Ori Hofmekler

[Ioanna]

His Warrior Diet has come up in a few threads... Finally had a chance to peruse a couple of his books, and not sure what to make of his books' messages.

His claims are of meal frequency (20hrs "undereat, then 4hr window for a main meal or 'overeat'), timing (evening for the main meal), and what to eat during those two periods. So, he supports for scientific reasons (the nature of cell metabolism) the consumption of eating one large meal a day and eating that meal in the evening.

He claims that we are predisposed to nocturnal evening... I personally have never felt this way, in fact, the complete opposite... I always hated eating late and found sleeping a few hours after a big dinner impossible. My mom is the same way, so eating beyond 6 or 7 pm in the household was not common. I think late night "instincts" that OH refers to are cravings in a cooked, sugar-laden world, not some tendency by human inclination. I mean, what SAD reader is not going to identify with late night cravings??

He claims that we are not yet adapted to eating meat.  Serious?!?  Does this not influence this man's credibility?the epitome of RAF... the one food, if any, we don't have to associate with 'adaptation'... or, maybe if it's cooked?... maybe he doesn't realize we haven't adapted to COOKED meat???

As for only eating once or within one four-hour block?  I don't know... I think I do feel better limiting my food intake to this time frame, but in the morning for me as opposed to evening.  I haven't and don't intend to try 'overeating'... I eat until I'm satisfied and that is sound to me.

I don't agree with the 'undereating' phase either... I either eat, or I don't... if I 'under-ate' all day, my evening meal would be less desirable and afterward would make me feel bloated and heavy whereas if I ate nothing, the evening meal would be more desirous and digestible.

In addition to nutrition, he's got sections on weightlifting that I didn't read, so I didn't make any attempt to understand his opinions here.

I guess the only thing I would even consider applying from his books is the one main meal window per day, but I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts and experiences are and/or were.

[Michael]

The guy sounds like a clown Ioanna!     Based on your description, I don't think I would give ANY of his ideas contemplation.

My own experiences are that I'm functioning far greater on 2 vlc/zc raw paleo meals per day than I was on 3.  I believe Lex only has one meal per day and does well on it.  The difference, however, is that it's not at some crazy hour!  Lex eats at midday which would make more sense to me - schedule allowing.  If I were to only eat 1 meal per day it would probably be early evening.

If on a vlc raw paleo diet, I think 1 meal per day is possible.  I wouldn't even discount the possibility that this would mimic the dining schedule of paleolithic man.

[majormark]

I experimented with this diet early this year after reading his book and I think that at least when we compare it to the SAD it's better.

This diet has some good points (for those interested in them):

- get read of stubborn fat
- loose weight quick (mainly because most people cant down that much food to make a one 2-3k calories meal)
- gives your digestive system a break and allows minor detox
- his advice to eat after physical exercise is embraced by many body builders and it seems to work
- gets read of the 'mid day energy drop'. I experienced more mental clarity throughout the day and I also read some people reporting this. I think this was because I was eating SAD and after each meal I felt sleepy for an hour or so. This does not seem to happen now after I eat butter with honey for example.

Aside from that there could be problems regarding these:

- he promotes alternating carb + protein days and fat + protein days. I never tried that but the idea is to get the body used to switch between these types of fuels
- muscle loss for skinny people because most don't manage to stuff themselves enough. I think to some degree this happened to me when I started with the "eat-stop-eat" diet and finished with the WD.
- feeling like you're going to explode that's how I felt after overeating in some days
- tends to ruin the whole night because you cant really go jumping around after eating that much

[cherimoya_kid]

I used to do the "one meal a day" thing.  I didn't really lose weight, or anything, although I think this would be pretty difficult if you had an active job.  However, I ate my 1 meal around 12 noon, and would never have eaten it later in the evening.  I was working second shift at that time, and going to bed around 1:30 am, so I had a good 12 hours to digest my food. It does make for sound sleep when you have that long to digest.

[invisible]

I like the one meal a day, that's the fundamental part of the diet and I think he's right about that

I do not follow any of his other advice, I think it's poor. The diet as written is very bad for digestion. Eating an entire days worth of carbs and an entire days worth of protein at the same time will create flatulence like you have never experienced.

Ori also has a number of unsubstantiated claims. Firstly the whole calories don't matter claim, he says we can't eat red meat because of the bacteria in it and something about as soon as an animal is dead proteins mutate, thinks we are designed to be mainly vegetarian, believes animal fat is terrible and full of toxins (even grass fed and organic) and constantly pushes the idea that humans evolved to eat nuts and seeds as their main food.

[TylerDurden]

I follow Hofmeykler's diet in that I do 1 large meal a day , most times. He's a heavy supplement-promoter, so I ignore every other instruction.

[Ioanna]

Tyler, did you notice something beneficial when you started one meal per day compared to what you were doing before that?

People eating one meal per day, are you timing it with your workouts, or no matter on that?

[TylerDurden]

Tyler, did you notice something beneficial when you started one meal per day compared to what you were doing before that?

People eating one meal per day, are you timing it with your workouts, or no matter on that?

Absolutely. I noticed that my rate of healing actually increased when I stopped eating all the time. You see, originally, I'd made the same mistake Aajonus made, thinking that if raw meat was good for me, the more I ate of it, the healthier I would become(and at a faster rate). Inevitably, I found out that constant digestion weakens the body, diverting resources that could otherwise be spent on healing. I also did whole-day fasts for 1 to 3 days at a time(say, 3-4 whole-day fasts a fortnight, and it worked for me). What was surprising is that I had adrenal burnout in those days and you're not supposed to fast at all when having that condition as it's supposed to be harmful, but I guess I was the odd one out in this case as it worked wonders for me.

[RawZi]

    I had adrenal burn out and fasted pretty well.  I'm not sure I would recommend it though, and I am not planning to fast again.

[Michael]

Same here.  I was suffering with adrenal insufficiency to the degree that I was taking hydrocortisone and thyroid medication from a specialist Dr in London years ago!  I had dumped the meds by the time I completed my 60 day fast but still had the adrenal problems.  It didn't affect my fast either.  I can understand the concerns about fasting whilst suffering adrenal fatigue but I think it probably depends on the causes of the adrenal problems.  In my case it certainly helped rather than hindered.

I can see how the benefits of fasting can be extrapolated to the reduction in number of daily meals as in intermittent fasting.  In fact, I think over the longer term it would be more beneficial than simply fasting as it provides the periods of rest/regeneration in addition to providing the rebuilding blocks of nutrition (assuming correct diet of course!).  I think 1 meal per day may be excessive as a long-term solution for some, however.  Certainly 2 works well for me.

[majormark]

Have you guys tryed the advice of Aajonus with only eating eggs while fasting?

If you did, let me know how it comares to regular fasting.

[TylerDurden]

Have you guys tryed the advice of Aajonus with only eating eggs while fasting?

If you did, let me know how it comares to regular fasting.

Aajonus also recommends all-raw-milk fasts and the like. They're all a waste of time. Certainly, in my own case - my raw egg-mono-diet was not a success as I seem to develop food-intolerances towards raw eggs if I eat vast amounts of them at a time. Simply put, it's a bad idea to overload the body with constant digestion, far better to give the digestive system a rest so that it can concentrate resources on healing. That's part of the problem with cooked diets - I remember often overeating on cooked foods(no stop signal you see) so that I would often need a siesta after a big meal and the like because of the extra strain on my digestive system.

[Michael]

Have you guys tryed the advice of Aajonus with only eating eggs while fasting?

If you did, let me know how it comares to regular fasting.

In my vegetarian days, I did various fruit fasts (such as grape or kiwi) in addition to water and (believe it or not!) urine fasts but I've never fasted on animal foods.  I'm not convinced that it'd be a wise thing to do for the reasons stated by Tyler.  Eggs, particularly, sounds like a really bad idea but then AV is full of bizarre ideas?!   

[RawZi]

    I am interested to try fasting on eggs sometime in the future, possibly with the addition of celery/zucchini/cilantro juice.

    Tyler, what were the sources of the eggs on your fast?

    From what I heard from AV, he's not very happy with all milk fasts.  I suppose he thinks it's a little better than being any kind of vegan.  You mean the milk cure diet, right?  To me it seems he really feels adults need meat for their health.

[Raw Kyle]

I have both of his books. Anyone want them? It's interesting, the guy is in good shape, and understands a lot more about natural foods then mainstream nutritionists. He says some crazy things though, that eating pizza is so pleasurable because it imitates biting into an animal. I'd say it's really because the two main ingredients, wheat and cheese, have addictive chemicals in them.

[TylerDurden]

I have both of his books. Anyone want them? It's interesting, the guy is in good shape, and understands a lot more about natural foods then mainstream nutritionists. He says some crazy things though, that eating pizza is so pleasurable because it imitates biting into an animal. I'd say it's really because the two main ingredients, wheat and cheese, have addictive chemicals in them.

I agree. It's the opioids.

[TylerDurden]

      Tyler, what were the sources of the eggs on your fast?

   From what I heard from AV, he's not very happy with all milk fasts.  I suppose he thinks it's a little better than being any kind of vegan.  You mean the milk cure diet, right?  To me it seems he really feels adults need meat for their health.

 I agree AV has stated that raw meat is better for rebuilding than raw eggs or raw dairy, but I'm pretty sure he's recommended all-raw-milk fasts at times - it's certainly practised by other RVAF movements.

Re eggs:- My raw eggs were taken from geese(partially pastured/partially grainfed), ducks(most likely 100% grainfed), and quail(no idea but they tasted great) - in those days I occasionally supplemented with pheasant eggs.

My 1 ambition is to try seagull eggs but they cost a minumum 5 pounds sterling per (small) egg and are only available in selected shops in c. April.

[van]

  Not that AV is getting strictly grass fed eggs, probably quite the contrary, but I think you should discount your failed results on the egg fast until you were to try all grass fed eggs.  I can't stress enough what the difference is with my chickens, and my years experimenting with my goats and their goat milk when fed grains, and not fed grains and being on a strict diet of green pasture.  I am a firm believer that grain comes through in some form into their milk, and with chickens, their eggs. I am sure some would say 'rubbish', but I say let them have the direct experience before they make up their minds.   

[Michael]

  Not that AV is getting strictly grass fed eggs, probably quite the contrary, but I think you should discount your failed results on the egg fast until you were to try all grass fed eggs.  I can't stress enough what the difference is with my chickens, and my years experimenting with my goats and their goat milk when fed grains, and not fed grains and being on a strict diet of green pasture.  I am a firm believer that grain comes through in some form into their milk, and with chickens, their eggs. I am sure some would say 'rubbish', but I say let them have the direct experience before they make up their minds.   

Wow van!  Now I am envious of your situation.  I long to have goats and chickens - a throw back to my utopian vegetarian dream!     It's certainly still my intention to raise them at some point in the future and it will be in a similar manner to you.  I thoroughly agree that any foods from these animals needs to come from them being purely pasture fed.  This is something I've found to only be possible by having your own animals.  I've NEVER seen a goat raised on anything but dried foods (albeit mainly dried grass) and certainly no chickens not fed grain.  In fact, I'd been led to believe that goats start getting serious health issues when eating too much fresh grass!  I'd be fascinated to hear your experiences?!

Re eggs:- My raw eggs were taken from geese(partially pastured/partially grainfed), ducks(most likely 100% grainfed), and quail(no idea but they tasted great) - in those days I occasionally supplemented with pheasant eggs.
My 1 ambition is to try seagull eggs but they cost a minumum 5 pounds sterling per (small) egg and are only available in selected shops in c. April.

From my own desperate search for eggs from birds fed no grain Tyler, it seems that all ducks raised commercially for eggs in the UK are sustained almost exclusively on compound feeds unfortunately.  Wild eggs are the only way to go but, of course, they're illegal!

I have both of his books. Anyone want them? It's interesting, the guy is in good shape, and understands a lot more about natural foods then mainstream nutritionists. He says some crazy things though, that eating pizza is so pleasurable because it imitates biting into an animal. I'd say it's really because the two main ingredients, wheat and cheese, have addictive chemicals in them.

I'm not sure AV's in great shape though.  Have you seen these pictures of him http://www.bodytemplebootcamp.com/Photos-Map-new.htm.  I suppose he looks well for his age but I think people here are probably in much better shape.
I agree.  I do have respect for AV and think that he does alot of good stuff.  He was a part of the journey that got me, and others I believe, to RPD so I'm certainly grateful for that.  I think much of the information in his books is good too.  But, he certainly has some bizarre ideas too and never seems to substantiate his claims.

[Raw Kyle]

Michael, I was talking about Ori Hofmekler, not AV. I think AV looks fine for his age. He's very vocal about the fact that he doesn't exercise. I think he looks great for a 60 year old guy who doesn't exercise.

And about grass fed eggs, chickens don't eat much grass in the wild. They eat bugs, light vegetation, and *gasp* seeds (grains).

[invisible]

I've fasted before eating nothing but suet. Eating any protein or carbohydrates breaks the fasted feeling, eating just fat keeps that 'fasted' state the most, probably because it effects blood sugar the least.

[Ioanna]

do you recall how much and how often you ate?  did you your bowels have to go through adjustment? did your body composition change at all?  mental sharpness?

sorry for all the questions... I've thought about trying something like that before, but 100% fat makes me feel nauseous so I didn't force it.

[TylerDurden]

From my own desperate search for eggs from birds fed no grain Tyler, it seems that all ducks raised commercially for eggs in the UK are sustained almost exclusively on compound feeds unfortunately.  Wild eggs are the only way to go but, of course, they're illegal!

Not absolutely  all wild eggs are illegal. I gave an example of those raw wild seagull eggs that are allowed to be sold(in very limited, rationed quantities) around April/early May.

[TylerDurden]

And about grass fed eggs, chickens don't eat much grass in the wild. They eat bugs, light vegetation, and *gasp* seeds (grains).

Well, I wouldn't count all seeds as the same as grains, IMO. As for grains. yes they're a small part of their diet, but wild jungle fowl do not eat 70(?)-100% grain-filled diets, like with most domesticated fowl. The point I was making is that since chickens are natural omnivores that they ideally should perhaps be eating as much raw animal food as raw plant food. Plus, there is concern that RVAFers sensitive to grains don't do well when eating meat/eggs from even partially-grainfed animals.

[invisible]

do you recall how much and how often you ate?  did you your bowels have to go through adjustment? did your body composition change at all?  mental sharpness?

sorry for all the questions... I've thought about trying something like that before, but 100% fat makes me feel nauseous so I didn't force it.

I just ate once a day, but no muscle meat that day, so probably ate 70% maintenance calories. I think a complete fast would be better. I felt like a fast but wanted to eat something to not lose weight. I have never eaten 100% fat for more than a day. Would like to try it though.