Jack Lalanne

[personman]

He still worshipped lucifer like all freemasons at high degrees. Is he then a trustworthy source??

[cobalamin]

He still worshipped lucifer like all freemasons at high degrees. Is he then a trustworthy source??

What is the difference between those that worship Lucifer and those that wrote the bible based on what is God? How can you tell who is correct? Nobody can. For all we know, Lucifer could be God and the God the majority worship could be the devil.

Freemasonry is just a private club. I can make a private club tomorrow and not invite you because I don't see you fit for it. No point being jealous about it.

Look at the physical and psychological health of those that follow religions. Now look at the psychological and physical health of Jack Lalanne that worshipped Lucifer as you say. Jack Lalanne is a trustworthy source, he has spoken a lot of wisdom and TRUTH. He has been saying for years how much garbage people eat; did anybody listen? Its not like he kept the truth to himself and watched people suffer. The problem with society is that nobody wants to hear the truth!

Anyone that puts Jack Lalanne down should go put their head back under the sand. 

[sabertooth]

The problem with society is that nobody wants to hear the truth!

I don't see being labeled an admirer of Lucifer as being negative. The light bearer is a mythical being, whose story was meant to scare the masses into blindly serving an other mythical being( The almighty God)

I could see how some people or groups of people like the free masons would admire the spirit, wisdom and beauty of Lucifer and wish to rebel{ as Satan had done} against the mythical God Almighty.  Devil worshiping practices may have liberated the early masons from the crippling theology of Christianity. People were so brainwashed from bible reading during the early days of the free masons, that the theme of mans liberation from God had to be told in the context of the story of Lucifer. I  see  the free masons using the image of the light bearer to make their club look more appealing to the disenfranchised intelligentsia counter culture of their day.

In short, Lucifer is to Free masons as Santa Clause is to today's contemporary Christians, just a mostly symbolic remnant of the old religion not meant to be taken too literally.

[personman]

freemasons involve themselves in child sacrifice and are behind the plot to depopulate the world by 90%. Freemasonry is an evil cult(evil defined as willingness to harm others"). I am no christian my friend.

[sabertooth]

Its not just free masons that are evil.

Among many very different groups of people who have held position of power throughout history, there have been individuals who commit atrocity. There are extremist in every type of religion. Some satanist are into human sacrifice, but that doesn't mean Jacks worshiping of Lucifer is in anyway related to child murder. Lucifer was the angle of light and only later was he interpreted as a murderous blood thirsty demon.

The inquisition for example, was conducted by Christians. That doesn't mean that the followers of Christ at that time were  all guilty of such crimes. So it is that most of the free masons don't condone child sacrifice. Although I do admit that in general they may be a heartless bunch.

Perhaps I speak from the narrowness of my own experience with people who claim to be satanist. Most of the devil worshipers I have met are the type of Gothic antisocial misanthropes that read the satanic bible and preform rituals without the need for human sacrifice. They seem for the most part harmless lost souls.

[Ferocious]

While I think it's stupid to call yourself Satanist, it's a very misleading title because of how people view the title Satan. Satan is actually not associated with any kind of "evil". That is just what Christians are taught. But any unbiased, reasonable person would consider Satan to be "good". In my opinion, the Bible is evil, because of what is condoned in it. To me, God is "evil". I don't understand why someone could consider Satanists(at least the real ones) or Satan, evil.

Lucifer and Satan are not the same thing. Lucifer is only mentioned once in one version of the Bible and it only refers to a fallen human king. He is not the same as the being or beings associated with the title Satan. Someone that worships "Lucifer" doesn't know who they are worshiping.

Also, sabertooth, no one that reads the Satanic Bible worships the devil. They don't even believe in the devil as an actual being, and are actually atheists. They only believe in what the devil represents, which is not evil things like everyone is taught that Satan represents.

But of course, good and evil are subjective and don't exist in the first place.

[TylerDurden]

True, the Old Testament, if not the New Testament, is full of evil. All about God promoting genocide, treachery etc. I have never understood the attraction of monotheism with a vain, dictatorial god who has to be worshipped devoutly or you'll go to hell. Other religions are a lot saner, such as animism and Buddhism and pagan pre-Christian religions like the Norse and Celtic ones. Animism seems the most humane of them all, I think, and more practical.

[Ferocious]

True, the Old Testament, if not the New Testament, is full of evil. All about God promoting genocide, treachery etc. I have never understood the attraction of monotheism with a vain, dictatorial god who has to be worshipped devoutly or you'll go to hell. Other religions are a lot saner, such as animism and Buddhism and pagan pre-Christian religions like the Norse and Celtic ones. Animism seems the most humane of them all, I think, and more practical.

The New Testament is bad too, just not as bloody. Oh, God promotes many horrible things, including raping preteen virgin girls and slaughtering children, among many other things. I could never understand why someone would consider someone that opposes that as "evil".

Yes, I don't understand either. I would not want to worship anyone or anything that demands to be worshiped and sets all these rules, yet doesn't explain why these rules need to be followed, or why it's wrong to break them. Why they exist in the first place?

Satan is not even a being, it's a title given to more than one individual. It's simply one that opposes. It was wrongly capitalized in the English versions to seem like it's a name, but it's obviously not a name. There is no such thing as Satan, according to the Bible.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread because I know this is not the exact topic of the thread. Was just sharing my thoughts because many people believe things that were never even in the Bible!

[TylerDurden]

I disagree. The New Testament is not evil. That is the character of Jesus does some amazing things. I don't just mean the benevolence, but also his way of tricking the Pharisees("render unto god what is due to go etc.") but also his volence against the moneylenders. I still think that we would have all been far better off if the 3 Abrahamic religions had never been invented, but Jesus is the only good aspect of the lot.

[personman]

AGREED. THE MONEYLENDERS ARE IN THE TEMPLE. JESUS AS AN ETHICAL FIGURE SERVES A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR THE SHEOPLE BUT...ANTI-NATURAL MORALITY AT ITS FINEST....YET...RATIONAL IN ORCHASTRATING A KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ON EARTH....BETTER MAYBE THAN A NEO-FEUDALISM UNDER THE NWO.....MAYBE

[sabertooth]

Satan is not even a being, it's a title given to more than one individual. It's simply one that opposes. It was wrongly capitalized in the English versions to seem like it's a name, but it's obviously not a name. There is no such thing as Satan, according to the Bible.

I agree with this. My earlier run ins with satanist basically was confined to Gothic kids who dabbled in an eclectic occult of satanism and neo paganism. I dont know anyone who is loony enough to call themselves an outright satanist.

I wonder since satanist are atheist then isn't the whole opposing God religion kind of futile anyway.

Actually the biblical definition of Satan as being one who opposes, seems to define much of my own beliefs as satanic.

I belong to Universalist Unitarian church and have adopted the basic UU principles in regards to views on religion. They believe that all religious belief as well as disbelief has some value from a humanistic perspective. Humans as well as all life forms are interconnected in a universal web of existence. God is to big to fit into any one religious concept , the scope of human existence is to wide to be subjected to a single dogma.

From a biblical perspective our church is Satanic.

 

[Ferocious]

I agree with this. My earlier run ins with satanist basically was confined to Gothic kids who dabbled in an eclectic occult of satanism and neo paganism. I dont know anyone who is loony enough to call themselves an outright satanist.

I wonder since satanist are atheist then isn't the whole opposing God religion kind of futile anyway.

Actually the biblical definition of Satan as being one who opposes, seems to define much of my own beliefs as satanic.

I belong to Universalist Unitarian church and have adopted the basic UU principles in regards to views on religion. They believe that all religious belief as well as disbelief has some value from a humanistic perspective. Humans as well as all life forms are interconnected in a universal web of existence. God is to big to fit into any one religious concept , the scope of human existence is to wide to be subjected to a single dogma.

From a biblical perspective our church is Satanic.

 

Yeah, I think calling oneself a Satanist is kind of pointless and stupid.

Technically, I am a satan (saw-tawn in Hebrew) too just because I oppose and challenge what most people just accept.

I think whatever "God" is, is already what we are and what everything around us is. It can't really be comprehended with the mind.

[Joy2012]

Please read the first four books (the Four Gospels) of the New Testament carefully and you will see Jesus reveals God's heart of love and compassion to the whole world.  It is to a man's infinite loss when he chooses to refuse God's offer of love and help.

[sabertooth]

The love of Jesus may be real, but I despise the Idea that somehow the murder of Christ somehow is suppose save us from our sins. The Unitarians view Christ as a man of love and a profit, but he is not Gods only Son, he was a just a man. His murder was a horrible event, but it does not signify any thing such as the Bible professes.

Its up to each person to cultivate their own love and compassion for the world. If that to you personally means following the Gospels and believing in its God then I wish you all the blessings in the world.

[Joy2012]

The love of Jesus may be real, but I despise the Idea that somehow the murder of Christ somehow is suppose save us from our sins. The Unitarians view Christ as a man of love and a profit, but he is not Gods only Son, he was a just a man. His murder was a horrible event, but it does not signify any thing such as the Bible professes.

Its up to each person to cultivate their own love and compassion for the world. If that to you personally means following the Gospels and believing in its God then I wish you all the blessings in the world.

If one day you find your love and compassion fall far short of your own personal ideal...or if you fall into deep depression and no one offers you the kind of love and compassion that even partially satisfy your heart,  then I invite you to re-consider God's invitation to receive His love and compassion.

God's infinite love/compassion is made available to everyone in the whole world--all because Jesus Christ died for our sins on the Cross and thus forever secures forgiveness for all sins--but only to those who willingly accept God' s love and compassion....God requires this "willingness" because He respects each person's free will....because mankind is the most noble and dignified and magnificent creation among God's creations...so each person is given free will--to choose everlasting bliss or the contrary.

I have had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ for 20+ years. It has been a love story from DAY 1. And it is getting richer every year. He is alive in my life every day.

"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived,
what God has prepared for those who love Him..." (1 Corinthians 2, from the Bible)

[Ferocious]

If one day you find your love and compassion fall far short of your own personal ideal...or if you fall into deep depression and no one offers you the kind of love and compassion that even partially satisfy your heart,  then I invite you to re-consider God's invitation to receive His love and compassion.

God's infinite love/compassion is made available to everyone in the whole world--all because Jesus Christ died for our sins on the Cross and thus forever secures forgiveness for all sins--but only to those who willingly accept God' s love and compassion....God requires this "willingness" because He respects each person's free will....because mankind is the most noble and dignified and magnificent creation among God's creations...so each person is given free will--to choose everlasting bliss or the contrary.

I have had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ for 20+ years. It has been a love story from DAY 1. And it is getting richer every year. He is alive in my life every day.

"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived,
what God has prepared for those who love Him..." (1 Corinthians 2, from the Bible)

Hahaha, free will???

So I have the free will to choose to worship God or suffer everlasting fire?

[Joy2012]

Ferocious, yes and no.

My understanding is that God the Father is inviting you to become one of the eternal companions of God the Son (Jesus Christ) and to be Jesus’ little brother. God created us to become His big Family, to enjoy His infinite love and riches throughout eternity.
I believe that if the Gospel message could be explained clearly with the echoes of heaven, everyone would rush to grasp it.

God’s purpose for sending Jesus Christ into the world (to be crucified on the Cross for all men's sins) is not to condemn us, but to save/bless us. Every thought of God towards you (as a unique individual person) is for good and not for evil, because you were created in the likeness of God and God loves you with infinite love.

I think the most misunderstood person in the whole universe is God. Even after 20+ years of relationship, I am still discovering new facets of God’ s heart which is good beyond my wildest imagination.

[Dorothy]

Ferocious, yes and no.

My understanding is that God the Father is inviting you to become one of the eternal companions of God the Son (Jesus Christ) and to be Jesus’ little brother. God created us to become His big Family, to enjoy His infinite love and riches throughout eternity.
I believe that if the Gospel message could be explained clearly with the echoes of heaven, everyone would rush to grasp it.

God’s purpose for sending Jesus Christ into the world (to be crucified on the Cross for all men's sins) is not to condemn us, but to save/bless us. Every thought of God towards you (as a unique individual person) is for good and not for evil, because you were created in the likeness of God and God loves you with infinite love.

I think the most misunderstood person in the whole universe is God. Even after 20+ years of relationship, I am still discovering new facets of God’ s heart which is good beyond my wildest imagination.

You say God is my father and Jesus is my brother and God is offering to make me part of his family - but what kind of family has a father and son and no mother? If God is my father then as a woman I'm not in his likeness. Where's my mother in this paradigm?

Patriarchial conceptions like these are so alienating for me as modern woman.

If anything I need a good mother to show me love and compassion not some guy sitting up on the clouds that kills off my brother because of me.

Ok - I get all the mythical aspects and I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell and I know you might be speaking metaphorically - at least I HOPE you are!  But even metaphorically I just can't relate to these gods you are speaking of.

[Dorothy]

I belong to Universalist Unitarian church and have adopted the basic UU principles in regards to views on religion. They believe that all religious belief as well as disbelief has some value from a humanistic perspective. Humans as well as all life forms are interconnected in a universal web of existence. God is to big to fit into any one religious concept , the scope of human existence is to wide to be subjected to a single dogma.
 

You've convinced me Sabertooth to check out the Universalist church. I've always felt that I was missing out on the positive side of belonging to a church in the community building sense - and if that is the basic belief system - I would like to meet more people that think that way.

[sabertooth]

The UU Church I attend as been a blessing to me and my family. The grounds are beautiful and the main church is a do-decagon that is kind of shaped like a space ship. The reverend is a woman who writes sermons based on eclecticism from all walks of life. She is a big fan of Wendell Berry who is a Kentucky native that is an advocate for a simpler life and sustainable living. People of all walks of life and belife are allowed to participate.

There is a man who is part of the pagan group who dedicated a whole service to explaining the nature of man and his development from his roots as hunter-gatherers. He explained how our minds and bodies where designed by nature in order to be successful persistence hunters.

Then there was a homily on valentines day about how we are wired biologically to need friendship and how basic positive human interactions are essential for happiness. Even Darwin himself valued the development of personal friendships above all other accomplishments.

The church sits on a historic farm with a house on it that was built by one of the original settlers of the area. People have been gathering for spiritual discussion in that house for about two hundred years. The whole grounds radiates healing energy, and I began going there at the same time I transitioned int the raw diet.

The child's religious exploration education program at our church is by far the best thing ever. There is usually a spirit play story time, where stories are acted out using objects and symbols. I got to act out the story of Stella Luna recently.  The each story tells a lesson that relates to the 7 basic principles of Unitarian Universalism . Much of themes are nature oriented. My children seem to like the whole experience .

There is a of building a community that the members chose to participate in. Much of it is Humanistic and has nothing to do with God or religion. We have been rehearsing for the last three weeks with the music director to sing songs. We are lerning"We are the world"  with hand signals and everything.


We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
Its true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

[Dorothy]

If the church here is anything at all like your church Sabertooth - I'm sold. Your post made me tear up a little. It sounds simply lovely.

[svrn]

He still worshipped lucifer like all freemasons at high degrees. Is he then a trustworthy source??

Theres nothing wrong with worshiping lucifer. There is a good lucifer and an evil lucifer so someone worshiping him may be good or evil. Lucifer is simply the lightbearer and bringer of knowledge to humans. Prometheus for example is the good lucifer. He gave us fire and got punished for it.

Theres definitly something to the freemasonry being involved in world government but I believe that to say every mason is evil would be inaccurate although many high ranking masons definitly do use it for evil.

[personman]

so far as I have been (mis) informed, the condition to 'level-up' in the freemasonic hierarchy is child sacrifice. I might be wrong but have heard that those lower levels in the 'blue degrees'(amongst whom Jack WASN'T) are largely ignorant of the meaning of freemasonry but those beyond have this as part o their initiation rite. The oncept of a lucifer, a man-god type superman(ubermensch) is all well and good so long as it doesn't lead to a neo-feudalism that throws the orbit of the social world into chaos and famine and nuclear holocaust so the superclass can take over from the ashes....

[svrn]

What you said here is true. What we need to realize though is the child rapists and sacrificers are a small minority in freemasonry. We must also not forget that these people have been caught in the catholic church and in lots of synagogues and pretty much every religion at the top. Where there is power there are child sacrificing pedophiles.