advice for taking it easy on the liver

[Craig Magnon]

I've been having good luck in some respects since going raw--more physical energy, not much increase in mental sharpness but more consistent mental energy without the ups and downs.  I've been doing pretty well with finding grass-fed beef and some organ meats but haven't yet been able to find any grass-fed suet.  I've found pastured pig back fat from a local farmer's market and have been using that primarily as my fat source.  I've recently given up coconut oil for a while experimentally, but all the animal fat I've been eating now has gives me a fairly persistent pain in my liver ranging from dull to mildly acute--tolerable yet worrisome.  Though I'm pleased with the benefits of the diet along with the liver pain my bowel movements float and are marbled clay and brown--as I understand it signs of poor fat absorption.  Also sudden dry skin and even a few dandruff flakes--neither of these were problems prior to the diet.

Does anyone have advise for easing into this while maintaining my fat requirements?  I avoid dairy as eating it regularly has made me mucousy in the past though I've never tried raw.  I know I can get my hands on raw milk, but I haven't yet seen raw butter.  If I make my own butter from the milk can I clarify it at temps which would still classify it as raw or do the milk solids only separate at higher temps?  I have obligations which keep me from my pig guy for the next couple of weeks so it's a good excuse to try something else.  I've seen mentioned on the forum that increasing fat content can take some time to adjust to but haven't found much in the way of specifics for easing the burden.  I guess I've been going with the bulldozer approach so far.  Should I continue with this and wait for my body to adjust or is there a better way?

I never had this problem with coconut oil which I assume is attributed to the difference in fatty acid chain length.  I eat two meals a day at this point.  The only thought I had was to include animal fat for one meal and coconut fat for the other until my body improves its fat digestion capacity.  I could give up coconut oil later when this ability improves, but maybe there's a better solution.

[ys]

To know for sure if you are not digesting fat properly you would have to take your stool to the lab.

If in fact you have problems with fat digestion I would reduce fat intake and play with different amounts to see at which point it starts giving problems.

When you ingest just fat and nothing else do you still get the same symptoms?

[ys]

Another thought.  When fat is ingested, gall bladder releases massive amounts of bile.  Could it be that bile duct is blocked somewhere?

Also, bile is manufactured in the liver.  Could it be liver is having hard time manufacturing bile.

I would do blood test to check for major liver functions.

[TylerDurden]

There have been several reports re coconut oil being either hamrful or simply not as effective as raw animal fat. As far as dairy is concerned, if you're experiencing issues with pasteurised dairy, then that is a very strong indication that you will also have problems with raw dairy as well, even raw butter. Some Primal Dieters dispute this, but it is a fact that Primal Dieters report far more side-effects than rawpalaeos(though they prefer to call them "detoxes").

Your best bet, IMO, is to up the amounts of  raw carbs, and then gradually increase your intake of raw animal fats as your body adapts.

[Craig Magnon]

Another thought.  When fat is ingested, gall bladder releases massive amounts of bile.  Could it be that bile duct is blocked somewhere?

ys, this is possible.  your comment reminded me of an incident from about two months back, before I'd incorporated any raw meat, when I was having a similar feeling in my liver area.  There was sudden unexplained relief one day with the result that my BMs turned from their usual green color to brown which I remember reading somewhere that the green color is due to insufficient bile production/secretion.  My thought is that there was some sort of obstruction that suddenly cleared.  If this is the problem it's obviously not completely unobstructed.  I would like to have some diagnostics run but I'm unemployed and uninsured.  I don't know what would happen if I included fat alone--I'll have to try it and report back.

Ha, I was reading back my initial post and feel sorry for the person who searches the forum on advice regarding marbled cuts of meat and ends up with all the vivid details of my bowel movements with no prior warning.  Oh well, I guess those are the risks of the forum.

Your best bet, IMO, is to up the amounts of  raw carbs, and then gradually increase your intake of raw animal fats as your body adapts.

Tyler, I think this is what I'm going to do; add a few carbs and play with lower levels of fat as ys mentioned too.  I'm trying to stay away from the coconut oil and butter, but along the lines of my earlier post, is raw clarified butter possible and if so are the dairy risks still present when the solids have been removed?

[TylerDurden]

Tyler, I think this is what I'm going to do; add a few carbs and play with lower levels of fat as ys mentioned too.  I'm trying to stay away from the coconut oil and butter, but along the lines of my earlier post, is raw clarified butter possible and if so are the dairy risks still present when the solids have been removed?

Yes, they are. I've heard claims that only ghee is harmless, but even that contains traces of harmful substances and is in addition cooked. So, best to avoid all dairy whatsoever.

[raw]

Craig Magnon, i'm also new in this diet. i continue the raw butter as a source of raw fat last couple of months . it is just cool, until now i'm getting the fresh lamb suet, and i'm loving this. i never like to eat coconut oil, but i use this as sun screen on my body. my toddler gets his message every day with raw coconut oil. i also find that, if you're out of raw fat temporarily, cod liver oil works (even taking 1tsp). you can eat also lots of wild caught salmon's skins as raw fat. in whole food market, they often sell grass fed bone marrows and they're also good fats. i like to eat my fats completely raw. i just don't believe in tallow or do some processing which is wasting of times to me. i'm sure that soon you'll be fine.