Modern Men are wimps!

[TylerDurden]

Here's an article which makes a few salient points re modern humans:-

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2009/10/14/2009-10-14_modern_man_a_wimp_says_anthropologist_peter_mcallister_in_manthropology_.html

[SkinnyDevil]

Wondering how fast the author can run, or how high he can jump....

[SkinnyDevil]

http://9am.ten.com.au/video.htm?channel=9am+Just+Added&clipId=1427_9am-852LG1-090909

[goodsamaritan]

I think since civilization and civilized WAR, many many strong men have died.
So we probably are descendants of the men who survived the wars.

And most probably being on Paleo Diet, they ate large quantities of meat.  Aside from the exercise they got.  Gene expression.

We are the descendants of STARCHITARIANS.

Maybe 5 generations of paleo dieters will allow us to produce descendants as powerful.

We need paleo men and paleo women to pair up.  Time for paleo diet dating.

[PaleoPhil]

Here's an article which makes a few salient points re modern humans:-

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2009/10/14/2009-10-14_modern_man_a_wimp_says_anthropologist_peter_mcallister_in_manthropology_.html

Yeah, I was wondering what your take was on that article. It appears to take pretty much the opposite view as yours (or is it only the ZC/carnivorous HGs that you think would underperform modern athletes?), claiming that Stone Agers and even traditional peoples as recent as the 19th century could beat today's world records. My own view lies somewhere in between his and yours, and it's not set in stone.

Wow, I just watched the video interview and he was very convincing. Maybe Paleo men were indeed more athletic than Olympic athletes.

It's interesting that the author said he set out to prove that we moderners are just as athletic and healthy as Paleo men and found that we are not. Interesting also that, like Jared Diamond, he says that Paleo men were very smart, in contrast to the way they're generally presented by the mass media.

[William]

If it's in the mass media, it is probably wrong. IMHO

[TylerDurden]

Yeah, I was wondering what your take was on that article. It appears to take pretty much the opposite view as yours (or is it only the ZC/carnivorous HGs that you think would underperform modern athletes?), claiming that Stone Agers and even traditional peoples as recent as the 19th century could beat today's world records. My own view lies somewhere in between his and yours, and it's not set in stone.

My view is and has always been that palaeo peoples(and even Neolithic-era peoples to a lesser extent) experienced FAR higher levels of daily exercise than anybody in the modern era(even Olympic athletes, and so were far stronger etc.. I am still of the opinion that zero-carb athletes are hampered at least in an anaerobic sense, but it may be possible that Arctic ZC-eating Palaeos excelled modern humans(if not carb-eating palaeos) due to being forced to endure much higher levels of physical activity.

Wow, I just watched the video interview and he was very convincing. Maybe Paleo men were indeed more athletic than Olympic athletes.

Interesting that the author said he set out to prove that we moderners are just as athletic and healthy as Paleo men and found that we are not. Interesting also that, like Jared Diamond, he says that Paleo men were very smart, in contrast to the way they're generally presented by the mass media.

That I agree with, palaeo men were definitely not stupid and I wonder if even Homo Erectus already had all basic human characteristics re intelligence/imagination, even if it was not as bright.

[Raw Kyle]

Some of the claims I don't believe, like the 1.5 marathons a day the Roman legions did. They weren't even paleolithic dieters.

And as for the Arnold vs. a woman thing, aren't Neanderthals a totally different species?

[TylerDurden]

Some of the claims I don't believe, like the 1.5 marathons a day the Roman legions did. They weren't even paleolithic dieters.

And as for the Arnold vs. a woman thing, aren't Neanderthals a totally different species?

The claims are very credible. I always remember my father telling me about some of the people he knew in his youth who were still involved in specific manual-labour jobs. Some of them just spent every single day while at work throwing incredibly heavy, huge  sacks of goods into trucks and developed the kind of functional strength that just isn't seen in modern times. Similiarly, Roman soldiers in an era prior to railways were forced to rely on swift movement, to some extent to outflank opponents etc. so had to be highly active. Plus, the Romans were incredibly strict, forcing decimation on armies which didn't comply with any orders, rather an incentive, IMO.

[wodgina]

There's  people around capable of paleo feats, most aren't but some are. Pro boxer's, rugby players etc.

It's just the majority of us who are poor examples of the human form.

[TylerDurden]

There's  people around capable of paleo feats, most aren't but some are. Pro boxer's, rugby players etc.

It's just the majority of us who are poor examples of the human form.

Those types can't possibly compete against palaeos. For example, there was that study(referenced vaguely  in the above link I gave) which showed that Ancient Athenian rowers on triremes would have easily outcompeted any modern Olympic rowers. There's even an account from the ancient greek author Thucydides which attests to the incredible performance of such ancient rowers.

[wodgina]

Those types can't possibly compete against palaeos. For example, there was that study(referenced vaguely  in the above link I gave) which showed that Ancient Athenian rowers on triremes would have easily outcompeted any modern Olympic rowers. There's even an account from the ancient greek author Thucydides which attests to the incredible performance of such ancient rowers.

I read that article a while back and thought the authors evidence was weak to say the least.
Any elite athlete could compete with a paleo person. We are talking the cream of the 7 billion human race here! Seriously, the human body can only run so fast and lift so heavy!

[TylerDurden]

I read that article a while back and thought the authors evidence was weak to say the least.
Any elite athlete could compete with a paleo person. We are talking the cream of the 7 billion human race here! Seriously, the human body can only run so fast and lift so heavy!

You're underestimating the sheer level of physical performance required to emulate palaeo-style physical performance, I mean only a fraction of modern athletes have the opportunity to truly emulate the daily physical activity of palaeo tribesmen and  the vast majority of those will be doing unnatural exercise such as weightlifting etc. that does not help much re truly functional strength, so palaeos would beat them every time .  Also, there's been quite change in that there's no longer any natural selection as was the case in palaeo times, so that many physical disadvantages(eg;- narrow female hips lowering fertility) are now bred into the modern population.

[TylerDurden]

Just thought of something else. The drop in human brain-size in the Neolithic is also mirrored by a drop in physical stature(that's why people who believe in the brain-/body-size connection to intelligence don't assume that neolithic-era man was less intelligent than palaeo man) so palaeos would have beaten us every time in sports.

[wodgina]

You're underestimating the sheer level of physical performance required to emulate palaeo-style physical performance, I mean only a fraction of modern athletes have the opportunity to truly emulate the daily physical activity of palaeo tribesmen and  the vast majority of those will be doing unnatural exercise such as weightlifting etc. that does not help much re truly functional strength, so palaeos would beat them every time .  Also, there's been quite change in that there's no longer any natural selection as was the case in palaeo times, so that many physical disadvantages(eg;- narrow female hips lowering fertility) are now bred into the modern population.

In what way am I underestimating the functional strength of paleo people? 12 rounds of boxing, 90 min game of world class rugby and lifting a heavy object (weights) above your head can't be anymore functional. Fighting, playing and carrying game back to camp.

No doubt paleo people were prime specimens of the human form compared to the neolithic race but there are still examples of humans who have reached their full genetic capacity.

In regards to intelligence I think paleo people were not as intellectual, a broad skull with a proper diet would of produced humans who would of been calmer and less focused on details.IMO.

[Guittarman03]

The bones don't lie.  If they're built thicker and stronger that even our modern elite athletes, there's a reason for it.  Doesn't just happen.  Also, there's the course of devolution to consider.  Civilization and technology in general makes possible the survival of people that would otherwise have been weaker and died off.  From an intelligence and physical standpoint, we've had 10,000 yrs of devolution occuring b/c of civilization.  We haven't had much else to go except backwards.

Combine their optimal diet with the fact that most every human back in paleo times would have spent as much, if not more time in intense physical activity/training as any modern athlete, you have a recipe for an incredibly strong and hardy people as a whole.  Yes we may have 7 billion to choose from, but how many are actually on a decent (not even optimal) diet?  And of those, how many train in the volume you would have back in paleo times? 

And even if there are a few people equally as strong, they are the rare exception.  And probably 1/2 of those are b/c of performance enhancers anyways.

[goodsamaritan]

Could also be the earth's climate, air and water and nutritional ionic soup, gravity, electromagnetics has changed.  If they can say old time cavemen were robust, then what about those gigantic mega fauna? mega dinos? even mega mammals of old?

Seems that not only human have become wimps.  It's also the same for animals.

[wodgina]

I would like to see the comparison of a 6 foot 5 All Blacks rugby player bones compared to a paleo persons.