Rob's journal

[robbie1687]

I dislike starting a public journal because it implies an obligation to keep going, and for all I know, I'll lose interest tomorrow.

But here goes.

A few days ago I stumbled across this forum and was impressed by the fact that lots of people eat raw meat without getting sick.

Reading about food made me hungry, and eventually I went to the refrigerator and took out a package of Northstar bison that had been defrosting overnight.   Without much thought, I cut off three narrow strips and put them on a plate.

The idea of eating these dense cold red strips didn't seem strange.  They reminded me of tuna sashima.  Raw fish has been one of my favorite foods since I was a small boy, when my father took me to a Japanese restaurant for the first time.   That was nearly a half century ago.

It's odd how certain old memories seem vivid and completely certain.  A half century later, I can still see the simple, elegant interior of the restaurant -- at least it seems as if I can.   I remember the waitresses in their obis and spangled kimonos smiling at me in the way that women do with children.

One of the waitresses put a tray with nigiri sushi before me.   I had never seen it before.  I couldn't believe how good it tasted.  The combination of raw fish, wasabi, soy sauce and (forgive me, I'm being honest) sugary vinegared rice -- it was like nothing I had ever tasted, but fantastically good.  As good as chocolate cake, but utterly unlike chocolate cake!

So here I was two nights ago, a half century later, long past the age when pretty young women dote on me for no particular reason, looking at three narrow strips of bright red buffalo muscle, thinking it looked like sashimi and not put off in the least.

I should mention that I only started eating grass fed meat about two weeks ago.  My first reaction to grass fed beef, when I ate it cooked,  was that it tastes a bit like fish.  Maybe that's my reaction to the higher omega 3 content.

I tasted one of the raw bison strips cautiously.  It tasted quite good.   I liked it.  In fact I liked it very much.   

The meat was very lean, though, and I'm trying to stay in ketosis as much as possible because I gained a bit of abdominal fat over the summer, so I added a few small pieces of grass fed butter to the plate and ate them with the other two strips.  They didn't go well together.

I waited a few hours to see I would get sick, but I felt fine.  Later that night I ate most of the rest of the bison together with some cucumber slices.  For some reason I felt like adding salt, although I rarely do, so I did.  It was a fine meal.

All together I ate about 14 ounces of raw meat on my first day.

[Ioanna]

Hi Rob,

Don't worry, I started a journal and I think I've posted in it twice so far.

It will be interesting to read about your progress because you were already paleo and just changed from cooked to raw. I'm not sure anyone else has that background here?

Be well!!
Ioanna

[robbie1687]

Thanks for the friendly encouragement, Ioanna.

This is the fifth day I've been eating raw meat and I haven't noticed any change or reaction.

Except that I realized I hate the taste of the US Wellness 75% ground beef that's stockpiled in my freezer.  I didn't particularly like it when it was cooked, but when I tried to eat it raw, I realized it's truly horrible.  I ended up throwing it away.   (I also bought some 87% packages and they're fine.  They taste completely different.)

Good thing I chose some other package of meat on my first day as a raw eater, otherwise I might have given up before I started.

If I notice anything, I'll let you know.

[Josh]

Everyone's journals on and off apart from Lex. I think a lot of people are just trying different things until they find what works. Sounds like you're doing well. Beef tastes really nice with soy sauce find..I found wasabi made me vomit if I had a big meal of raw meat though.

[robbie1687]

Yeah I thought soy sauce would be nice but it tends to give me migraines so I avoid it.  

Even though raw meat reminded me of sashimi I felt no desire to put wasabi on it.  But cilantro and onions and cucumber and salt and lemons came to mind immediately, even though I normally don't eat those things.  (Onions give me migraines too, even a small amount.)

I don't have any special complaints that I'm trying to solve with diet, except that I gained some abdominal fat over the summer because I ate tons of fruit.  But that's been going away because I made my diet more ketogenic (less carbs, less excess protein, more saturated fat).

[Ioanna]

do you know the percentages of fat:protein:carbs you've tried for 'more ketogenic'?

not that i'm encouraging you to make a science out of your meals ... just curious if you have an idea.

[djr_81]

Except that I realized I hate the taste of the US Wellness 75% ground beef that's stockpiled in my freezer.  I didn't particularly like it when it was cooked, but when I tried to eat it raw, I realized it's truly horrible.  I ended up throwing it away.   (I also bought some 87% packages and they're fine.  They taste completely different.)

I can't stand the taste of raw ground beef either. I tried store-bought grainfed and it was awful. I later tried the chili meat grind from Slankers and I didn't like it either. I tried dehydrating it (at 95*F, well below the threshold to keep the good enzymes) and it came out great. I ate it fresh out of the dehydrator so it was warm and it was a welcome change from the texture of raw meat. It's still very fatty so you couldn't use the dehydrating to store the meat but it's a thought to consider if the meat in the freezer isn't so good. Better than tossing it out.

[robbie1687]

do you know the percentages of fat:protein:carbs you've tried for 'more ketogenic'?

not that i'm encouraging you to make a science out of your meals ... just curious if you have an idea.

I used to weigh everything to the gram, mostly from curiosity, but I never aimed at a particular percentage.

When I want to be "more ketogenic" I just eat extremely low carbs (maybe two pieces of celery the whole day) and make sure there's a lot of fat mixed in with my protein.   Sometimes I eat saturated fat by itself, e.g. a piece of tallow.

I guess I never bothered to calculate because whenever I eat this way, my body pretty quickly shifts gears.  I can feel when it happens because the feeling of hunger changes and there's a sort of pleasant buzz to the body.  

Let me tell you about a friend, since her story is more interesting and sheds more light on this.   Her gall bladder was removed so she can't eat very much fat.  If she does, she gets sick.

She's been obese since infancy, and she's 5' 5".    

Last year she weighed 270 pounds.  I convinced her to try an ultra-low carb diet.  I was worried that it wouldn't work because she can't eat very much fat.  Her diet would have to be mostly protein, and the body can turn protein into glucose.

But within a few weeks her appetite plummeted, an indication that her body had started to rely largely on its stored supplies.

She's been doing this for almost 14 months now.  She eats as much as she wants, and that's very little, usually a single small meal or maybe two.  On a typical day she'll eat five chicken livers sauteed in two tablespoons of butter and some spinach.  That's her upper limit for fat; that amount sometimes makes her a little sick, but she puts up with it.  I'm picking this meal because it's probably the most fat she ever eats in one day.

I don't know if she's in ketosis physiologically but pretty clearly she's burning mostly fat since she's lost a lot of weight and she feels  stronger and healthier and more energetic than ever, indicating that she isn't sacrificing very much lean tissue.  (She's replaced her clothes about five times too!)

Here's how her intake breaks down on that day (again, that's a high-fat day for her):

Total kcal: 716 (she's eating as much as she wants!)

Protein: 79 grams = 44% of kcal
Fat: 42 grams = 53% of kcal
Carb: 22 grams = 3% of kcal

I conclude from this that it's possible (for her, at least) to be in ketosis (or at least burn lots of body fat) when eating as little as 53% of calories as fat.

[robbie1687]

I can't stand the taste of raw ground beef either.

It's just the 75% lean I don't like, and I think maybe it's because something yucky got ground into that one batch.  I never ordered it before so I don't know if this batch is different than usual.

I also bought 87% lean from the same place (US Wellness) and I like it raw.  It's not because of the fat content.  They taste very different.

I tried store-bought grainfed and it was awful. I later tried the chili meat grind from Slankers and I didn't like it either. I tried dehydrating it (at 95*F, well below the threshold to keep the good enzymes) and it came out great. I ate it fresh out of the dehydrator so it was warm and it was a welcome change from the texture of raw meat. It's still very fatty so you couldn't use the dehydrating to store the meat but it's a thought to consider if the meat in the freezer isn't so good. Better than tossing it out.

I'll try dehydrating some.  Thanks for the idea.  Do you spread it out in a thin layer or what?

[djr_81]

I'll try dehydrating some.  Thanks for the idea.  Do you spread it out in a thin layer or what?

I form it into patties as if I was going to cook it but instead put it onto the dehydrator sheets. The thicker the patties the longer it takes to dry out (or you can eat them with the outside well dried and the inside still moist. I make mine about 1/4"-3/8" thick as I like the inside a bit chewier to contrast the crunchy outside.

[robbie1687]

I tried some more 87% raw and didn't like it so much.  Maybe I fooled myself the first time because it was new and I was excited. 

Any advice on a dehydrator?  Folks on Amazon seem to like the Nesco FD75-PR:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FFVJ3C/

[PaleoPhil]

To me, grassfed ground beef has a strong, musky, semi-sour taste that takes a lot of getting used to. I like it somewhat now, but I'm still trying to get used to it. In contrast, I found I liked local, mostly-pasture-fed veal and bison somewhat right away and came to quickly love those. This is one reason I haven't bought bulk grassfed beef yet, as I don't know if I'll like it enough to eat a lot of it.