The social side of you?

[Inger]

Hi Ioanna

I always tell stright out how I eat. I just say; I eat ewerything raw, thats feeling nice to me!
And I never, ever hade any negative responses on that. I have the feeling, guys like it, they always find it so funny and intresting. And Im never ashamed for it, though. Why should I? I even eat raw organs in front of people, why not. They eat their burgers & co.
And so funny things always comes out...hihi. Yeah. Really funny. Lets see it with humor . But I think, while they see how healthy and happy I am, they can only find it good, how I eat. So it is, I think..

When I go out im restaurants or for a date, we eat sashimi, tartar, carpaccio, some salad, or I order my steak raw. Just unfried, cold. It works fine! Only one time out of maybe 20, the waitress did not wanted to follow my order. She was afraid of "bad bakteria"   So she refused.. But this was only once.


Oh, and if I go to a party or something like that, I just take some food with me in my (large..hihi) bag. Some pieces of meat, or so. And just eat them out of my bag like it was the most normal thing in the world. And when people ask, I just tell... And it always turn out so funny..

[Ioanna]

Thanks so much everyone who posted!, it's given me much confidence to just be me.

GS, there is nothing wrong with his approach, I wouldn't change anything about him... it just doesn't give me room to hide (eat!). Then falling into what Tyler was saying.  Otherwise I'd probably adore the attention.

RK, that's good that she already knew, though you probably wouldn't have had a problem telling her anyway I bet. And she wants to try too!

Inger, thanks for your post!... that was inspiring

okay, I'm going to be honest... I'm not sure when, but I will... soon!

[PaleoPhil]

...I've never had a girl balk at my diet, from vegetarian through raw vegan to raw meat.

I have. One lady friend scolded me with "You're killing yourself," among other criticisms, because of the plentiful raw meat and animal fat I'm eating. A female relative said similar things on multiple occasions. I haven't had a guy give me grief over it yet (unless you count people in forums like SuperInfinity )--only chuckling or a good-natured ribbing or two followed by admissions that I'm looking better.

I've tried to keep track of those people I've helped through sharing info, or via my good example, or indirectly through others I've helped. My current tabulation is 11 male adults that have responded positively (and also 3 male and 1 female children, but they don't make most of their own food choices) and at least tried a more ancestral WOE themselves, vs. 6 female adults (I may have forgotten a few people). Over half a dozen or so people responded very negatively, and as I recall they were all female, for whatever reason. Another example was a lady who eats loads of carbs and feeds them to her emotionally troubled son. Someone told her that I had celiac disease and she loudly confronted me about it at a social occasion (her aggressiveness was partly explained by her having overindulged in wine). I explained that technically I have gluten intolerance rather than clinical celiac disease, but she brushed that off and proceeded to share with me her opinion that celiac disease is just an overblown fad rather than a real disease. When I didn't support her on this, she stormed off. I'm still a bit perplexed that she thought someone who has gluten intolerance would agree with her that it's worst manifestation is a myth, but I've since learned from others that the facts mean much less to her than her need to get her way.

One of the negative responders actually tried conventional Paleo and quickly felt much better as a result, but then she had a blood test that showed high LDL and total cholesterol. Her doctor didn't tell her about the difference between benign, large, fluffly LDL vs. small, dense LDL and didn't do some of the better tests available at that time, like C Reactive Protein (there are even better ones today, of course). He sent her into a panic and his nurse told her she would have to eat only unsavory foods that nobody likes but must force themselves to eat if they want to be healthy. She did a 180 and adopted a Dean Ornish diet and felt miserable again, but was convinced she was following a healthier diet and started to lecture me about how we don't need more than a tablespoon of fat a day. She had the only negative reaction after trying a more ancestral WOE, and it was largely due to misinformation, rather than actual negative health effects.

The rest of the social reactions I've gotten were in-between: from only mildly negative to indeterminate to positive but not interested in pursuing info about a more ancient WOE. Of course, it's possible that the female respondents were just more vocal or expressive of their disapproval.

[Ioanna]

I did it!!!!!... he was not phased in the least, lol.  now I'm a brave new person ... though, unfortunately, I'm not feeling the chemistry.. moving on...

[PaleoPhil]

Congrats on building up the courage to do it, and I'm glad you got a confidence boost out of it, Ionna! Sorry he didn't turn out to be a match for you, but you know the saying, "There are plenty of fish..."

Based on your and my experiences and the statistics on vegetarianism and the like, my guess is that few men will have a major problem with your eating of lots of raw meats.

[Ayla]

Luckily, I'm married and my family are used to me having odd ideas and practice them 

I also stopped being concered about what people might think of me, I always explaine that it is vital to my health to eat this way and if I stray; I get sick. Some people then think that it's in my imagination and I respond by giving them support from heavy scientific research, medical reports etc and always look them straight in their eye and also telling them that MY health is more important than some airy ideas about nutrition, diet soft drinks, crap food and additives etc. I know it sounds harsh but my family; cousins, aunts never think of ones personal wealth, only whats best out of tradition and what people might think of you, doing acting different. I do smile while talking with them but I've learnd to never back off. I've done that so many times before and for what? They never thank you for it or will make better friends with you...sorry guys, I KNOW it sounds awful, but again, sometimes you just cannot compromise...for whatever reason. I was given this insight for a reason and I will stick to it, no matter what my family says. My dear husband (yes, he is a darlin'!) told me to stop eat this way because it is to expensive. I replied, telling him what's better; a high medical bill, constant pain and mental brake down...and besides. Not all grass fed meat are that expensive. ONe HAS to look for it. More, I never eat crappy fast foods, drink beer, coke, strange imported juice, cheap sprayed fruits or berries, just some eggs, meat, fats, butters...and never grows tired of it... I live life as ment to be......

[PaleoPhil]

Yeah, my sister's husband complained about the cost too, and she made some compromises to save money, but I can tell it affected their health negatively, though at least they are still better off than when they were eating SAD.

How does a Swedish person such as yourself know to say the American slang of "darlin'"?   

[RawZi]

    I already had a significant other when I started eating this way.  One of the first responses was disbelief.  One of the next responses was thinking I suddenly for the first time in my life I wanted to hurt myself or gone crazy.  Very supportive of me though in it, and tonight even took me out for fish carpaccio.

    Ayla,  good to see you've found this place.

[TylerDurden]

If one practises Intermittent Fasting(especially the alternate day fasting), that's a great way to cut down on food-costs. Another way is to buy cheap wild game meats from farmers' markets(or to hunt if you have the time). Also, raw organ-meats(such as heart, kidneys/tongue) tend to be far cheaper than standard organic muscle-meats. To give you an example, for ages I was able to buy raw organic/100% grassfed  ox liver at 2 pounds sterling a kilo and raw organic/grassfed ox heart for 8 pounds sterling a kilo, which compares to  a whopping 28 to 30 pounds a kilo for organic/100% grassfed fillet steak.

[Ioanna]

I apologize if this is becoming a bore, but I continue to struggle with bringing raw paleo into my social and romantic life.  

I've made some progress though, lol!... I feel okay to tell a significant other my dietary choices.  However I've not figured out how on earth to sort of 'mesh' lifestyles with someone who is not similar.

A first date for me tonight with a great person who is addicted to bbq's (tailgating), morning coffee, social beer drinking, and peanut m&m's, lol.  Food, as for most, is a means of socializing.

I don't like this lifestyle... I don't want to raise children in this kind of lifestyle... and that makes me feel like if I want to share a life or even have children some day that I would have to make too many compromises that I am not comfortable with.   I have no intentions to be limiting, but waffles, peanut butter, and ice cream sundaes are just not happening!  I can't imagine anyone not thinking me ridiculous?

[Hannibal]

I can't imagine anyone not thinking me ridiculous?

It's not rediculous - it's very true.
I can't imagine to be with someone who eats absolutely different from me. There are so many reasons behind this.
It's not only eating but also the whole life style.
There must be some common ground to share with someone.

[goodsamaritan]

I apologize if this is becoming a bore, but I continue to struggle with bringing raw paleo into my social and romantic life.  

I've made some progress though, lol!... I feel okay to tell a significant other my dietary choices.  However I've not figured out how on earth to sort of 'mesh' lifestyles with someone who is not similar.

A first date for me tonight with a great person who is addicted to bbq's (tailgating), morning coffee, social beer drinking, and peanut m&m's, lol.  Food, as for most, is a means of socializing.

I don't like this lifestyle... I don't want to raise children in this kind of lifestyle... and that makes me feel like if I want to share a life or even have children some day that I would have to make too many compromises that I am not comfortable with.   I have no intentions to be limiting, but waffles, peanut butter, and ice cream sundaes are just not happening!  I can't imagine anyone not thinking me ridiculous?

I do see you are at the romancing stage for now...

But I can relate.  I've got wives and kids.

Sure people know I'm on raw paleo diet.  It works best for me.  I used to be really sick.  Now I help people who are sick and RPD is the diet that delivers reliably.

On rare occasions I will slide down to eat cooked meat (but not for the whole day, that causes me tummy aches).  Starches -- forget it.  No way.

How I raise the kids.  Striving for paleo diet cooked / rare / raw meats...lots of fats... hydrating fruits, high vitamin C fruits, I concede to organic rice as the least allergenic of the starches... but no other starches are acceptable... when they are sick they are forced on cooked meat paleo diet eliminating rice, when even sicker they are on raw paleo diet.

Kids... absolutely nothing beyond cooked paleo diet and rice.  Even grandparents are made aware... no donuts, no pasta, no fast food, no pizza, etc.  My wife is on cooked paleo diet with just a wee bit of rice for now.

Lifestyle wise shampoo is once a week and soaping the body is only once a week.  Kids get eczema under the ears if they soap too much. No chemicals on their body.  No chemicals in the house.

My wife and I like this lifestyle because it sure beats our old lifestyle when we were always sick and we often visited the hospital E.R. and had too many doctor appointments.

I am the family's shining example of health idol - example - teacher - food marketer - healer - best doctor. So they know raw paleo diet and lifestyle is what's good for them.

----------

How this came to be?
They saw me sick.
They saw me get well.
They watched me experiment and pioneer the raw paleo diet and lifestyle for them.
When they saw it was working splendidly my wife followed suit and the children as well.
My wife enforces diet and lifestyle on our kids same as me.

[TylerDurden]

Well, I don't think one has to follow conventional rules whether in dating or raising children. For example, I knew some men at university who never drank alcohol just either coca cola or mineral-water, depending on their inclinations. They didn't do so because they were uniquely susceptible to alcohol, in most cases, they just avoided it because they didn't like feeling drunk. And yet there is a massive drinking culture in UK universities.


Similiarly, raising children can be done on a semi-raw Weston-Price-style diet in the initial stages(assuming the children can tolerate raw  dairy). That way, you don't isolate them from cooked-foods-consumption re social gatherings while still not compromising too much.

And, of course, there are always ways to get around issues, such as eating steak tartare or sashimi at restaurants etc.

[Hannibal]

Similiarly, raising children can be done on a semi-raw Weston-Price-style diet in the initial stages(assuming the children can tolerate raw  dairy). That way, you don't isolate them from cooked-foods-consumption re social gatherings while still not compromising too much.

That's what I meant. It's not good to be orthodox, but compromises shouldn't be to big.

[Ioanna]

That's what I meant. It's not good to be orthodox, but compromises shouldn't be to big.

and what I meant too... I would be flexible to the degree Tyler described.  And I like what GS wrote too.  But someone who eats SAD would think granola healthy, pizza a norm on Friday nights, and oreos a great lunch snack.  Who knows, maybe I'm anticipating more conflict than really would be.  I just know how general (work, etc) people respond to me not consuming them.

[goodsamaritan]

Ionna,

If I were guy dating you and I found you healthy, sexy, beautiful --- I wouldn't mind if you were a blood thirsty vampire preying on land animals.  I wouldn't mind it either if you ate pizza and french fries as long as you are healthy, sexy and beautiful. (of course we know pizza and french fries will make you lose your beauty in a few short years... but TODAY the chick may be gorgeous).  Your avatar used to be wonder woman, so if you look anything like wonder woman a guy who's crazy about your looks could logically infer that it's RPD that makes you gorgeous.

Besides, when you are out on a date, you can always choose to order restaurant stuff that are raw.  Just last week I went out with old high school buddies and I just ordered 4 platefuls of raw oysters... the menu said it was to be cooked 2 ways, I just told the waiter I wanted them raw.

We live with our in laws.  My father in law is a carb addict.  He eats pastries at breakfast.  It's no big deal, really. I just ate my ripe old raw fish and raw liver this dinner with them.

[jessica]

Ionna,

If I were guy dating you and I found you healthy, sexy, beautiful --- I wouldn't mind if you were a blood thirsty vampire preying on land animals. 

haha that is a great quote.  i hate to say it but one of the benefits of technology and the internet is people are more exposed to different lifestyles and the pros/cons of each.  in general i think people are becoming more acceptable then they would have been in the past because its hard to deny the wide spectrum of lifestyles when you can see them for yourself(as much as staring at a screen is 'seeing")  i think you will find that someones acceptability of your lifestyle to be a kind of darwinian mechanism to weed out people/a mate who is #1: accepting of differences #2 :curious about health #3: concerned about your health and you being as healthy as possible regardless of the means
and maybe you do fall in love with someone who eats cheetos but is fully supportive of rpd....life is too bizarre to really contemplate or think you can even guess what is coming within the next second, just dont doubt that doing what makes you healthiest is wrong.  i know there is need to balance physical health with social health so maybe find a social outlet that doesnt involve food, or first dates that arent dinner dates (a nice hike, art museum.....?)  also at work, dont let people bully you arround, tell them  you are allergic, most times people just have this controlling streak or if you dont accept they think you are being a snob, who cares! its your body and well being!  but if you give them a good (medical) reason most often they will leave you alone:)  hope any of this is helpful

[Ioanna]

Your avatar used to be wonder woman, so if you look anything like wonder woman a guy who's crazy about your looks could logically infer that it's RPD that makes you gorgeous.

hahaha, I was actually approached while holiday shopping with some friends by a stranger who told be I look like I just walked out of a comic... I didn't know if that was a compliment or not, but I just decided to take it as one

Thanks GS and Jessica!!

[van]

I just had a long discussion with a woman I have been dating for a couple of months now.   She got rather stern with me and almost accused me of having an addiction, or at least stating that many or most people on 'unique' food quests are.  Her one point that stuck was that somewhere along the line that the person's innate guidance for balance got thrown off.  I have to agree in my case, for in high school I dieted for wrestling and continued for almost a year afterwards.  Then there's my dad who would buy up to 100 dollars of vitamins a week.  This was about 30 years ago, vit. prices were so low then.  I tried to tell her about how well I do with my diet, and also how I have this real fear of hospitals and doctors and will do anything to avoid the both.  And agreed that if there was an addiction it was out of this fear.  But also that I want to have another child, ride horses, mountain bike, snow ski with my daughter and be strong and active for a long while.  I did mention how if she would pay attention that women when they hit 40 (she's 31) go downhill real fast.  Even though she didn't blink, I think she already new this.  But for her, food IS one of her real passions. She loves to cook.   So, even though she listens, I think it barely sinks in.   And then I wonder why I chose her.  Well actually she chose me, another story,  But, there is this appreciation of having someone in my life like her that may help balance the equation, or bring me into a larger social circle and hence the opportunity to experience a greater variance of life....   Also I have never been involved with a lover without having an effect on their food choices.    And I tend to believe that setting an example is really the only way to teach.   
    Food is a biggy,  bigger than most will even be willing to look straight on into long enough to pierce even the thinnest skin.  So if there's any advice, if you think you really care for this guy,  stay conscious and accepting when he eats his peanut butter m&ms.   Probably the only way he'll be able to do the same when you eat that half living thing on your plate.

[RawZi]

...  I've got wives and kids.

...  My wife is on cooked paleo diet with just a wee bit of rice for now.

...
When they saw it was working splendidly my wife followed suit and the children as well.
My wife enforces diet and lifestyle on our kids same as me.

    Have any of your wives tried practicing raw paleo?  The cooked paleo wife, does she eat raw vegetables and raw fruit?  I was raised mostly with that diet, no franks nor sausages, but bone in meat and raw produce.

    It's a little tough, but when I hang out for endless hours wherever my husband wants to go, I just carry some cut up juicy raw meat in a bag rolled in grated raw suet and snack on it when I have to.  It hasn't gotten much more complicated than that recently.  It looks like breaded tofu of breaded meat and I haven't done it too near to people in case they can smell suet.

[goodsamaritan]

   Have any of your wives tried practicing raw paleo?  The cooked paleo wife, does she eat raw vegetables and raw fruit?  I was raised mostly with that diet, no franks nor sausages, but bone in meat and raw produce.

Raw fish and raw eggs yes.  Raw fruit is the default... cooking fruit is weird.  Raw vegs used to do salads with me during my raw vegan trials... found fruit is a lot better than vegs.

[redfulcrum]

I grew up eating cheerios and drinking coke.  I'm not going to mess that up for my kids.  Their mother would have to go paleo so they can be properly nourished.  I can't blame my parents for it because they were ignorant about diet.  Now that I have somewhat of an idea of what a proper human diet should be, I would feel l guilty to not instill that in my wife and children.  It wouldn't be fair to the children.  I see eating a SAD the same think as alcohol consumption during pregnancy.  You can't produce optimal human beings with sub optimal nutrition. 

You guys know how huge Cro-magnon skulls were?   

[TylerDurden]

Yes, they were 11% larger than ours. Though there are other explanations for the bigger size of their brains such as the cold-climate/intelligence theory or simple evolution(that is, our body size decreased after that along with the brain-size, and some people claim brain-size/body ratio is more of a sign of intelligence than large brains per se(though that is also disputed).

What is interesting is that the Inuit have the largest skulls,. reportedly, of all humans(though again that isn't necessarily a sign of greater intelligence).

[redfulcrum]

I think paleo humans were powerful hunting machines.  We were suppose to be able to survive that environment.  Along with big muscles came big brains.  I think the advent of agriculture caused us to evolve backwards more or less. 

[cherimoya_kid]

Yes, they were 11% larger than ours. Though there are other explanations for the bigger size of their brains such as the cold-climate/intelligence theory or simple evolution(that is, our body size decreased after that along with the brain-size, and some people claim brain-size/body ratio is more of a sign of intelligence than large brains per se(though that is also disputed).

I don't see much evidence for a cold climate/intelligence theory.  Humans evolved in the hottest of climates.  Not only that, you would would expect Northern Europeans to be noticeably more intelligent than Southern Chinese, or people from India, and that is manifestly wrong. 

If pure brain size were all that mattered, then whales would be the smartest creatures on the planet.  They have 20 pound brains, in some cases.  Just to clarify, if anyone says that whales really are the smartest creatures, I already think you're stupid.