooked version thereof.

Well first off, the kind I have available is lower than low quality. I don't know to what extent they go (hormones in concentrate, hormone injections, etc.), all I really know is what kind of people they are and that's worse than simply immoral - they are the kind of people who think all of that 'doesn't matter' and never even consider the consequences of their actions. What can I say? I'll move -- one day.

Second, as stated, I'm mostly stuck with chicken. The prefered raw as I see is by and large beef and I have a severely limited access to it - around a kilo a week. The lack of beef is why I resort to veggies in the first place - I just sincerely doubt I'll live a healthy life on chicken alone.

Finally, there's fish and I just simply flat out refuse to even consider eating raw fish. It's not the taste - hell, I love and even prefer the raw taste -- it's where the local fish live. Not sanitary at all. Not one bit.

So there you have it.

[djr_81]

Exactly, that's all I need - and all I'll never have. Well alright, I suppose I *could* get the phone number, but I wouldn't really be able to use it for anything beyond prank calls. Uh, let's just say mail order is not at all an option.

He was under the mistaken assumption you were located in the US as that's what your profile shows (I assume it's the forum default).
I assume you are somewhere else as you keep referring to your meat in kilos.
Where do you live so we can try to help you a bit easier?

[Dead Is the New Alive]

He was under the mistaken assumption you were located in the US as that's what your profile shows (I assume it's the forum default).
I assume you are somewhere else as you keep referring to your meat in kilos.
Where do you live so we can try to help you a bit easier?

I am from Serbia.

[djr_81]

I am from Serbia.

And therein lies our problem; people have been trying to pass advice along which would be useful if you were in the United States but is, alas, mostly useless given where you are.

Beef may be expensive and more difficult to find but how is the availability of meats such as lamb or goat? These would be fine to subsist on and would perhaps be cheaper than the beef available to you.
Depending on where you live, whether in a city or a rural area, you could also supplement with wild game. If you could manage to kill a deer it could feed you for months.

I would listen to the advice on grainfed meat. Raw grainfed is still better for you than the cooked meats you are ingesting now and should not be immediately struck down just because it's inferior to grassfed. I'd give it a shot and see how you do on it.

I wouldn't touch the fish either if the water is unclean.

I will admit I don't know much about Serbian cuisine but the Wikipedia stub does list some fermented vegetables products. Perhaps you could ferment some things raw rather than just consuming fresh. I'm sure others could elaborate on this (I have no firsthand knowledge on fermentation).

[TylerDurden]

I can believe that there's no organic meat industry in Serbia. Apparently, Eastern/Southeastern Europe is very bad re that, BUT I refuse to believe that there are no grassfed meats available. It's physically impossible. Now, I'll grant that there's probably no "official" grassfed industry but there will , inevitably, be a number of small-time farmers here and there who feed their animals only on grass and who (inadvertently) obey most or all of the standard organic laws re vaccination, but who won't feel the need to mention that their animals are grassfed unless you ask. I've seen this in Italy where the organic/grassfed  meat industry is practically nonexistent, yet I'm able to get hold of decent sources of grassfed horsemeat.

[Dead Is the New Alive]

beef may be expensive and more difficult to find but how is the availability of meats such as lamb or goat? These would be fine to subsist on and would perhaps be cheaper than the beef available to you.

Lamb and horse are widely available, though just as expensive as beef. I eat all three, though rarely due to price.

Depending on where you live, whether in a city or a rural area, you could also supplement with wild game. If you could manage to kill a deer it could feed you for months.

Oh, no no no. I live in the heart of the city, but lack of experience is the least of issues here. Though abundant in the past, they a rare sight nowadays - wild animals and derivatives of the modern Occidental culture just do not mix. Whatever hunters are left mostly go for pheasant and a rare boar.

Now, considering this situation, I'd never kill a deer. I do not deserve to. Now, if I did or planned to do anything to secure their survival, I'd consider the option, but as is - no.

I would listen to the advice on grainfed meat. Raw grainfed is still better for you than the cooked meats you are ingesting now and should not be immediately struck down just because it's inferior to grassfed. I'd give it a shot and see how you do on it.

Look, uh, I wouldn't. 'Grainfed' is just an assumption, who knows what they actually eat.

The thing is, there is just no love and respect for the animal whatsoever. There is no connection to the land, ultimately, there is not self-respect in Serbia. I hate to throw such wide proclamations, but they simply apply. I won't elaborate on whys and hows as it won't do much help to truly relate anyhow - just take my word on it. People shit where they eat here and if it's shit I eat, I'd rather it cooked at least. Precaution.

I will admit I don't know much about Serbian cuisine but the Wikipedia stub does list some fermented vegetables products. Perhaps you could ferment some things raw rather than just consuming fresh. I'm sure others could elaborate on this (I have no firsthand knowledge on fermentation).

I'm not sure I follow. What exactly do I have to accomplish by fermenting vegetables? Easier digestion?

I can believe that there's no organic meat industry in Serbia. Apparently, Eastern/Southeastern Europe is very bad re that, BUT I refuse to believe that there are no grassfed meats available. It's physically impossible. Now, I'll grant that there's probably no "official" grassfed industry but there will , inevitably, be a number of small-time farmers here and there who feed their animals only on grass and who (inadvertently) obey most or all of the standard organic laws re vaccination, but who won't feel the need to mention that their animals are grassfed unless you ask. I've seen this in Italy where the organic/grassfed  meat industry is practically nonexistent, yet I'm able to get hold of decent sources of grassfed horsemeat.

Friend, you are small-time - horsemeat? As stated, I regularly eat unicorn. Delicious.

Jokes aside - I've already said this to William - there is no grassfed anything here. Perhaps, small chance, somewhere, out there in the mountains, but for sale? No. The fact that they'll all claim otherwise holds little water to me as I've no reason whatsoever to trust them. They've uttered lies worse than that.

[Raw Kyle]

To answer your question, I think that eating cooked meat and veggies is your best bet. Do a cooked paleolithic diet. I don't want to preach to you, but there probably are other choices out there. Like raising your own animals or simply moving to a different location. They may not be what you want, but nevertheless they are "possible."

[chasmyn]

Fermented veggies for better digestion, yes, and to feed your gut the best bacteria, to keep you healthy. I'd say try and get as many raw fermented veggies in with your cooked meats to aid in healing. And keep making your plans to move somewhere with real food. 

[Dead Is the New Alive]

To answer your question, I think that eating cooked meat and veggies is your best bet.

That is exactly what I am doing.

... Well, there is the chocolate too.

Fermented veggies for better digestion, yes, and to feed your gut the best bacteria, to keep you healthy. I'd say try and get as many raw fermented veggies in with your cooked meats to aid in healing.

The fermented vegetables in Serbian cuisine that djr_81 noted are actually just pickled in vinegar. I don't think any bacteria can survive in that, and plus, I value my teeth too much to regularly expose them to something so acidic. I'm intrigued, but I do hope you had something else in mind.

And keep making your plans to move somewhere with real food.

That's a given - the food is the least of motivators.

[RawZi]

    Would you be able to ferment the vegetables on your own?  It's not that hard to do.  I've even used non-organically grown cabbage for it when I had to.  It worked pretty well.  You can make recipes resembling your national cuisine, and no one will be the wiser.

[Dead Is the New Alive]

    Would you be able to ferment the vegetables on your own?  It's not that hard to do.

I... think so?

I do not quite follow, how is this done exactly?

[RawZi]

    Make "Vegie-kraut" in the style of Ann Wigmore or you could read Sandor Katz' book: Wild Fermentation.  Grate a combination of fifty percent by weight cabbage to other firm vegetables.  Pound it it a barrel with a two by four to get it juicy.  Alternatively you could just run the vegetables through a Champion brand food processor. Leave it in a glass or otherwise impervious pot/container.  Cover with a cabbage leaf or two. Place a small plate on top.  The put a heavy weight, maybe a medium to large stone on top of that.  Cover with a bag.  Leave to ferment under the kitchen counter.  It the weather is hot, it may be ready in two days.  If the weather is cool, it may take as long as a week to ferment.  Place in glass containers in the refrigerator.  It stays good a long time. Since you are cooking your meat, the risk you are running is as in the old days which was called scurvy.  Captain James Cook learned to protect his sailors by serving fermented cabbage at every meal: http://transportationhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/captain_james_cook__page_2_

[Dead Is the New Alive]

    Make "Vegie-kraut" in the style of Ann Wigmore or you could read Sandor Katz' book: Wild Fermentation.  Grate a combination of fifty percent by weight cabbage to other firm vegetables.  Pound it it a barrel with a two by four to get it juicy.  Alternatively you could just run the vegetables through a Champion brand food processor. Leave it in a glass or otherwise impervious pot/container.  Cover with a cabbage leaf or two. Place a small plate on top.  The put a heavy weight, maybe a medium to large stone on top of that.  Cover with a bag.  Leave to ferment under the kitchen counter.  It the weather is hot, it may be ready in two days.  If the weather is cool, it may take as long as a week to ferment.  Place in glass containers in the refrigerator.  It stays good a long time. Since you are cooking your meat, the risk you are running is as in the old days which was called scurvy.  Captain James Cook learned to protect his sailors by serving fermented cabbage at every meal: http://transportationhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/captain_james_cook__page_2_

Thanks a lot. Will do.

I do have a question though - you make it sound like cabbage is a must. Cabbage is fine for me once in a while, but seeing as it is a goitrogen and I am hypothyroid, you'll understand that I can do without it. So will the recipe, uh, 'work', without cabbage?

[Raw Kyle]

Thanks a lot. Will do.

I do have a question though - you make it sound like cabbage is a must. Cabbage is fine for me once in a while, but seeing as it is a goitrogen and I am hypothyroid, you'll understand that I can do without it. So will the recipe, uh, 'work', without cabbage?

yes