ajonous vonderplanitz coming to toronto,ON oct 25-26

[pc701]

hey, i think I might see him and go to his workshop because i live in toronto, so maybe you guys can give me some questions so ajonous can answer them.

[PaleoPhil]

What high meat container type does he recommend for forgetful people who might not remember to air their high meats every few days? What about a parfleche?

Has he since come up with another alternative other than feces for cancer victims who refuse to eat high meat?

[TylerDurden]

He recommends ball jars whatever they are.

[RawZi]

What about a parfleche?

Has he since come up with another alternative other than feces for cancer victims who refuse to eat high meat?

    What's parfleche?

    I think he comes up with different things.  I'm not even sure if he suggests high meat to all of them.  I think it depends on the glandular and iridology analysis.

He recommends ball jars whatever they are.

    They're a brand name of mason jars?  I have no idea where the name mason came for jar anyway.

[cherimoya_kid]

He recommends ball jars whatever they are.

It's a 1 quart glass jar, generally used for home canning of foods, but widely used in the traditional foods community for fermentation.

[PaleoPhil]

A parfleche is a hide bag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parfleche. It's what many of the First Nations peoples used to carry pemmican and fat in.

I was wondering if less airtight containers than mason jars might better mimic the natural containers (like grass-lined holes) that first nations people used to make high meats, but I suppose the problem in the modern world is that containers that aren't airtight would stink up the fridge.

Why do Aajonus and his followers apparently suck eggs out of the shell instead of cracking them into a container? Less mess?

He says his family name [Vonderplanitz] means "from the planets." Does anyone know German who can confirm or deny that? Where does he claim this name came from?

Why does Aajonus refrigerate his high meats?

[cherimoya_kid]

Aajonus just made up his name.  I forget what his name was before that.

[RawZi]

A parfleche is a hide bag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parfleche. It's what many of the First Nations peoples used to carry pemmican and fat in.

    I want a parfleche.  Sounds like what the Mongolians made their koumiss in too.

I was wondering if less airtight containers than mason jars might better mimic the natural containers (like grass-lined holes) that first nations people used to make high meats, but I suppose the problem in the modern world is that containers that aren't airtight would stink up the fridge.

    I have poked holes in the top of a small mason jar to ferment a tiny portion of chicken.  It was small enough, and the holes so tiny that it really didn't pose a problem.  Having vegan friends over, any high meat in clear glass really freaks them out I imagine, but no one has said anything.

Why do Aajonus and his followers apparently suck eggs out of the shell instead of cracking them into a container? Less mess?

    That's a requirement?  I've more often heard him telling people to blend it into milk or kefir.  I think he says if you crack it into a container and leave it that way in the fridge more than a day, it starts losing vitamins.

He says his family name means "from the planets." Does anyone know German who can confirm or deny that? Where does he claim this name came from?

    From a town called Planitz.

Why does Aajonus refrigerate his high meats?

    I wish he would say.

[RawZi]

Aajonus just made up his name.  I forget what his name was before that.

    John Richard aka Dick Vonderplanitz.

[TylerDurden]

    John Richard aka Dick Vonderplanitz.

From what I understand, he has other past aliases such as "Swigart" , "Brock Bison " etc.

[PaleoPhil]

"Why does Aajonus refrigerate his high meats?"

  .... I wish he would say.

So that's a good question to ask him at his lecture.

I only question him because when watching his video's. I found that he gave different answers to different sources to how he got started on RVAF or his Primal diet. Ex; 1. was a dream with an old Indian chief,2. was when he spent time with eskimos,3. he was trying to kill himself.  Instead of stating that all 3 lead him to raw meat. He also comes off as a con artist(to many claims without any proof.)

I noticed this too. He has told seemingly conflicting stories. As I recall, one said a fox in the desert gave him his first raw meat, another said the Inuit did and it was traditional "stinky fish." Maybe it was a multi-stage process, I don't know. That's another good question for Aajonus.

"This evening, the sixty-year-old Vonderplanitz (who’s also been known as John Richard Swigart, John Planitz, Richard Garritt and Brock Bison)" http://meatalovestory.com/excerpt.html

Another question is why did he change his name so many times and what was his name at birth?

[RawZi]

So that's a good question to ask him at his lecture.

    Sure.  I'd like to hear someone ask it.

Another question is why did he change his name so many times and what was his name at birth?

    I believe his birth name was John Richard Vonderplanitz.  I think the other names were stage names for working in soap operas.

    Is you real name Phil?  Some people like changing their name, some don't.  Of course there are out-for-no-good con-artists who change their name, but there are positive reasons too.

[TylerDurden]

It's very common (for non-criminals) in the Los Angeles area to have several different aliases, especially if they have several different types of occupation.

[pc701]

so i met and went to his lecture last saturday, I didnt ask any of the questions you guys posted.His workshop lasted 6+hours  plus. And throughout that time he was mostly talking.
He talked about some amazing and unbelievable stories. Stories include:
1.A severly shy guy that is scared of people.The guy tries high meat and then all his shyness/social phobia goes away and now he 2 girlfriends and he's only 6/10 on appeareances.
2.A very cynical, negative,non-positive outlook women, tried the high meat and now she's an amateur comedian

There were only about 15-20 people at his workshop.

And he said he met a primitve tribe in the philipines that just ate coconuts,raw fish and some fruits and that they were big like gorillas and that they lived up to 147 years old.

[TylerDurden]

Well I can believe the high-meat stories(up to a point, I'm sure he's exaggerating). High-meat is so effective at boosting one's mood due to all the extra bacteria firing up the mind and body and it's far more useful than other stimulants as there are no nasty side-effects.

[majormark]

...
And he said he met a primitve tribe in the philipines that just ate coconuts,raw fish and some fruits and that they were big like gorillas and that they lived up to 147 years old.

I listened to a radio interview in which he mentions this.

How does he know they lived up to 147 years old? I don't think they are registered anywhere?

Most probably he just asked one of them how old they are and they asnswered something like "oh, I'm 147, but who's counting..."

[felicity]

as far as the primitive tribe in asia goes (was just one, of many protected ones of the many islands in the area. they don't want people visiting these tribes and "tainting" them, so to speak)-

he was denied access by the government to visit any native tribes. they went as far as to blacklist his name so that he could not rent any cars from car rental agencies. he has to rent cars from locals.

I forget who-what-why, but there was a local woman, with dark skin, her boyfriend/husband so dark almost black, yet their baby was near white. AV asked her what she was feeding the child. she told him about "the greatest thing", powdered milk mixed with water. he suggested fresh milk, the baby gained its colour and health, and the father of the girl was so thankful. he asked aajonus how he could repay him, and aajonus still wanted access to these tribes. I think the guy worked with the government somehow, but even he couldn't get permission. he told aajonus he would take him, himself, to his tribe which he left 20 years before. something like 3 days in itself to travel to, through jungle and water.

again exact details a bit blurry in my mind, but I think he still wasn't allowed completely in and they sent people out to speak to him, with the help of someone translating. they told him they sent out the middle aged peoples. middle age was 80 years old in this tribe.

he explained their diets. it was 2lbs of raw fish daily. and one hard meat coconut, the males ate a whole one and the females just half. and once or twice a week, 1 piece of fruit, a banana or a mango. the fish was more bone than meat, and they chewed on the bones.

Aajonus said that he never thought he would see anyone as big and strong as these peoples, eating just fish and coconut, because he gets very skinny eating only fish, and he can't get fat eating coconuts either. I can attest to the same thing generally happening to my body in the past.

is that really some kind of unbelievable story?

as for the 147 year comment, he stated at the lecture before that all other animals live 7 times the age of their maturity. we reach maturity at 21, therefor we should be able to live to 147. I think the potential is there, especially today with all of the knowledge available, and things such as food supply being quite steady, with less risks of deficiencies and starvation. an individual can create a lot of mental stress for themselves, but in general our lives are so much more convenient and easier than the lives of our ancestors. there's less physical stress and hard times. with real food and the will to live, why couldn't people stay alive well into the 100s?


I think all of the wonkyness that surrounds Aajonus and his claims, comes from the lack of a complete explanation or understanding. like a game of broken telephone, then the stories do sound outrageous. I wonder if anyone who is anti AV or anti Primal diet has ever had a mini or full consult, or even just gone to one of his lectures. it seems more like a case of people picking apart what they hear online.


on the high meats - if they are made outside the fridge then the breakdown happens twice as fast as when refrigerated. I would assume he refrigerates for the same reason we all refrigerate anything, to keep our food "fresh" (as fresh as high meat can be, that is). for preservation and convenience.

how can we assume he refrigerates all of his high meat anyway? because of one ripley's believe it or not video from how many years back?

and on his introduction to raw meats-

he traveled up and down the west coast to many tribes. from mexico up to alaska. they all told him to eat raw meat, but he thought that they just wanted to make the white man sick. he also told the story about the wolves bringing him the dead rabbit, I think it happened after he had left alaska. he was trying to fast to death. after he ate the rabbit and felt better, he realized that all the tribes people were telling the truth.

[William]

as for the 147 year comment, he stated at the lecture before that all other animals live 7 times the age of their maturity. we reach maturity at 21, therefor we should be able to live to 147. I think the potential is there, especially today with all of the knowledge available, and things such as food supply being quite steady, with less risks of deficiencies and starvation.

Human age of maturity is 32 - that's when the final growth of a hard layer is put on the ends of bones. So ~224 is possible, and see the story of Old Tom Parr.
21 is just traditional legal maturity.
"Food" supply is not steady - I was lucky to find a source of what I presently think is food, and still haven't found a source of pure fat, which is the important part of it.
"Food" found in foodstores guarantees malnutrition/deficiencies/toxins, unlikely to pass 90 years of age on that stuff unless you smoke good cigars and have good taste in booze.

he also told the story about the wolves bringing him the dead rabbit, I think it happened after he had left alaska. he was trying to fast to death. after he ate the rabbit and felt better, he realized that all the tribes people were telling the truth.

They were coyotes. No wolves in the desert east of California.

[PaleoPhil]

   Sure.  I'd like to hear someone ask it.

   I believe his birth name was John Richard Vonderplanitz.  I think the other names were stage names for working in soap operas.

...

Cool, I'm getting lots of the questions answered right here. So it doesn't seem fair of Susan Bourette to have mentioned all his names without including that explanatory context. Her article did seem to focus on painting a negative picture of Aajonus, as most in the media do, unsurprisingly.

I like this comment by Aajonus I came across. It applies to the RPD too: “You have to know that a weird diet like this has to work or people wouldn’t be doing it. It is catching on like crazy.”

   Is you real name Phil?  

If I told you what it is I'd have to kill you.

I get the sense that some people may be sensitive to questions about Aajonus. When I ask questions they are just that...questions. Nothing more. Not like the insinuations that some in the media seem to make. If the questions bother someone, just let me know and I won't ask any more.

If Aajonus does not wish to reveal the name of the Filipino tribe it would be better not to mention the tribe at all, in my opinion, because there's no way to verify it if it's secret, unless someone else knows about it. GS, have you heard of it? Plus, if they truly wish to remain secret, it's better for Aajonus not to make any mention of them or their country so they can stay secret.

how can we assume he refrigerates all of his high meat anyway? because of one ripley's believe it or not video from how many years back?

I can't speak for others, but I meant "Why does he refrigerate ANY high meats?" If "fresh" (chilled) high meat is better than non-"fresh"/room temperature high meat, why is that?

he traveled up and down the west coast to many tribes. from mexico up to alaska. they all told him to eat raw meat, but he thought that they just wanted to make the white man sick. he also told the story about the wolves bringing him the dead rabbit, I think it happened after he had left alaska. he was trying to fast to death. after he ate the rabbit and felt better, he realized that all the tribes people were telling the truth.

Yeah, I thought it might have been a multi-stage story like that, which would explain the differences.

[RawZi]

Cool, I'm getting lots of the questions answered right here. So it doesn't seem fair of Susan Bourette to have mentioned all his names without including that explanatory context. Her article did seem to focus on painting a negative picture of Aajonus, as most in the media do, unsurprisingly.

I like this comment by Aajonus I came across. It applies to the RPD too: “You have to know that a weird diet like this has to work or people wouldn’t be doing it. It is catching on like crazy.”
If I told you what it is I'd have to kill you.

I get the sense that some people may be sensitive to questions about Aajonus. When I ask questions they are just that...questions. Nothing more. Not like the insinuations that some in the media seem to make. If the questions bother someone, just let me know and I won't ask any more.

If Aajonus does not wish to reveal the name of the Filipino tribe it would be better not to mention the tribe at all, in my opinion, because there's no way to verify it if it's secret, unless someone else knows about it. GS, have you heard of it? Plus, if they truly wish to remain secret, it's better for Aajonus not to make any mention of them or their country so they can stay secret.

      I think it's funny that you, me, Tyler and a host of other people talk in open forum asking what his name is, why he has several names, etc, and most of us are using pseudonyms ourselves at the time we are asking and discussing.  I know none of us means harm nor will cause any, it's cool.  I like AV because of his experience with health, etc.  Susan Bourette maybe could have been more fair as you said, but some people will misunderstand no matter what.  Everyone should use their own mind as best they can rather than relying solely on some reporter or news service. 

[pc701]

He comes across as a very honest tell it as it is person.He says to one guy in the audience 'now your too skinny, you should gain weight" or "your too fat" to another.
He once got very emotional and had watery eyes when he mentioned the story of the white baby who was drinking powdered milk, and how he helped the baby.

But i got a feeling that he didnt want to talk/mention about the high-meat eating  since it kind of puts-off people to try the diet. I mean who would really want to eat rotten meat for the rest of their lives?

So while he was doing his min-consults which were kind-of like palm reading he said to every person who got one that they should drink lots of eggs. never have i heard him mention raw meat or rotten/high meat.I didnt get the mini-consult which cost 40$ because i was skeptical about that practice.Through the palm reading  and touching he supposedly figured out how your digestive system is doing how your ovaries, and testicles, and and i forgot what else.

[RawZi]

But i got a feeling that he didnt want to talk/mention about the high-meat eating  since it kind of puts-off people to try the diet. I mean who would really want to eat rotten meat for the rest of their lives?

    It's probably one in a million who needs high meat every day the rest of their life, and I think he would have them try regular raw meat first. 

So while he was doing his min-consults which were kind-of like palm reading he said to every person who got one that they should drink lots of eggs. never have i heard him mention raw meat or rotten/high meat.I didnt get the mini-consult which cost 40$ because i was skeptical about that practice.Through the palm reading  and touching he supposedly figured out how your digestive system is doing how your ovaries, and testicles, and and i forgot what else.

    I wonder why he didn't mention raw meat.

    When he read my hands (and I was eating and living vegan at the time which I had not told him at all) time, he said I totally lack healing (growth?) hormones.  I was supposed to have been eating primal diet at the time, but I was not, and only my closest family members knew.

[felicity]

Human age of maturity is 32 - that's when the final growth of a hard layer is put on the ends of bones. So ~224 is possible, and see the story of Old Tom Parr.
21 is just traditional legal maturity.
"Food" supply is not steady - I was lucky to find a source of what I presently think is food, and still haven't found a source of pure fat, which is the important part of it.
"Food" found in foodstores guarantees malnutrition/deficiencies/toxins, unlikely to pass 90 years of age on that stuff unless you smoke good cigars and have good taste in booze.

They were coyotes. No wolves in the desert east of California.

224 then, even better! ha

Yes, the food in the grocery stores isn't worth consuming. it can be very difficult to source quality food, but it is available. people do live to be 90, 100 or older even, consuming the garbage that is generally available today. still I bet if they were asked, there would be a story to tell of a childhood raised on traditional foods. I can't imagine that today's young generation will make it all that far consuming what is considered to be "food".

anyway the point I was trying to make... it seems, to me anyways, that if there were to be a point in history where living beyond 100 became the norm, the way to go about it consciously feels like it's here today. what I meant about food supply was... I guess thinking of hunter gatherer ancestors, what their average life expectancy was. even though they consumed something of a "perfect diet", it could be argued that they didn't live very long. but I think due to the factors like hunting, stresses of it and food supply. we may have to search high and low and call different people for our foods, but acquiring foods today seems like a much easier and more secure process. not even that far back, my own grandparents went through war and famine. maybe I'm wrong but for some reason I don't see that in my future. the highest quality may sometimes not be available, but generally something always is. we have the choice today of what we do or do not consume. my grandparents may have had better food than what I even try and source now - but I don't think they thought of food in the way I do today. they didn't really get any choice in food supply - it was eat to live, survival.

my bad on the wolves. coyotes. I was thinking without thinking.

[felicity]

If Aajonus does not wish to reveal the name of the Filipino tribe it would be better not to mention the tribe at all, in my opinion, because there's no way to verify it if it's secret, unless someone else knows about it. GS, have you heard of it? Plus, if they truly wish to remain secret, it's better for Aajonus not to make any mention of them or their country so they can stay secret.

I can't speak for others, but I meant "Why does he refrigerate ANY high meats?" If "fresh" (chilled) high meat is better than non-"fresh"/room temperature high meat, why is that?
Yeah, I thought it might have been a multi-stage story like that, which would explain the differences.

Aajonus mentioned that there were many, many islands in the area. so who knows just how many different tribes are living in those islands, and maybe elsewhere in the world. from my understanding, the government doesn't want any outsiders reaching any of them. he said that he told the government he only wanted to study them, he wasn't going to try and change them, and still he was denied. I think he said something about how they would probably kill you if you went without permission, which is why he didn't just go off on his own. and he may have mentioned a name, I don't remember. still, I would have no idea of where to even begin looking. what path to take through a 3 day jungle excursion. and simply just making my way to asia. I don't think his story of it is in the least compromising to the tribe. truth or not, we may never know, but it doesn't seem unlikely to me.


again on high meat, not an answer from him but it just seems like convenience. one could experiment with both. warmer temperatures just lead to faster breakdown. high meat might be the "best" if it were made outdoors, buried in the earth. added soil organisms, live bugs, etc.

[William]

again on high meat, not an answer from him but it just seems like convenience. one could experiment with both. warmer temperatures just lead to faster breakdown. high meat might be the "best" if it were made outdoors, buried in the earth. added soil organisms, live bugs, etc.

IIRC he got the idea from Inuit who wrapped a piece of meat in fat, then  skin, and buried in dirt covered with rocks so scavengers would not get it. What people are likely to miss is that this was on the north coast of America, where the soil is permanently frozen 2 inches down. Permafrost. So it would have been at refrigerator temperatures, and maybe he is just repeating a winning recipe.
And there's a vague memory from my fermenting days that different microbes flourish at different temperatures.

I don't know if he or anyone has tried both warm and cold high meat making, for the sake of comparing the results.