edema

[Ioanna]

Well, I thought things were going great... the last (and only?) time I wrote in my journal was to report such an expected but complete change that my digestion (from IBS) seems completely normal... and still does. 

I've notice these past two nights though that when I get home from work that my ankles have been huge!  Unusual is that I have had to sit most of these past two days due to meetings, computer work, etc.  I'm usually on my feet more.  My dietary intake hasn't changed any though.  I know edema is a sign that something isn't right, so.... any ideas?

[cherimoya_kid]

Often edema is worsened by excess sodium and/or not enough potassium.  You may want to eat some potassium-rich food, and go easy on the salt.  I figure you're not using salt, but just in case, I'm mentioning it.

[Ioanna]

thank ck!
recommendations on potassium sources?

[cherimoya_kid]

avocadoes and bananas, particularly bananas.  Someone else may have a better suggestion.  I know you're ZC, right? 

[RawZi]

    Fresh parsley, sage, watermelon rind, cucumbers and zuchini may help.



    This is a fruit that helps the kidneys.  You retaining water sounds like kidney stress to me.

    Immerse in water, better yet walk or exercise in it, and even better yet make it salt water.

[PaleoPhil]

avocadoes and bananas, particularly bananas.  Someone else may have a better suggestion.  I know you're ZC, right? 

I still had potassium deficiency when I ate lots of potassium-rich plant foods like bananas and avocadoes. My potassium deficiency reduced dramatically when I eliminated all plants and started eating only meat, animal fat (mostly suet/tallow), organs, eggs, and seafood.

I got mild edema when I ate too much mead or raw honey.

[Michael]

I think freshly squeezed lemon juice is one of the highest sources of potassium.  A little added to water may help.  As ck mentioned, maybe cut down on the salt too (if you're using it at all).  Sodium and Potassium work together transferring H2O into and out of the cell in a similar way that Calcium and Magnesium work together.

If you're already zc and eating little but meat and fat then it may just be that your salt intake needs to be reduced.

[PaleoPhil]

I also drink mineral water for a little added potassium and magnesium.

[Ioanna]

thanks all!

Seems after those two days I'm completely normal, I don't know what happened?? I do now recall also getting leg (calf) cramps in the middle of the night... is that related?

I'm pretty much zc because that's what works right now... if I eat those potassium-rich fruits, veg, or even lemon juice my colon would spasm.

mineral water could be an option though

[PaleoPhil]

It did take some time for the all-raw meat/fat diet to resolve my potassium and zinc deficiencies--I would say about 3-4 weeks, and mild potassium deficiency cramps can return if I go too long between meals, so my body is still mildly deficient and needs regular replenishment from raw meat. The zinc is more fully resolved and I can go longer between meals without zinc deficiency symptoms, which is not surprising given that meat contains more zinc than potassium.

I generally drink nonsparkling mineral water, because carbonation gives me gas and reflux if I drink too much of it. Carbonation is also an acid (carbonic acid), so my guess is that may also contribute to the reflux discomfort.

If I get a cramp, I find that eating raw meat quickly resolves it. Potassium supplements work even faster (I also chewed them to speed up the absorption--warning: they're salty tasting), but I know they're frowned upon here and I also try to avoid them where possible.  Bananas never worked for me, interestingly.

Magnesium deficiency is another common cause of muscle cramps.

[Ioanna]

thanks Phil!

I will see how things go re edema/leg cramps.  If problems continue I'll have to consider if there is a deficiency and how I"ll correct it.

[RawZi]

If I get a cramp, I find that eating raw meat quickly resolves it. Potassium supplements work even faster (I also chewed them to speed up the absorption--warning: they're salty tasting), but I know they're frowned upon here and I also try to avoid them where possible.  Bananas never worked for me, interestingly.

    Bananas never helped me with anything either.  Raw meat resolves pain for me, not sure about cramps.  It resolves what I can only describe as nitrogen bubble type pains.  It resolves them fast.  Also, I think it is true, that some edemas can be from protein deficiency, and raw meat delivers the best protein to me and it already comes with all the right forms of the right combination of nutrients to assist it helping me.  I was a little swollen for a couple of years, and when I started eating (R)AF it resolved in a couple of weeks, but occasionally it happens again now (when I go off diet).

[wodgina]

I've suffered with cramps and edema in the past.

Magnesium does nothing nor does eating banana's. I'm very skeptical of mineral imbalance causing cramps I believe there's something else going on with the muscles. A study was done where electrolyte levels were measured on marathon runners who were cramping and those who are not. There was no difference.

The edema/cramps are related to some sort of body resetting or transition whether it's weight loss, a switch of glycogen to fat burning or a change in the way the body works as your body is becoming more sedentary.

I can easily bring on cramping with sugar. My whole body starts to cramp and I recently have drunk beer and my abdominal muscles and legs cramp real bad. Luckily lasts for a couple of minutes.

[Ioanna]

as your body is becoming more sedentary

hey!! i just meant at work I was sedentary on those two days... I'm not a sedentary person at all

[goodsamaritan]

Edema / Cramps,

I would suspect dehydration.

I would suspect salt intake (I am against salt, use sparingly, blood is better)

I would suspect kidneys need cleansing or rest, if the zero carber is a cooked meat eater - then cooked meat is the culprit, but in your case, maybe a 1 day water fast will allow the kidneys to rest.

Maybe a good massage using ghee (clarified butter) or virgin coconut oil will do you good as well for circulation.

If it persists I would try other things in my arsenal though they are non paleo stuff.

[RawZi]

Maybe a good massage using ghee (clarified butter) or virgin coconut oil will do you good as well for circulation.

    It is recommended against massaging the part affected by the edema (the ankles in this case), while they are swollen.  On a day they are swollen, get enough rest that night and when in bed put pillow or wedge under legs to elevate them.  If you work by night and sleep by day, just prop your legs up whatever time it is you're in bed, I don't think whether it's light or dark out matters.

[van]

  I have found that sodium, even himalayan sea salt, in anything more than a pinch causes cramping in my calf and foot.  Not sure why, but I can almost control all cramping by reducing or eliminating salt, or any kind.  You might try an experiment to see if salt affects you too.

[Ioanna]

well that firsttimeforme occurrence of ankle edema was a weird two-day thing.  my only explanation is that i was sitting all day in an uncomfortable chair and maybe contorted myself into some position that affected my circulation??

every couple of nights or so I do get cramps in my legs though, not sure what that is about yet.  

[djr_81]

every couple of nights or so I do get cramps in my legs though, not sure what that is about yet.  

I get it when low in body salts, especially Magnesium.
I fix it using an electrolyte additive in water or a bit more salt on my food.
Do you salt your food at all Ionna? It might be worth using a little bit if you don't to see if they go away.

[van]

I have used for some time now, ionic mineral solution which is high in magnesium concentrated from the great salt lake ut.  I like it for it has all the trace mins too.

[djr_81]

I have used for some time now, ionic mineral solution which is high in magnesium concentrated from the great salt lake ut.  I like it for it has all the trace mins too.

Van, do you have a link or directions on how to make it?
I use Body-Bio E-Lyte solution but it's highest in potassium. Magnesium is better than in sea salt but it'd be nice to have an alternative that has higher levels.

[Ioanna]

I hardly ever consume salt... I just forget.

Magnesium could very well be, would explain some things.

I have a pink himalayan salt (pink) and (i think) celtic salt (grey) too... does it matter? Hope the edema doesn't return, lol,  although I've never noticed any water retention with salt consumption before so that shouldn't be.

Van, I'm interested to know about your 'recipe' too.

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, magnesium deficiency is generally my 2nd guess for muscle cramps after potassium deficiency; dehydration is my 3rd guess; calcium def. #4. My approach was to test each, one at a time, to find the main culprit, which turned out to be potassium for me--and it initially required more than the standard 99 mg dose to resolve it for me. The usual foods recommended for potassium, such as bananas, didn't work for me, so I was forced to continue to take supplements until I eventually discovered that eating lots raw red meat every day keeps it at bay. If I go a single day without raw red meat, however, mild cramps start to return. I don't have a good, consistent source at a reasonable price of wild oysters, salmon, and other seafood, but that's another option.

[van]

You can go to www.traceminerals.com and or call 1-801-731-6051 where they can tell you where you can buy, either on line or in a store near you.  I get both the eight ounce white plastic bottle and the individual four ounce glass eye drop bottles with more concentrated particular minerals, such as zinc, and magnesium.  But to give you an example;  one half teaspoon, or 40 drops, gives 250 mg of magnesium while only adding 6 mg of sodium.  And they are in an ionic form.  Hope this helps.   I actually like the way it tastes in my well water.  I add about thirty drops to a quart of water and take it throughout the day.  All at once can give loose stools, which is typical of Magnesium. 

[wodgina]

Is it possible that mineral imbalance is a load of rubbish? Where do we know magnesium cures cramps? or potassium?

We know that if your blood pH goes anywhere outside of 7.2 -7.6 you die. I think the same could be true for minerals, the slightest deviation and your are seriously ill not just a few cramps.