Raw Unheated Honey

[PaleoPhil]

I like the Wee Bee honey and Heavenly Organics Organic Wild Forest Raw Neem Honey. I tried small containers of quite a few honeys and found the range of tastes and effects to be surprisingly wide. All honey is certainly not the same.

AV did make a lot of extravagant claims, which I take with a grain of salt, along with the claims of many other gurus. While honey is not a necessity to digest meat, some have reported various benefits from raw honey, and my own overal digestion improved a bit (mostly with carbs and acidic foods, rather than meats), so it's not completely implausible that honey might improve still more people's digestion.

It's also possible to go too far in the other direction. We could use the excuse of lack of necessity to avoid eating almost any particular natural food. Is there any single specific essential food aside from water?

[raw-al]

AV was right often enough that when he was really wrong it was hard to know.

However my iron clad rule is that if something gives me a hard time, I avoid it.

Heated honey is specifically mentioned in Ayurveda as being a no-no. It's toxic. However unheated honey and especially if you can luck into some wild honey is a yes-yes, but if it bothers you then avoid it. I cannot tolerate heated honey but raw with coconut cream and or butter is awesome. We went through a very long period of eating lots of it regularly.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

Ok, it was also foolish of me to place 100% blame on raw honey. I just assumed it was the cause because of all the sugar. I Havnt eaten any raw honey in 3 days, and a new pimple formed, very strange for me, I'm usually acne free. Must be a reaction to something else.

[Joy2012]

I haven't read this entire thread, but I was wondering if anyone knew if Trader Joe's Raw Organic Honey is really raw.. because I know a lot of times things are labeled as raw but they don't mean it's unheated.  I think it is unheated though, because the honey is thick and solid and opaque rather than runny amber and see-through.. but there's nothing on the label saying if its unheated or unprocessed or anything. 

If there is nothing on the label saying that it is unheated and preserves enzymes etc., I would assume it is heated. Honey can be heated to 160 degrees and still claims to be raw.

[PaleoPhil]

FYI: That question from Wolf was from years ago, though maybe she'll still be interested in the answer.

Now that Aajonus is gone, does anyone have his list of producers and distributors of honey that he verified as really raw (unheated, cold packed)?

I know that Aajonus verified Really Raw, Honey Pacifica, Sweet William of Earlville Raw Honey and some other honeys as unheated (ie, the temperature did not rise above 92.8 F), which was his maximum allowable temperature to cerifty a honey as unheated (Source: We Want to Live).

If you want the truly unheated honey from Honey Pacifica, make sure it's advertized as "cold packed." They also have their "regular" honeys heated up to 100°F, which is noted here: http://www.hotfrog.com/Companies/Honey-Pacifica/Unfiltered-Honey-Natural-Honey-Unprocessed-Honey-Best-Honey-1265146

Here is a list of honeys that have been claimed to be unheated, aka cold-packed (I'm not saying that they necessarily are; I think all are American):

Really Raw
Honey Pacifica
Sweet William of Earlville Raw Honey
Pureliving Honey (claimed to be both unheated and unsmoked http://www.sleepingbearfarms.com/shop/honey/raw-honey?gclid=CO3Z6oaxm8MCFfLm7Aodu2AADQ)
YS Organic
Honey Garden Apiaries
Honey in the Rough
Volcano Island Honey Company
San Marcos Farms
Bill's Bees
Bill McDonough & Family
Famous Questa Honey
Heavenly Organics
Stakich
Champlain Valley Apiaries (Vermont)
Honey Gardens Apitherapy (Vermont)

[eveheart]

Another possibility is to visit the beekeepers' guild in your area (the one in my area meets once a month). You can talk to various beekeepers in your area and find the ones who will hand-pack their honey for you instead of using a heated centrifuge.

[raw-al]

Actually I am not aware of anyone in our club using a heated centrifuge.

Here is a forum to ask about local beeks:

http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php

[Joy2012]

I have always wondered how raw honey is kept clean during the packing process.  Does anyone know about the sanitary aspect of gathering/packing honey?

[van]

If they have harvested the honey at the right time (letting the bees drive off the excess water from the nectar with their wings by fanning it) then really nothing will live in honey.

[jessica]

Basically just by using clean tools in a clean environment.  Most often I have seen small time bee keepers harvest with stainless steel knives, bowls, strainers and sometimes centrifuge and store in large, covered stainless steel vats with a spigot on the bottom,( if you are lucky, some also store in plastic buckets and containers). Or cut comb directly into containers for sale.  Pure honey from healthy bees  is naturally antimirobial.

[Joy2012]

Thanks. Now I feel much better about eating honey.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

Ive been trying out the Heavenly Organics Himalayan Honey Acia. It has given me a sore/course/rough throat. i sound like im loosing my voice. Anyone else experience something similar with this brand, or any other?

[PaleoPhil]

I'm not a fan of acacia honey, but I don't recall getting a sore throat from that brand, though I have gotten throat irritation from certain other honeys.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

Could the burning/soar throat feeling we get from raw honey be an enzyme effect? Similar to eating to much pineapple?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/301343-foods-with-naturally-occurring-digestive-enzymes/#page=2

It would be interesting to find out, and help strengthen AVs raw honey claims.

[ciervo-chaman]

i have found this note on a study about enzyme pills:

"Swallow amylase/lipase/protease delayed-release capsules whole with enough liquid to swallow it completely. Do not break, crush, chew, or hold amylase/lipase/protease delayed-release capsules in your mouth before swallowing. Doing so may increase the risk of mouth or tongue irritation from amylase/lipase/protease delayed-release capsules. Follow with a glass of water or juice. Contact your doctor if you experience mouth or tongue irritation while taking amylase/lipase/protease delayed-release capsules."


http://www.drugs.com/cdi/amylase-lipase-protease-delayed-release-capsules.html


what do you think, a tribe called paleo?

i think you are right with your assertion on tongue burn being due to enzyme.

it can be a good experiment to have some raw honey, and then, heat a teaspoon, and see if it still burns the tongue or mouth. i don't know if 100% of enzymes are destroyed by heat, but, they suposedly do when lightly heated.
same with fruits high in enzymes like pinneaple, mango, papaya (do you know any else?)

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

Im almost positive it is the enzymes in honey that caused that reaction.

Ive had similar effects with mango and pineapple. Too much pineapple will burn my lips and make my teeth hurt! mangos have a similar effect but not nearly as intense.

[PaleoPhil]

Pineapple and some unfermented honeys cause the most burning/itching for me, or at least used to. Pine nuts too. I get it mostly on the roof of my mouth, the back of my throat and the sides of my tongue. I seem to get less of the burning these days, so I occasionally have a small amount of fresh pineapple. I don't get it from mango, at least not that I notice. I love atulfo mangoes.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

It only happens if the mango is unripe. Which i try to avoid as much as possible. i feel all fruit should be eaten ripe, and sweet as possible.

[PaleoPhil]

Not all fruits are climacteric (continue to ripen after picking). With non-climacteric fruits (such as blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, watermelons, cherries, grapes, grapefruit, lemons and limes), the general rule is the fresher, the better.

I tried testing climacteric fruits ripened very thoroughly, at the suggestion of raw vegans who seemed to know their fruits, but found that I actually had worse results that way with some and the safest course for me seemed to be to return to mostly minimizing intake of certain fruits like bananas and limit myself to wild berries and small amounts of other fruits. Then I learned from fellow RPD member MuhammadSunshine about prebiotics like resistant starch. I was "resistant" to the info he shared at first, but eventually put it to the test and found that my experience has turned out to be the opposite of the standard advice when it comes to starchy fruit, such as bananas and plantains--that I have better blood glucose and less carb intolerance symptoms when I eat more of my fruits/carbs in less-ripened resistant form (I still like my fresh figs thoroughly ripe, though, and just limit my intake
 ). I wrote about it in resistant starch threads. Of course, YMMV and I'm not telling you what to do. Also, it hasn't been a cure-all panacea for me. I continue to learn and it's a work in progress for me.

And I actually got some of that annoying chapped lower lip (though no burning) after eating a mango today. It was less ripe than most I've had, so I'll keep your experience in mind, in case it's related (and I'm not certain that it was the mango that caused it). I know I have sometimes seemed to react to the acidity in certain foods and wonder if that could be a factor for me in less-ripe mango, though it wouldn't seem to explain why I handle lemons better than most fruits. It can be puzzling.

[raw-al]

Not all fruits are climacteric (continue to ripen after picking). With non-climacteric fruits (such as blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, watermelons, cherries, grapes, grapefruit, lemons and limes), the general rule is the fresher, the better.

Thanks, I didn't know that. Makes sense tho.

[dariorpl]

Not all fruits are climacteric (continue to ripen after picking). With non-climacteric fruits (such as blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, watermelons, cherries, grapes, grapefruit, lemons and limes), the general rule is the fresher, the better.

I'm not sure about the other fruits you named, but the lemons I know absolutely do ripen. I always allow them to ripen because that way they have more juice, and the juice seems to be more sweet, and less starchy, or something. The acidity either stays the same or goes up when ripe. Maybe it depends on the variety of lemon? Or maybe the ones you get are always picked ripe?

I think cherries may ripen after picked, too. I like them unripe because they're tart, and if ripe they become too sweet and lose their acidity. I could be wrong about this though, because I'm not sure if I ever allowed them to ripen in the counter after buying them. I can feast on the acidic type, unripe cherries, but once they become too sweet, I can only have a handful or two at a time.

[eveheart]

Lemons do ripen further after picking, but tree-ripened lemons are sweeter than off-tree ripeners. Probably has something to do with brix, which would suggest that off-tree lemons are not "truly" ripe, even if they turn from green to yellow. OTOH, since lemons are usually used in small quantities to make other foods tart, off-tree ripening has good culinary value.

[dariorpl]

Yeah. I use lemons for the acidity.

I don't seem to remember lemons requiring ripening until relatively recently. Maybe it's a new development because of what you said.

But I'm pretty sure they yield more juice when they go yellow and have a little give to the touch.

And when green and hard, the juice is more white, and tastes worse, I think it has more starch or something.

[PaleoPhil]

I'm not sure about the other fruits you named, but the lemons I know absolutely do ripen.

You don't have to take my word for it, if you check sources you'll find that lemons and cherries are listed as nonclimacteric and as not truly ripening after harvest. Here's an example:

"Most nonclimacteric and some climacteric products do not ripen after harvest, such as apples, berries, cherries, grapefruit, grapes, lemons, limes, oranges, strawberries, tangerines, and watermelon In nonclimacteric commodities, quality is optimal at harvest." (Source: Minimally Processed Refrigerated Fruits & Vegetables, edited by Robert C. Wiley, Springer Science & Business Media, Dec 6, 2012)

Lemons and cherries and other nonclimacteric fruits do soften and become less tart after picking, but that's reportedly not necessarily the same as true ripening.

I prefer fresher lemons. The lemons I buy are yellow and tasty at the time of purchase and to me get mushy and bland over time. I like tartness, so that may help explain our different preferences.

It puzzled me that the acidity of lemons never seemed to give me as much problems as orange juice. Perhaps that's because OJ is normally pasteurized and stored, whereas lemons are a raw whole fruit and fresher. I did notice that oranges and fresh-squeezed OJ were not as much of a problem for me either. I'm not a big fan of oranges, though, unfortunately. Maybe I got used to the strong flavor of OJ in my youth so that whole oranges seem bland in comparison.

[dariorpl]

Packaged orange juice, or any other packaged juice is always pasteurized. Stay away from it like the plague!