Round 2: From addiction to recovery

[KD]

yeah for me, I pretty much just used them to test, but generally I think people will supplement with them if they don't burn. I don't know for how long. It seems like you/me etc...would be doing many of the the things needed to jump start more acid production, like 'fasting' from problematic or difficult to digest foods, irritable fibers/carbs etc...So I'm more concerned as how this situation does not seem to improve, or in my case may be worse eating all raw. This would imply that there is some issue absorbing the necessary nutrition or getting the true rest to heal the gut. My opinion is a healthy raw diet should do both, so either supplemental nutrition is needed, at least on a temporary basis or there is some issue with digestion/assimilation or bacteria that isn't 100% related to HCL production/supplementation. I know low levels make one more prone to bacteria, but not if bacteria can overwhelm the stomach. I've been doing the high meats, and they may have helped me out of my digestive crisis somewhat (appetite is normal) but I'm still getting the minor belching and stuff that I wasn't getting weeks before.

There is very little info on how to increase HCL other than vitamins and such (again the assumption that the HCL-cycle inhibits nutrition)

some simple things to try might be drinking warm water/teas, eating smaller meals, and breathing exercises.

since you don't seem to have super bad reactions to sugar, perhaps unheated honey might work somewhat as an enzyme? grinding your own meat...

don't beat down on yourself, your not alone in your frustrations.

[Paleo Donk]

One thing about HCL that MRBBQ pointed out to me is that, the body could be purposefully downregulating its production because of the inability to get enough bile into the small intestines. I'm just going to copy from the email.

Also, the chyme leaving the stomach and entering the duodenum is a pretty damn acidic cocktail, as you can imagine – this kind of pH ain’t the funk in the small intestine, so what normalises the pH of chyme for that environment(?)...The juices entering the duodenum via the sphincter of oddi – you guessed it, from the liver, gallbladder and pancreas. So, if there’s insufficient alkalising element coming into the duodenum due to occlusions in the biliary tree (sludge, soft stones, hard stones, grit, gravel, allsorts), one may wonder if there’s a corresponding effect to down-regulate HCL production in the stomach. Ultimately, this may impact the effect of the enzymes in the stomach (pepsin etc.), yielding undigested protein.

I'm also going to do my second liver flush, this time with olive oil. I've just taken a bit of epsom salts which was much easier to drink this go around thanks to chilling the water first. I have not eaten all day either except for a few small bits of seaweed. I really am biting hard on these flushes supposed ability to heal my digestion more so than a healthy diet ever can do. It may even be that a cooked high-carb diet can take some of the pressure off the gut and allow it to heal faster, though with other collateral damage elsewhere. Thats just a random haphazard thought, but there might be some truth to it. I will try eating more truly high meats - I seem to have a taste for at least some level of bacteria.

Also KD, unheated honey sounds good, extremely good. There was a week when I had some honey (probably heated, though the source said it was raw). I couldn't eat enough of it and was dipping the raw aged meat after almost every bite. It was absurdly good. I'll probably get some more sooner than later. I still don't think my intake really matters that much right now as long as I keep a decent amount of raw meat in my diet. When I was traveling and binging last summer and feeling sicker as my trip went on, I would make sure and eat some raw meat. Not sure if it worked but I did feel better every time.

I think its a good sign that I added weight with my overconsumption. It would make sense that a healthy animal adds weight with respect to its calorie intake. The 'bear' claimed that you could eat up to 5k calories of meat and fat without gaining weight. I can't see how this is a positive thing. Burning excess calories to maintain some weight would not seem like an optimal way for an organism to evolve. It might even be a sign of ill-health when you overeat and do not gain weight. Maybe there is some mechanism in the body that overrides your own intake and keeps you at a set point, but is this a sign of good health?

To good flushing!

[KD]

I can't quite follow that quote 100% but get the gist. I still don't see why cooked meats or carbs wouldn't be causing the same issue, unless the raw proteins and fats were requiring more acid to break down when they supposedly require minimal digestion. What rings most true about this quote is that I suspect the issue is far beyond just HCL. I mean if people with no gallbladder or that produce no HCL can handle raw meats/fats...

as for the weight gain thing.totally. I was always one of those types that could eat tons of food and never gain weight, which led me to eating more crap in order to try to do so. This summer after 6 mo on raw meats/fats was the first time I've ever gained serious weight (on cooked starches/meats) not to the point of being overweight at all but on the far end of normal for me. (185?)

now on a positive note, my weight seems to be regulated on raw. If I under-eat, I lose. I seem to be able to eat under what one would normally expect and maintain weight. and if I eat 3000 cal or more regularly I can gain some steady healthy weight, but that is hard for me to do for one because my appetite is low/digestive issues..catch 22s!

I heard someone here mention liver flushes and being able to eat raw meats afterwards....

some people really swear by honey/digestion. for me I just get ear itchyness and the flavor combination is a bit disturbing to me. but it sounds worth trying.

[Paleo Donk]

Yes, the issue of digestion does seem to go far beyond HCL production seeing that a number of people are fine without gall bladders or cannot produce HCL(aajonus). It all seems to point to biliary congestion which is the reason for the flushes. I probably should stop all this mess with eating whatever I want since the HCL supplementation has improved digestion. The thing about cooked starches and other easily digestible carbohydrates is that several people have had success adding them back into their diets after having bottomed out with low-carb. So, whatever mechanism is working to produce results for them could produce results for me. Perhaps, they will give me some much needed energy and nutrients while I repair my digestion with these flushes. Once the flushes have been productive I can go back to my low-carb raw paleo approach, which I still think is the answer. Of course, many people here will say to simply wait it out and not think about it too hard. Just eat and supplement with HCL. I still haven't given relatively low-carb raw paleo + HCL a true chance yet since every time I add carbs I binge on everything else.

Also, my liver flush has produced nothing so far. No bowel movements, even after taking a second dose of epsom salts early this morning. It felt like my abdomen needed to empty out something but there was no strong urge to try to expel anything.

[KD]

I heard someone here mention liver flushes and being able to eat raw meats afterwards....

whoops, i meant to say eat more raw meats [significantly], although this seems to be more my problem then yours. What specifically are your symptoms again if you do not supplement? Is it mostly on the elimination end? do you think there is a difference of fats or proteins?

I didn't mean to sound un-supportive about trying cooked starches, I'm just literally ignorant of how the stomach works as to understand how this helps. My only reasoning would be to throw out raw-isms of raw food being easier to digest  (particularly for those that support RAF, on meats being easiest than any fibers) or that cooked foods sometimes stop nastyness from dumping into the blood and stomach. I think the latter is the reasoning behind alot of the Primal type protocols.

[Paleo Donk]

Well, I r idiot too when it comes to understanding of human physiology and anatomy and so I stick with the very basics, those things that a 4 year old would understand. By adding in cooked starches or other carbs, it would make sense that you would be naturally lowering your protein and fat intake and thus lowering the need for HCL and bile. This might be why raw honey, as you say is reported to help those with poor digestion - its almost pure energy with no antinutrients(like almost all other carbs contain) and plenty of enzymes(which I'm not sure what they do, but I suppose this is a positive thing). It is high in fructose though which must be processed in the liver but I think Aajonus had some kind of explanation for it.

I found something  - typical Aajonus exaggeration but as always theres usually some truth to it.
http://drbass.com/aajonus.html

You are a big proponent of unheated honey and unheated bee pollen. Can you tell us how you came to believe so strongly in these two foods?


I first learned about it from a military medical doctor in Central America who observed that wounds healed 3-5 times faster if unheated honey was applied to wounds. I experimented. both topically and internally with human and non-human animals and proved the same results. I noticed that the health of the digestive tract and. generally all tissues improved considerably in most eases when considerable amounts of unheated honey were consumed.

and

"Unheated honey contains and insulin-like substance that is produced by the bees when collecting nectar. That insulin-like substance converts 90% of the carbohydrate in nectar into enzymes that help digest, assimilate and utilize protein......The insulin like substance begins detrimental alteration at 93 degrees F (33 C) and is destroyed at 100 degrees F (37 C). Diabetics, hypoglycemics and some infants cannot utilize honey if the insulin-like substance is destroyed. Honey that is heated above 104 degrees F (39 C) is radical sugar that often causes slow deterioration of membranes in the body. Honey heated above 104 degrees F (39 C) may cause toxicity in some infants."

So, 90% of raw honey carbs are converted to enzymes and not energy? Whatever..still it seems like honey is worth experimenting with regardless. You have any online sources for truly raw honey? Honey pacifica is "cold-pressed" but from what other people have said about it, I'm unsure whether its really raw or not. I actually don't care that much now but it'd still be nice to get ahold of some real honey, with the comb and pollen and grub and what not.

I also just had a bowel movement. Nothing that interesting- It was a little difficult to pass and came out in chunks which almost felt like large stones but where just fecal matter as far as I could tell. About to go the beach.

[KD]

I'm not going to defend honey as healing practice, at the same time, in this case people use it to supplement a large consumption of animal fat and protein, so I don't think its the energy within the carbs of the honey as a replacement of total energy, at least in regards to claimed digestive health.

I thought you meant just adding cooked starch to otherwise RPD. I understand that if one had a complete rest from needing to digest certain types of foods, that the responsible organs might heal themselves, but seeing since alot of the rational behind RPD or other animal based diets are that high cooked starch is detrimental to such organs and even HCL production it becomes confusing. esp. as stomach acids are required for most types of digestion right? and again if no bile is apparently necessary for eating animal foods.

I don't have a honey link I'm sure about, I've actually only heard good things about Honey Pacifica. Theres some dispute about the Really Raw brand, which I've tried in the past and has all sorts of the pollen and junk on top. This is the kind I have bought locally which I believe is legit, although I personally still get symptoms from it so I'm not really consuming it

http://www.honeygardens.com/honey.htm

[djr_81]

Upon testing on myself lately I've changed my mind of the Really Raw brand. It hurts my throat and causes indigestion which I'm comfortable saying must be from heat.
The last honey I tried was the "Wee Bee" brand. It's very similar to the Really Raw brand in that it's thick, opaque, and topped with cappings. I did not experience either of the negative immune responses to the Wee Bee brand though so I'd trust it in the future.

[Paleo Donk]

I forgot to answer your question on symptoms of bad digestion that I think the HCL supplementation has helped with - yes, the physical symptoms are basically very poorly formed stools. Also, from the bit I've read about what fingernails can tell about health, it appears that vertical ridges are a sign of low-stomach acid as well. Also, the chronic fatigue is probably a sign as well.

The reason honey and cooked starches could work well for someone like me is that they are easily digestible and the nutrition passes easily and quickly into the bloodstream. Cooked starches probably don't factor much into harming the digestive systems more. I'm guessing its much lower on the list than gluten, cooked animal fats, etc..

I'm kind of putting all my yolks into this liver flush idea. All the people with long-term success seem to not supplement with anything at all. lex, TD, alphagrius, delfuego, etc.. and all the indigenous cultures that live without disease don't really supplement at all, so why should I. I think that once the body heals itself, it will have access to the bountiful amounts of nutrition provided by a raw paleo diet. This last statement is so stupidly simple. I'm not really that concerned right now about the micronutrients or minerals that I might be missing, though I think they can play a role when you are first starting out on this diet, like I am. But, supplementing usually provides the body with a huge overabundance of minerals not in their natural form so there is danger that you will do some harm. Also, for me, its usually impossible to tell whether or not the addition of a supplement does anything without extremely strong evidence. I see a lot of people here saying that taking x supplement lead to y reaction or whatever and I never really put much faith in that.

All of the other long time paleo eaters do not worry about any of this crap. They just eat. The only things that ever really make sense to me for long term health are heavy-metal detoxing and now possibly liver flushing. Everything else seems like its just practicing perfecting dietary masturbation.

And thanks for the honey info, I'll probably order something soon.

[Paleo Donk]

Just had a thought about something that might be keeping me struggling. When I first went VLC 20 months ago, I felt really good, better than I had ever felt before. My mind was as sharp as its ever been and I had tons of energy. I remember having a hard time going to sleep because of all the energy I had. I didn't think of this then but my energy did dissipate after a couple months. I think I was so sure that VLC was the answer that I didn't step back to notice that I didn't have the same energy or clarity when I first started.

I was expecting this same kind of euphoria and probably still do to some extent. This first experience really skewed my view of VLC in almost the exact same way that my first cocaine/adderall usage influenced my expectations with future use. My first few experiences with adderall were amazing but the more I took it the less amazing it became. Its important for me to accept the fact that I'll probably never reach that first euphoria that I experienced with VLC.

[Paleo Donk]

I've come here once again to elucidate my feelings of malcontent, depression, anxiety and anger that have antagonized me this entire day. I will be going into full detail of this anguish. I feel much better now, but throughout the day my mind was wrapped up in this horrible, very tough to escape pit of depression. I got painfully angry at some points, completely addicted to the focus of the pain and the insecurity.

I am writing the following all for myself to figure out how I can manage my anger better when these situations come up in the future. If you're not depressed or never were you might not understand but this is my story and my feelings and I am owning them.

It all began when Paleo Phil accused me of going to far with a 'diagnosis' on the forum dirty carnivore with the following comment.

Paleodonk, you're getting ahead of yourself again. She hasn't even figured out that she has a liver problem yet. Please try to avoid the appearance of prescribing to people. Suggesting possibilities is OK.

He wrote this in response to a statement I made which was

Curezone is filled with crack-pot theories and the such and its up to you to use your judgment to find out a protocol that can work for you. There is a lot of garbage on there and zapping parasites could be one of them, but you can cleanse your liver/gall bladder without any of that mess. Read telman's liver file for a very good break down on how to safely execute multiple liver flushes.

My first reaction was to laugh it off as PP's usual and unfortunate 'follow the leader' type personality that I've seen him turn to when posting. I have a few examples in mind but I won't get to them here as its not that important. Well, I was sure, at first anyways that I wasn't dispensing medical advice and merely giving a polite suggestion of a possibility to look into for further research. I've gotten much better at brushing off criticism, especially from people like TD, since most of his posts to me seem are so far off based and entirely emotionally driven that they cannot make me mad because they do not challenge my own personal beliefs. They aren't even worth responding to as even my anxious mind cannot even bother to smell the whiff of truth they possess. Same for the obvious trolls that I'm surprised that so many others respond to and give legitimate answers to.

But then as usual, my mind wonders and starts to create grand disillusionment that hints at the truth but in reality is quite far from it. Maybe, he is right? Maybe I was going way too far? PP doesn't usually make these types of comments so he could be on to something. There was another poster who commented just before this who thought I was making a mistake with my apparent 'diagnosis' on another post. Is my logic forever doomed because I have these two people attack me? Will everyone else think I'm an idiot? Is it worth even trying to get a job? Am I just always wrong? I made a couple bad posts both today and yesterday that were flat out wrong - this really added to my perception that I was an idiot now and forever and lots of other bad memories popped up too. It all kept on cascading downward leaving me feeling pretty fucking worthless.


Once I settled down, which took most of the day, I decided to break down the comment to see what amount of truth there was to his statement.  My first sentence tells my opinion on curezone that many crack-pot theories (i.e. possibly dangerous, possibly a positive black swan) and to use your best judgment on what kind of advice to take from that site. This is a clear warning that there is potential danger to following advice from that site, though I would say this about any site really or even any medical advice. My next sentence deals with one of the crack-pot pieces of advice, which is parasite cleansing which again in my opinion could be one of the more dangerous (though possibly extremely productive) avenues to health to follow. I then say its possible to cleanse the liver without the parasite removal - obviously not from experience but from reading the now dozens of threads on curezone about people with first-hand experience. Again, no professional sounding advice is given (not that this ultimately matters anyways). My last word is just some information about where someone who has vast experience with liver flushing, who kept detailed records and who has come a long way in regards to his health has kept his log. I did state it as a command, but it was a command to read and thus research more on the subject.

And to another issue - Is it really that big of a deal to suggest to someone a possible path for them to research? Does it really matter at all if I tell someone exactly what I think their problem is? My journal has plenty of suggestions in it and I don't see how what I was doing was any different than any of them. What is wrong with prescribing something to someone (outside the possibilty that there is legal rammification, though this would be outrageously rare and hard to pinpoint from one post)? Its still up to the individual what to do with the advice. If they take offense to it and don't look into it further thats both party's fault.

One of the most important things about healing is the simple fact that you must know of a way to heal before you put it into practice. I'm sure all of you wished someone would have just told you about raw paleo before you started down your path to health.

The only thing that has ever made sense to me to as a human is to spread the word of healing methods to those around me. I don't give a fuck about anything else really.  I am not saying push anything on someone, just let them be aware of the methods to heal if they are sick. Be as honest and forthcoming as you can revealing all information as if you had no attachment to either side and let that person choose to do the research and decide for himself.

There was no compassion with his confrontation.

And to comment on PP's comment. Did he really think I was actively trying to prescribe something to this person? Hes seen me post so many times and I would guess he knows my intentions behind my post as simply to make aware to someone a possible method of healing - remembering this is rule number one to good health, especially to this person in particular who is 200+ pounds overweight and stalled for 4 years. What do I gain from prescribing anything even if I did?

In my opinion, liver flushing has minimal downsides(only 5% of the people in the survey on curezone reported a negative reaction) and a possibility for an enormous upside.

\elucidation

[Paleo Donk]

I wanted to comment further on advice giving, prescribing, diagnosing or other medicalish advice that can be given on the internet. It's always up to the individual receiving and reading the advice to vigorously question and research it so that the decision is entirely up to them as to whether to accept it and experiment with a new method of healing or not. Now, I think the major problem comes in when posters continually try and push healing methods with strong wording that suggest extraordinary results. Again, I don't think there is anything really wrong with having very strong statements about certain methods of healing such as the one I posted in the quote above since its up to the individual but there is a point where it gets too much.

I was guilty with pushing liver flushing too far with the above quote, though my sole intent was to inform the overweight individual about another method of healing - because without knowledge of this method then its impossible to find out more about it. I think I was getting too emotionally connected to wanting to express myself that my wording eventually reached a point that I wasn't being careful and it showed. I just wanted someone to acknowledge that yes, liver flushing is a viable option. Then I could peacefully shut up.

There was a poster who got banned by the name of Roony who had some very intriguing posts with very radical methods of healing. The major problem he faced was communicating these healing methods to the community. He would rarely, if ever post sources and made it seem like his healing methods were sure things. This actually shouldn't really upset anyone as he's entitled to his own opinion and even if hes dead wrong about some of his healing methods its interesting to have someone like him thats willing to post some stuff on the fringe. It was his continuous refusal to acknowledge that he was wrong about certain things and inability to provide sources that really got to me and to the rest of the board and so he was banned. Its kind of unfortunate he wasn't able to tone down his posts, because I think he had some very good insight even though it was shrouded in poor wording.

I think one reason Aajonus is so successful is that even though he seems to clearly exaggerate some of his findings - I've seen some reports here about how nice he is. He might be a master at communicating his ideas, no matter how bizarre or unrealistic they might be, people will listen to him and not people like Roony who was just way over the top.

[carnivorous]

Just had a thought about something that might be keeping me struggling. When I first went VLC 20 months ago, I felt really good, better than I had ever felt before. My mind was as sharp as its ever been and I had tons of energy. I remember having a hard time going to sleep because of all the energy I had. I didn't think of this then but my energy did dissipate after a couple months. I think I was so sure that VLC was the answer that I didn't step back to notice that I didn't have the same energy or clarity when I first started.

I was expecting this same kind of euphoria and probably still do to some extent. This first experience really skewed my view of VLC in almost the exact same way that my first cocaine/adderall usage influenced my expectations with future use. My first few experiences with adderall were amazing but the more I took it the less amazing it became. Its important for me to accept the fact that I'll probably never reach that first euphoria that I experienced with VLC.

I've been chasing that same 'high', and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.  While your energy dissipated after a few months, mine went after only a few days; however, I've since had maybe ~15 days where I felt the energy and satisfaction with life again.  Being that I've only been eating animal foods and taking little to no supplementation, it is hard to simply dismiss this feeling.  There are plenty of ZC'ers that report feeling amazing, but there are also many who seem to agree they feel "great" as if only to fit in.  There seems to be some critical nutrient imbalance or deficiency that is causing this, probably one that some are more sensitive/predisposed to than others.

[klowcarb]

I thought what you said to the poster at DCF was fine. I have been known over there to walk the line myself, as you surely know. I give my opinion frankly, ie. "There is no eating off plan;" "Peer pressure doesn't exist," "Who cares what your 100 grandmother thinks that you don't eat any plant food?"

That said, and while I enjoy reading your writings a lot, I think you went off the rails with eating the neolithic foods instead of sticking out raw ZC/VLC. Cooked starches have "nutrition?" Honey? You really think adding high glycemic sugars are going to make you feel better?

Don't be offended; I am just blunt.

[Paleo Donk]

carnivorous, I'm still keeping an open mind about reaching that euphoria I had the first couple months and your statements help me keep this dream alive, its just that I think its probably better that I should not see that as my only goal. I shouldn't be disappointed by feeling normal. It would be pretty strange that I now have a nutrient deficiency since my diet is a magnitude better than it was when I went VLC the first time. Several people have noted a VLC 'honeymoon' effect similar to what happened to me, so this suggests we are suffering from similar issues. I'm still leaning towards the fact that a healthy person can survive well on a variety of natural, whole food diets.

If you looked at the nutrient profile of an inuit, a hadza and a kitavan you'd see they all are probably very different and yet they are all in seemingly great health. I would guess that if a traditional inuit where somehow transported directly to kitava and forced to eat their diet that they would do very well with little symptoms of ill-health and vice versa.

Kate,

Yea, the neolithic experiment was definitely not healthy, though I felt pretty decent throughout. In the short run, it could be just as healthy or healthier than eating my raw paleo diet if for whatever reason I cannot uptake the nutrition properly from the latter. One argument for why honey would be the best carb source for me would be that it is pure nutrition with no anti-nutrients or indigestible fiber and would be pretty easily digestible.


I also went to the local natural foods store, Native Sun, which is a step-up from whole foods and picked up some goodies

Bragg's raw unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar with the mother, Wee Bee honey and some Greek yogurt by Fage

For lunch I had some raw goats heart from Green Zahbia, supposedly grass-fed, with the honey and the yogurt. The heart tasted great and had plenty of suet covering it which really added to the experience. The honey tastes extremely good, is solid and gritty and is similarly textured to wet sand.  I covered a piece of heart with yogurt and then put a touch of honey on top and devoured it all very quickly. I had difficulty with putting the honey away and had about 100g (75g carbs) worth (5 tablespoons). I actually bought another random liquid "raw" honey as well, which might be a mistake because it looks like I am addicted and may need to hide it. We shall see.

Also, I took 7 HCL pills and felt nothing. I really don't want my system to back up again so I will keep taking them for now.

[djr_81]

I had difficulty with putting the honey away and had about 100g (75g carbs) worth (5 tablespoons). I actually bought another random liquid "raw" honey as well, which might be a mistake because it looks like I am addicted and may need to hide it. We shall see.

I feel your pain.
I bought the medium sized jar and ate 2/3 of it over the span of a weekend. It's good honey and feels full of vitality. It messed me up good in hindsight but I enjoyed it at the time.

[Paleo Donk]

Ha, cool. Yea, I meant to say thanks for the tip, I think. Also, thanks for the tip on the Twin Labs Betaine HCL, it seems to be working much better than the country life version that seemed to give me this funky aftertaste as well as weird smelling breath.

Another note - I had a huge pounding headache right at the lower right base of my skull that lasted for several hours late at night. I also was congested, and still am, far more than I have been these past 4 months and my voice was a bit hoarse. All the extra cooked carbs this past week probably hasn't helped. I don't think I've ever been as sick as long as I've stayed off of heavy carb intake. And I think I felt a very dulll something around my upper right abdomen, but I have no idea as to whether this is random noise or if my gall bladder/liver is awakening because of these flushes.

[djr_81]

Ha, cool. Yea, I meant to say thanks for the tip, I think. Also, thanks for the tip on the Twin Labs Betaine HCL, it seems to be working much better than the country life version that seemed to give me this funky aftertaste as well as weird smelling breath.

Yup, both were me. I'm glad they were both useful leads for you.

[PaleoPhil]

...I've gotten much better at brushing off criticism....

Gosh, Paleo Donk, I didn't mean for my suggestion to you to be seen as criticism. I was trying to help you avoid getting into trouble, as you had just gotten into in your last post before that one. Your remark about my "personality" sure seems critical, but I'll just let it wash over me, rather than affect me, because I think you've said before that you don't really mean anything by some of the anger that comes out.

If you disagree with that forum's rules then a constructive tack might be to express your feelings regarding them with the owner of that forum who sets the tone. However, avoiding even the vaguest impression of prescribing and diagnosing seems very important to her, so I don't think you'll change her mind. I don't see her requests as being particularly burdensome myself, but then I'm pretty easy going. My approach is "live and let live" and "easy rockin--cool vibes." My office mate even called me a "hippie" a couple times because of it (though I don't have the hair for it ). People are free to run their own forums however they wish and if I don't like it I can either ask for a change or go find another forum, which I have done in the past, and I could even start my own forum if I felt strongly enough about it and wanted to do it.


Thanks for the tip re: Twin Labs Betaine HCL, paleo donk and djr. I don't remember the brand I took before. Maybe it was the brand that was the problem--like it seems it was with K2 (I'm getting better and better dental results from the K2 brand I'm taking now). I'm doing pretty well right now, so I won't bother taking that supplement at this time, but I'll keep it in mind if I hit another stall in my ongoing health improvements.

One love,
PP

[William]

I had a huge pounding headache right at the lower right base of my skull that lasted for several hours late at night. I also was congested, and still am, far more than I have been these past 4 months and my voice was a bit hoarse.

I used to get that exact same headache until I went rzc, then it moved to just above starboard ear (the one that's supposed to turn green from eating pemmican).

[Paleo Donk]

Yup, both were me. I'm glad they were both useful leads for you.

Ha, I used "I think" in my last response because now I have an excuse to buy actual raw honey, where as before I wasn't so sure that I could find truly raw honey. On that note, I finished all the wee bee and almost all of the other "raw" brand, about 800 grams worth in 2 days, so honey is probably way too addictive for me. I also noticed that my throat got the slightest bit soar when swallowing the 4th or 5th spoonful worth of the liquid honey. It felt like I got congested too, but I had significant mucous the whole last couple days as well, but the soreness in the throat was real. It didn't stop me from eating more obviously.

PP, Thanks, I did not understand that those forum rules were in place, and was upset because I thought someone was attacking my logic. And when someone attacks my logic, I get furious because obviously I am the chosen one of this universe and unquestionably correct. I would have preferred if someone had flat out said this is against forum rules.

With that said, some of the best advice I have ever received came from people who criticized me in ways that completely lacked compassion. Just because someone gets their point across in a sub-optimal way, does not make their underlying argument any less valid. Even bad advice usually hints at the truth.

I used to get that exact same headache until I went rzc, then it moved to just above starboard ear (the one that's supposed to turn green from eating pemmican).

The headache I got was much worse than any head pain I've had these last few months, though I have had several more minor headaches every week now. I can't handle rzc for now, but will try it again if I see my digestion improve.

quick notes

- I've had some relatively good bowel movements, that are now sinking as opposed to floating
- going to be taking apple cider vinegar with a cup of water at least once a day
- still occasionally taking some french green clay in water in the mornings
- have been eating more salt lately, though not with every meal
- took 8 HCL pills with no burn after a pretty large goat heart meal
- had one of my better days at school yesterday, though still had a few moments where energy was depleted
- I've slept on the floor the last couple nights - I've seen evidence that mattresses provide instant comfort but not necessarily long term relief (i.e. another drug)
- I showed the girl I'm seeing a hunk of drying meat in my fridge, took a bite, and she responded with "wow, thats hot"
- I have not shampooed in 5 months, but will make some out of ACV
- been walking around almost entirely barefoot, even at school, the kids think I'm weird
- I ate a rotting goats heart at school by gripping it like I had just ripped it out of the goat's chest mortal kombat style
- eating at least 4 yolks plus citrus (mainly for taste) most nights
- pressing strength went up a bit with 150x3. I feel stronger too.
- weight was 195 so I didn't reach my goal of 200

[KD]

- I showed the girl I'm seeing a hunk of drying meat in my fridge, took a bite, and she responded with "wow, thats hot"

wow, nice find Goro

-

when you shower do you rinse your hair? I usually only wet my hair once a week and use a tea tree oil shampoo (has some other additives). I notice if I don't it stinks (its long enough now to smell) and has a flat unhealthy texture, but I could also try rinsing more often.

[Paleo Donk]

wow, nice find Goro

Yea, definitely lucky. Though, I've had a few other girls show interest when I told them how much steak I eat. I've even gotten another girl to try raw meat and even crave it on several occasions when she would come over to my place before we'd go out and get drunk. I have a plenty of fish account, an online dating site, where my title is "looking for fellow steak lover" and I've gotten a good number of responses from just that. So, for whatever its worth, its seems there is some population of girls that are into raw meat eating men.

when you shower do you rinse your hair? I usually only wet my hair once a week and use a tea tree oil shampoo (has some other additives). I notice if I don't it stinks (its long enough now to smell) and has a flat unhealthy texture, but I could also try rinsing more often.

I do rinse my hair, but not for any particular reason, just feels natural. I don't know anything about shampoos but thought it couldn't hurt to not shampoo so I experimented and my hair feels the same and doesn't smell (the students would tell me if it did). I was putting coconut oil in to style it which did work well, but I was afraid I was going to do long-term damage so I stopped that as well. I'll try the ACV plus baking soda (I think) concoction some time in the near future.

Notes
- The heaviness in my body is pretty much gone - which is great, I can actually move around without pain.
- I still have a bunch of brain fog, its almost like a small constant headache and annoying but overall feel much better than a few months ago
- thigh feels much better, the purple spot has faded considerably but still there
- little endurance for surfing which wore me out really fast today.
- Maximum strength efforts are good as usual and I feel pretty strong. I set a new record hang power cleaning and then jerking 225. I was really proud of the effort, especially since I haven't power cleaned in at least a month
- the warmer the egg yolk the better tasting so far. I've let them sit out for weeks now
- the ACV experiment is going fine. It tastes fine with the water and taking it at least twice a day. I read that rinsing with baking soda neutralizes the acid, which is potentially dangerous to the teeth, so I've been doing so
- aged meat is so good
- ordered some lugol's iodine and will experiment taking very small amounts in water soon
- curezone is an incredible site with endless personal accounts of experimentation
- I like the hard waxy marrow that doesn't have much taste, its easy to eat. The liquidy stuff almost makes me gag
- I'm thinking of doing some experimental fasting, just for a few days or until I feel I need to quit. Maybe even a type of master cleanse. I felt great after 40 hours of fasting a couple months ago, so I think it'd be good to try again.

[Paleo Donk]

I can't tell if I would prefer an afterlife consisting of a series of perfectly executed bowel movements or continuous sex with women of my choice.

As long as I'm having decent bowel movements, which is the key to life, and going to bed on time I'm feeling pretty good.

[Paleo Donk]

Got some more goodies to experiment with - Some expensive(not a thinly veiled brag) unrefined sea salt, coffee and an enema bag. I will be giving myself a coffee enema in the near future. I've read mainly very positive reviews and figure it to be safe. We shall see.

I took my first dose of iodine today with two drops of lugols 2% solution in the morning in some water on an empty stomach. I then took two more drops with some ACV and water this afternoon after consuming about 200g of honey and a liter of pasteurized milk (I couldn't stop myself from eating the wee bee honey and gorged till I felt a little sick).  Each drop is 2.6mg so I had about 10mg total, which is a pretty low dosage. Many people take a dosage in the 50-100mg range, though I don't plan on getting up there anytime soon. Some claim that iodine can wipe out good bacteria and a few have reported some detox issues, so I'll be taking it easy for now, there is no rush. I couldn't feel anything from it for now.

Also, I lifted and had a good little workout getting 95x5 twice with dbs on the incline which ties for the most I've ever done. I feel strong and would like to make my easily bullshittable reasons for why I think this is so. I think my body is responding to better absorption of nutrition, whether that be protein due to HCL supplementation or just extra calories from easily digestible carbs, it seems to be translating to more energy and more strength and of course, the key to life, better bowel movements. My endurance is still pretty marginal but its been that way for almost a decade now.

I say easily bullshittable above because everything I feel and subsequently write is just haphazard conclusions based on very wild variations of inputs from everyday life and is virtually meaningless but I suppose fun to try and guess what is happening.

I wonder if its possible to have perfectly formed bowel movements(whatever that is) and be in anything other than excellent health.