Different fat

[William]

I have not found any enzyme difference.
I was looking for the difference between cooked (rendered) and raw fat, found these:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4995048/Fat-enzyme-explains-why-some-people-dont-get-flabby.html
http://www.fruitarian.com/ac/Enzymes.htm
So there's no reported dietary difference in fat enzymes, but some react to cooked fat.

The only thing I can think of on my own is that cooked fat may contain traces of overcooked proteins, this is why rendered fat is filtered through a double layer of paper towel.

Does anyone know of another difference?

[TylerDurden]

The links didn't address the fact that cooking destroys the enzymes even in fat.So the above 2 links are meaningless.

[Ioanna]

what about fat-soluble minerals and vitamins?.. any literature on that?

if rendered at a low enough temp (but high enough to render efficiently), the fat itself (being highly saturated) is of the nutritional value as if raw?

[William]

My rede is the the enzyme MGAT2 is not in the fat. It is made in the gut.

I don't know about fat-soluble minerals and vitamins, bu think that fat is the carrier of them, not the source.

[TylerDurden]

My rede is the the enzyme MGAT2 is not in the fat. It is made in the gut.

I don't know about fat-soluble minerals and vitamins, bu think that fat is the carrier of them, not the source.

If enzymes have to be provided by the body instead of from the food, then that simply means that the body becomes overburdened and wears out faster. Far better to rely on enzyme-rich raw foods than enzyme-deficient cooked foods, however fatty.

[William]

Are there enzymes in raw fat? How about vitamins?

[TylerDurden]

Are there enzymes in raw fat? How about vitamins?

Enzymes are in all organisms, in a multitude. There's no reason to assume that fat is any different.As for vitamins, check under "raw suet" in the usda nutrient database(I'm not allowed to post a link to the correct table).

[alphagruis]

I have not found any enzyme difference.
I was looking for the difference between cooked (rendered) and raw fat, found these:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4995048/Fat-enzyme-explains-why-some-people-dont-get-flabby.html
http://www.fruitarian.com/ac/Enzymes.htm
So there's no reported dietary difference in fat enzymes, but some react to cooked fat.
Quote

The only thing I can think of on my own is that cooked fat may contain traces of overcooked proteins, this is why rendered fat is filtered through a double layer of paper towel.

Does anyone know of another difference?

The main effects of heating fat, I know of, is peroxidation of the unsaturated fatty acids. Heat increases tremendously the rate of the chemical reactions with oxygen. Oxidation already takes place (very) slowly at room temperature and this is what finally makes stored fat to become rancid after a few days or weeks or months depending on composition ( amount of unsaturated fatty acids, antioxidants, various "impurities" etc) , a well known phenomenon.

The polyunsaturated part of fatty acids is the most sensitive one whereas the saturated part is fairly stable up to 200° C.

A second adverse effect is the destruction or cis-trans conversions of fat soluble vitamins or antioxidants such as A, E, D etc

Rendering below 40° C essentially preserves them and avoids peroxidation.    

[William]

Tallow does not become rancid, not even after years at room temperature.

Rendering below 40° C is impossible. Lex Rooker has already covered this point.

[van]

  you can render under 40 C.  You must first grind the fat, as with a food processor.  then heat to 40 C.  At that temp. the liquid will have already started to separate.  The rest can be separated with a pressing or centrifugal spinning.   I can say more if needed.  And that I know of no one actually doing the second part of this operation (the pressing or spinning, to remove the remaining available liquid portion.)  If it was commercially available, I would certainly buy tons of it myself.  Maybe someone will pick it up someday.   Hey, they did it with olive oil, and now with salmon or fish oil. 

[carnivore]

Tallow does not become rancid, not even after years at room temperature.

Rendering below 40° C is impossible. Lex Rooker has already covered this point.

You can render the fat by grinding it. Then, you only need to melt the fat at below 40°C, and filter it to separate the liquid fat from the hard material.

[carnivore]

  you can render under 40 C.  You must first grind the fat, as with a food processor.  then heat to 40 C.  At that temp. the liquid will have already started to separate.  The rest can be separated with a pressing or centrifugal spinning.   I can say more if needed.  And that I know of no one actually doing the second part of this operation (the pressing or spinning, to remove the remaining available liquid portion.)  If it was commercially available, I would certainly buy tons of it myself.  Maybe someone will pick it up someday.   Hey, they did it with olive oil, and now with salmon or fish oil. 

Tell us how you extract the remaining fat from the rest ?

[William]

rendering = drying
drying = preserving

Dried beef fat, known as tallow, does not go rancid.

Rendering also separates the fat from connective tissue/proteins, which are poisonous after heating, as TD so verbosely points out.

If you keep fat at 40C it becomes rancid; Inevitably.

Please search Lex Rooker's post on this - he has done the research

[alphagruis]

Heated polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) (a few percent of them even in tallow) become toxic by themselves after heating (no need to even invoke cooked protein traces)  in particular because of oxidation. Since all natural sources of fat whether from plants or animals contain PUFAs that is one of the reasons for the adverse effects of heated natural fats.

Rancidity after storage at room temperature is less detectable by taste in tallow than in fish fat apparently because of the much lower initial amount of PUFAs.

 Tallow as rendered beef fat at usual cooking temperatures is nevertheless already fairly toxic depending on heating time and temperature. Further oxidation takes place if not stored in airtight containers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallow

[William]

 Tallow as rendered beef fat at usual cooking temperatures is nevertheless already fairly toxic depending on heating time and temperature. Further oxidation takes place if not stored in airtight containers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallow

Remarkable that so many have lived on it without any report of illness, were that true.
We have centuries of history, and recent years of individual experiments, none showing any illness.

Wikipedia is corrupt.

[alphagruis]

Well, my grandfather was a smoker for several tens of years without ever showing any apparent illness. Same for many people on neolithic foods.

Yet i certainly agree that tallow because of its  small content of PUFAs is much less toxic than most other heated fats or oils.

So it is likely that most of us can fairly well cope with it if the other neolithic foods are abandoned.

Nevertheless heating any natural fat (or food) always more or less degrades its quality as a food, necessarily and for many reasons.

  

[TylerDurden]

I suppose it all depends on one's definition of health. If one defines health as having a very strong chance of getting  heart-disease and many other related illnesses in later life, then tallow/heated suet is , I suppose, "healthy"!

[William]

Saying something is so does not make it so, whether for heated animal fat or smoking.
This is a very good thing for those who have had heart disease.
Heart disease can be seen to be a deficiency of fat, and the accompanying inflammation is controlled by cigarette smoke, the best anti-inflammatory. I proved this on myself.

So much for modern myth, so well spread by the lying media and foolish medicine.

I was hoping for evidence in this thread. Disappointing, so far.

[Raw Kyle]

rendering = drying
drying = preserving

That's downright misleading. Rendering involves cooking, plain and simple. One way to dry is to render, but drying and rendering are not synonymous.

[William]

If rendering were cooking, it would be called cooking. Beware infection with TD's obsession.

[TylerDurden]

William, I don't mind your spouting babble about the supposed  health-benefits of cigarettes or  cooking(surprisingly similiar re damage to health  as both contain heterocyclic amines, which are heat-created toxins) but please keep such far-out claims to the hot topics forum.

[alphagruis]

If rendering were cooking, it would be called cooking. Beware infection with TD's obsession.

Very funny, William, as usual.

Rendering as well as cooking imply heating, which is the relevant physical phenomenon here. Heating to temperatures typically around boiling water or even higher.

And that in turn implies damage to the biomolecules.

No way to escape fom this reality. Nature is very stuborn and does'nt care about our semantic contortionisms intended to do so.

[William]

So far, nobody has offered any functional difference between tallow and unheated fat other than laboratory work. We eat as we do for health reasons, and could use some honest evidence.

Objections seem much like those to smoking; superstition.

[TylerDurden]

So far, nobody has offered any functional difference between tallow and unheated fat other than laboratory work. We eat as we do for health reasons, and could use some honest evidence.

Objections seem much like those to smoking; superstition.

You're the superstitous one, given your nonsense claims attacking evolution etc.

[alphagruis]

So far, nobody has offered any functional difference between tallow and unheated fat other than laboratory work. We eat as we do for health reasons, and could use some honest evidence.

Well, this might be true, but does'nt mean there are none. Not easy to single out a specific dietary factor such as tallow as the culprit  when there are so many factors that contribute to health or disease, which are emergent phenomenons.

And again, as i said before, among heated fats tallow might well be the less toxic one.