Raw-vegan and raw-paleo and other Questions

[aek11]

Hi I'm new to this forum. I've been experimenting with being raw-vegan for the past couple months and although it feels very 'clean' to eat that way, I now know I have to eat meat. But not cooked meat. Because everytime I eat cooked meat I get a really bad reaction (breathing, sinus, rashes)

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with being a raw vegan and then switching to raw animals. And then what benefits did you ahve from that? I'm also interested to hear people's benefits from raw animal foods in general.

Another question I have is, if you're familiar with the alkaline/acid diets, most of them say that meat is acid-forming. But is it possible that those tests have been from cooked meat, rather than raw meat? I would guess that raw meat would be at least less acid...?

Here is my history of Diet:

I'm 22 years old and up until a few months ago, I have basically just eaten whatever I want. Which was really bad food basically. All my friends always joked about how I'm gonna die early because I ate nothing but french fries everyday for lunch. I never ever ate fruits or vegetables. I ate a lot of cake, candy, cookies, bread, pasta, rice. I used to eat out for all my meals, usually Asian restaurants like thai, indian, korean, chinese, japanese - which are grain-heavy food. Sometimes I went for days eating nothing but dessert, candy, and pop.

But a few years ago I started getting really sick. Like I had to sleep almost all day long, and only woke up at night to drink and eat more bad food. And I didn't have enough energy to go to classes or study. And even when I did, I couldn't concentrate. And I started getting weird nerve-symptoms(tingling and numb sensations). Probably the heavy drinking had a lot to do with it.

The reason I ate so bad is because I never really had problems with my weight, so I always assumed that means I can eat whatever I want. I don't really gain weight easily. Although I don't lose weight easily etiher. But it finally took a toll on my body. So I quit drinking and quit caffeine. But I was always still sick and tired and had a lot of infections allergies and inflammations. Anyways, last year, after my mom urged me to go to a doctor, I finally agreed to go to a naturopathic doctor. And I got my blood tested for food allergies, and I had allergies to wheat, eggs, dairy, sugar, garlic, soy, and other foods I can't think of at the top of my head right now. But there's a list. Anyways, I took out all the allergy foods and immediately felt like way more energy. And a lot of my nerve-symptoms went away like 80% within a week. But then I lived in a new city for a year and it was too hard to stay away from those foods when there were so many new and exciting restaurants to try. So I quit and my health just got worse and worse. And I started also having major mood swings. In fact, I was now eating worse than before (although I still didn't drink too much or drink caffeine much).

When I came back to my home city after the year, I decided, I have to go back to my allergy-free diet. Except I figured, hey if I got such good results just from not eating those foods, then I need to figure out what the ideal diet for me is. Anyways, that's when I somehow got into raw vegan. But I kept having these crazy dreams that kept saying "eat meat. eat meat" like dreams saying I'm low in nutrients and so I need to eat meat. So I realized, ok, I'm gonna take that as a message from my body....saying I need meat. That plus, being raw vegan made me bruise so easily and that's never a good sign.

The other thing that I feel is off about raw veganism (no offense to them) is that a lot of them look really weird. I don't know how to describe, maybe you know what I'm talking about, but when you see their pictures or the videos on you tube, it's not even about them being too skinny. It's more like their fat distribution is off and they look really unhealthy. Like, their skin looks thin and skeletony. And they seem very spacey. Just..they don't look good to me.

Anyways, I know I need meat, but I also know cooked meat is not the answer. So there's my diet-history and I would be really interested to hear other people's opinions / experiences with raw veganism and/or other previous diets.

[TylerDurden]

Here's my testimonial detailing my journey via raw veganism to a RVAF diet, though it seems to be missing the photos it had previously(I too had the same sort of issues with cooked animal foods but was fine on raw):-

http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/geoff-purcell-uk-on-rvaf-diet/

As for the acid/alkali question, there are plenty of long-term ZCers who don't seem to have a problem with their bones(1 ZCer, Craig, even stated that his body was fine on a ZC diet but highly acidic on a raw vegan one). Basically, the PH value of raw meat is much closer to neutral and less acidic than cooked meats and none of us have ever reported acidity issues with a raw animal food diet.

 And the more the meat is processed, the more highly acidic it becomes(partly because when producers want a longer shelf-life it pays for them to increase the acidity of a product so as to kill off the bacteria).

*Minor issue:- You really ought to have made your first introductory post in the Welcoming Committee Forum. I'll move it there, now.*

[SkinnyDevil]

You might also want to look into the work of Dawn Blacklidge. She is a long-time athlete who was vegan for 20 years (much of that as a raw vegan) then switched to RAF. She now subscribes to what she calls retro-raw, which includes raw meats and even allows for a small percentage of cooked foods.

http://www.bodytemplebootcamp.com/diet-definitions.htm

[cherimoya_kid]

You can take a look at my testimonial at rawpaleodiet.com as well.  I was never a very good vegan, but I definitely have seem tremendous improvements from adding raw animal products.

[aek11]

Thanks for all the replies and info!! The testimonials were very encouraging to me.

Yes, when I eat cooked animal food, I feel horrible. That's good to know that raw meat is not as acid.

So I've started off slowly with raw seafood as of now. I have bad reactions to cooked seafood too...especially cooked fish. And I don't have those symptoms at all with the raw seafood.

The only reason people think raw meat is gross is because we're socially conditioned to. But actually, eating raw meat is clearly much more natural than cooked.

[phatdave]

Eat raw meat over seafood. nothing is wrong with it (at all!), but you could get into the bread and butter of raw paleo eating by going out and buying a steak, leave it out covered on the counter to get to room temp, then searing it in a pan for a couple of seconds on each side and the edges - then slice up and eat.

You will go, "Wow, this is amazing" and "Hmm, i guess the bacteria thing is nothing to worry about"

Your gut may take a little time to adjust, as mine did after raw vegan! So if that sounds like too much too fast please do what feels right , maybe just have a bite!

Then you can go hunting for better sources of meat, like at farmers markets - such that you start to get grassfed meats, fats and whatever you fancy trying at first. Once you find a really good source you will no longer have any need to sear your meat, and your body will be adjusting to a new diet too.

BTW the only reason I say this about searing is because supermarket meat goes through a rather grim process of slaughter and processing, which I don't trust, and it is not naive to think that in these vast industrial production lines which are disinfected etc that some actual nasty bacteria (ie pathogenic?) can breed. The trick is realising the difference between THAT bacteria and the perfection of a freshly killed healthy herbivore, in all its edible raw form.

In no time you will have found a good source of meat, and be enjoying the delicious and health giving qualities of a raw paleo diet. Throw in some paleo lifestyle and your going be feeling like a champ in no time.

Ps. Some people who switch from high sugar west diets may feel a bit odd during the bodys change to a higher fat, and lower carb diet. Don't be scared to take things slow, and read as much on this site as you can because you we learn much.

Good luck!

David

pps. guys/gals be honest, do i need to work on my communication skills?!  (i'm just excited when people find our site!)

[TylerDurden]

Nothing wrong with enthusiasm.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks for all the replies and info!! The testimonials were very encouraging to me.

Yes, when I eat cooked animal food, I feel horrible. That's good to know that raw meat is not as acid. ...

Actually, Lex Rooker is on a diet consisting solely of raw pasture fed meats, fats, organs and water and his urine IS highly acidic. The difference is, he doesn't experience any of the negative symptoms that are supposed to come with that. Instead, he has actually experienced benefits, such as firming teeth and increased jaw bone density as apparent from x-rays (see his excellent journal for more info). I eat a mostly-raw carnivorous diet myself and my urine also became highly acidic (ranging at the bottom of the test strip scale: 5.5 to 5.8 pH) and my results have mirrored Lex's, with firming teeth and other benefits.

[popeye]

Actually, Lex Rooker is on a diet consisting solely of raw pasture fed meats, fats, organs and water and his urine IS highly acidic. The difference is, he doesn't experience any of the negative symptoms that are supposed to come with that. Instead, he has actually experienced benefits, such as firming teeth and increased jaw bone density as apparent from x-rays (see his excellent journal for more info). I eat a mostly-raw carnivorous diet myself and my urine also became highly acidic (ranging at the bottom of the test strip scale: 5.5 to 5.8 pH) and my results have mirrored Lex's, with firming teeth and other benefits.

I also have acidic urine (around 6).  However, like you and Lex I have so far not suffered any bone or tooth problems.  In fact, my teeth have become less sensitive since I started eating more meat.  I have tried to find scientific papers on PubMed and the like that validate the Acid/Alkaline theory but so far have found none.  I'm beginning to think it's probably pseudoscience.  The body very tightly regulates the ph of the blood and other important things as part of its homeostasis.  The idea of the body being acidified by a certain type of diet doesn't make immediate sense to me, and as long as you are getting enough raw materials for it to maintain homeostasis I don't see how anything could disturb it one way or another.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks for the further confirmation. When it's only Lex and me reporting some extraordinary benefit of a raw carnivorous diet, I can understand how people might be skeptical, so it helps when other people confirm it.

I believe that minerals like magnesium, zinc and calcium and the fat-soluble vitamins A, D3 and K2 (once again these minerals and animal-sourced nutrients make an appearance) are the real keys to promoting bone density, rather than body fluid alkalinity.

[jessica]

my attention span is not very good right now so i didnt read the above posts but wanted to comment anyway!

i lived at the "tree of life" raw foods commune in AZ for a few months when i first got into raw foods.  it is a strictly vegan and very low glycemic establishment, where everyone is on "super foods" and cacao! all meals are prepared for you and they included a lot of pates and other dried nut/seed concoctions
i noticed that a lot of the community members/guests would sneak into town and EAT BAGELS!(gross!) while i prefered to sneak even further into town(20 miles ish down the road) and eat sashimi because my brain was pretty much screaming at me that it need animal protein and fat.  i was doing a lot of physical labor(10-12 hr days of farming without the help of machinery, plus bike commuting).  i must say that my health, both physically and psychologically, was excellent once i started eating a pretty clean raw veggie diet(no fancy pates/crackers) and raw fish.  it seemed as though everyone else was kinda floating around in a haze without as much energy, most people wasted their muscles away and were pretty stringy. !!!

[roony]

I also have acidic urine (around 6).  However, like you and Lex I have so far not suffered any bone or tooth problems.  In fact, my teeth have become less sensitive since I started eating more meat.  I have tried to find scientific papers on PubMed and the like that validate the Acid/Alkaline theory but so far have found none.  I'm beginning to think it's probably pseudoscience.  The body very tightly regulates the ph of the blood and other important things as part of its homeostasis.  The idea of the body being acidified by a certain type of diet doesn't make immediate sense to me, and as long as you are getting enough raw materials for it to maintain homeostasis I don't see how anything could disturb it one way or another.

The acid/alkaline theory is barely pseudo, its completely wrong, all the organs & different parts of the body have different types of acidity & alkalinity, there is no uniform acidity or alkanity in the body as a whole ...

[RawZi]

The acid/alkaline theory is barely pseudo, its completely wrong, all the organs & different parts of the body have different types of acidity & alkalinity, there is no uniform acidity or alkanity in the body as a whole ...

    Maybe urine SHOULD be more acidic.  I had to get mine tested regularly, diagnosing for lupus.  I was vegan all that time, sometimes raw vegan etc.  I took no medications to treat lupus, not even the baby aspirin/day they insisted on.  If I'm recalling correctly my urine usually tested around 7.9, and boy did I feel like crap (please excuse my French) day in and day out.