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Offline goodsamaritan

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Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« on: December 23, 2009, 08:29:44 am »
I'll go first with my 2 cents:

Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle is about curing all diseases and achieving the best health possible

The theory behind Raw Paleolithic Diet is that the optimum human diet is that which humans evolved in, which is a vast amount of time prior to agriculture, prior to commercially processed food... the human diet in paleolithic times which is mostly meat / animal food, fruit and vegetables.  Pre-pending with the word RAW means going even further back to paleolithic times BEFORE cooking.

We are not trying to imitate the lives of cavemen, we are cherry picking what evolutionarily makes sense and optimally applicable that will bring about the best health possible.  We are health nuts to the max.  I think of raw paleo diet as raw paleo curative diet.  Raw paleo lifestyle is the cleanest possible lifestyle devoid of chemicals with an environment that his health giving... fresh clean air, pure clean water, stress free living.

Raw is what separates us in the raw paleo diet camp from most of the (cooked) paleo diet camp.  While the (cooked) paleo diet camp claims that all meat should be fully cooked for sanitation and against parasites, we in the raw paleo diet believe that herbivorous meat like grass fed beef, lamb and goat -- are optimally eaten raw.  That sea food is optimally eaten raw. We are looking for nutrition to the maximum from sources such as raw blood, raw oysters, raw liver, raw bone marrow, raw muscle and raw fat, etc.

Raw paleo diet is not backed up by any well funded studies.  Raw paleo diet and its variants is backed up by testimonials of healers and cured people.  I view raw paleo diet as representing the broadest and the best of the raw food movement.

Raw paleo diet is curative.  I would not be practicing raw paleo diet if it were any less.  As the family healer, raw paleo diet and lifestyle forms the foundation of curing all diseases.  Raw animal meat and raw animal fat are a different class of food from its cooked cousins.  Raw fat with raw protein has "magical" properties where it is easily digestible, alkalizing, lubricating and hydrating... everything good and nothing bad.

Raw paleo diet and lifestyle can lay claim as the foundation for curing the incurable diseases such as all diseases of toxemia and tooth decay where a cooked meat paleo diet is simply ineffective.

--------------
I will ask the raw paleo forum community to chime in on this.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 08:36:43 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 09:17:56 am »
    I was raised basically on a cooked paleo diet.  We had lamb chops, steak, broiled chicken, green salads, celery sticks, fresh fruit mostly all rinsed, cut and cooked at home.  I got sick.  I was also in great pain much of the time.  For me, raw and cooked don't compare.  Raw is absolutely healing, and cooked is not for everyone.  

    Just being raw isn't enough either.  I've been raw vegan and raw vegetarian.  It is no where nearly as good for a person's health.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 11:14:31 am »
With raw paleo diet and lifestyle we are above the fray of medicinal concoctions.
Seems herbals, supplements, drugs, are far off exotic things that aren't needed much.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 11:35:48 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 12:40:45 pm »
from http://www.newtreatments.org/doc/WisdomExperience/188

Raw versus cooked meat
Monday, May 31 2004 - Dossier: General

The choice of eating cooked or raw meats is a quite difficult one. Here are some factors to consider:

- Increases strain on the liver
From: www.ahoa.org.au/cgi-bin/cgiforum.pl?action=showentry&thesection=default&entry=1490&start=15&end=0
Our digestive effort must be greater with raw meat. Also, the fact that no heat denaturation has taken place probably means that more polypeptides, rather then simple amino acids, will be transported to the liver, which then must further digest them, because certain polypeptides are not welcomed in the blood. Both liver and blood contain many enzymes which remove polypeptides rather fast, but that means that when we eat raw meat the liver must work harder.

+ Uncooked foods contain more solar magnetism than cooked foods
From: www.rosicrucian.com/2qa/2qaeng03.htm#question52
The more directly food comes to us from the soil, the more solar magnetism it contains. Consequently, it ''stays with us'' the longest when eaten uncooked. When food has gone through the process of cooking, a part of the ether it contained is lost, as a number of the finer particles are dissolved by heat and ascend in the kitchen as odor from whatever food it comes. Consequently the cells of cooked food remain a shorter time as a pert of our body than in the case of an uncooked food, and food which has already been assimilated by the animal has very little chemical ether of its own (except milk which is obtained by a vital process and has a greater quantity of ether than any other food).

- On the other hand, in the dead flesh of animals this solar magnetism is gone
From: www.rosicrucian.com/2qa/2qaeng03.htm#question52
Hence with regard to the flesh of animals it may be said that most of the chemical ether in the fodder has gone into the vital body of the animal before it was killed, and at its death the vital body leaves the carcass. Therefore flesh putrefies very much quicker than vegetables and ''stays with us'' only a short time after we eat it.

+ Heating proteins cause them to cross-link and form mutated proteins
From: www.13.waisays.com/cooking
Due to heat, preparing food originates new substances. Most of these new substances originate from proteins reacting upon carbohydrates. Some of these substances cause cancer, or brain diseases, and impair neurotransmitter function and metabolism.
To be able to grow old and healthy, you need to consume as little prepared food. (prepared proteinacous food in particular).

+ Raw foods contain the naturally available enzymes
Raw foods are on the other hand easier to digest because they contain the natural enzymes. Heating destroys these enzymes. However, it's uncertain if these enzymes survive the stomach acid.

+ Raw fats have better properties than heated fats
Raw fats have much better cleansing / detoxification properties than heated fats. Also all poly-unsaturated fats (and also mono-unsaturated) fats are damaged by heating and cause massive amounts of free radicals.

+ Raw foods contain less free radicals
Heating increases chemical reaction speed and significantly increases the forming of free radicals.

+ Raw foods contain more vitamins
Heating destroys specific vitamins, so raw foods contain more vitamins

- Heating de-activates certain anti-nutrients
For example, raw egg-whites contain anti-nutrients (avidin www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/eggwhite.htm ) which hinder the absorption of B-vitamins. When cooked this anti-nutrient is deactivated.

+ Eating raw means no risk of nickel/aluminium or Teflon poisoning
There seems to be no safe metal/material to cook in without risking poisoning

-----

I received the following notes from a Live-Food subscriber:

1. ''Increases strain on the liver.'' Can't agree with the idea that the
overall digestive effort is greater for raw meat - it's actually much
less effort / easier. Most people who switch to raw meat lose their
indigestion quickly. By the way, it is, perhaps, an oversight to
isolate one food (raw meat in this case) from others in a diet in an
effort to quantify and qualify the effects and properties. Most of us
do not eat raw meat alone - but also other foods and many drink green
juices or eat many dark greens to heal and nourish the liver and balance
the diet. Ref: Food is Your Best Medicine - Beiler. So perhaps your
list should include the necessary other changes in the diet. Example:
when I was eating cooked meats I had to use herbs and spices to aid in
my digestion and nutrition balance. On raw meats I need none of those.

2. ''uncooked foods contains more solar magnetism...'' Well, I would also
mention that the flesh of ruminants, for example, contains chemical
ether (as you call it) and is created by the same process as the milk
(eating grass and digesting it, etc.)

3. re: ''..in the dead flesh of animals this solar magnetism is gone'' My
observation is that vegetables rot more quickly than meat. Also,
uncooked meat does not putrefy in the sense that the bacteria that comes
in the uncooked meat is beneficial and desirable. When cooked foods are
attacked by bacteria those bacteria are potentially non-beneficial or
dangerous. I think of these dangerous bacteria when I think
''putrefaction.'' Example: Pasteurized milk can putrefy and become
dangerous sometimes (it can kill), raw milk does not putrefy - it sours
- and has never been shown to be dangerous. It is the same with raw
meat that has been raised in a healthy environment - it ''sours'' but does
not putrefy (in the sense I use). Additionally, my experience has been
that the beneficial effects (the ''staying with us longer'' effect) of raw
meats seem to be as long-lasting to me as fresh vegetables. I'm not
sure that there is any real difference between meat and veggies in that
regard. As far as the concept of ''vital body'' or essence, I think we
agree that the fresher the food, the more vital it is when eaten. For
example, no tomato sitting on a shelf in a store can compare to one just
pulled ripe off the vine.

4. The one about ''heating proteins... mutated proteins'' should not have
a plus sign - needs a minus I believe. Cause cancer - not good, right?

5. Raw fats have other than cleansing and detoxification properties.
They are also an important energy source and thus support a balanced
metabolism.

6. Regarding the example of anti-nutrients (as in eggs). Check me on
this but I believe that *fertile* eggs contain an ingredient(s) that
nullifies the anti-nutrient. What you say is correct about non-fertile
eggs.

7. I'm not certain about this but I always believed that copper and
iron and stainless steel cooking pans were not toxic to us when used to
cook foods. Certainly copper kills bacteria (not necessarily a good
thing on a raw diet) but I don't think it becomes toxic to us when
ingested in the amounts we would get from cooking foods in it. Copper
and acidic foods (citrus, vinegar, etc.) might increase the amount
ingested to higher levels. Certainly the things you mentioned (nickel,
aluminium) are known to be poisonous in certain forms and, well, Teflon
is just plain ugly.

8. You might bring up the subject of cooking oils, etc. Many people
cook meat in butter or oil if pan fried or sauteed. Or the meat cooks in
it's own fats. As you probably know ingesting cooked oils/fats can be a
big problem in the grand scheme of things.

9. You might mention somewhere in your list that it is important to
obtain healthy raw meat - not just any raw meat will do (it may not be
safe). Naturally ''organic'' is the ideal (no antibiotics, growth
hormones, pesticides, etc.) We tend to use the standard of: range free,
grass fed bison and cow (and any food animal must be fed its natural
foods); range free, omnivorously fed chicken and eggs; non-farmed, deep
sea fish. Wild meat must come from places where the available food and
water for the animal is known to be untainted by toxins, pollution, etc.

Also, fresh raw meat (as I described above) poses no problems for most
people. However, when that same meat is older (or aged), beneficial
bacteria (which comes with the meat from the host animal) blooms on the
meat. It is important, I feel, to ease into eating aged meat. After
the body becomes accustomed to the new strains of bacteria they are less
likely to cause imbalances. This is much the same as with drinking raw
milk (full of excellent, live bacteria) after having drunk pasteurized
milk (dead) for a long time. The whole topic of beneficial bacteria
should be revealed to the reader - for all fresh foods contain
beneficial bacteria that are (in my humble opinion) symbiotic with
humans (and as important or more so as the solar magnetism you cite as
being desirable).
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 01:08:26 pm »
With raw paleo diet and lifestyle we are above the fray of medicinal concoctions.
Seems herbals, supplements, drugs, are far off exotic things that aren't needed much.

    Exactly!  When I was vegan, I had to carefully grow herbs or spend hundreds of dollars on the highest quality herbals and search for them etc.  They did help, but eating RAF now I am at a new level.  I am stronger and healthier than ever, and not just IMO.  People tell me I look the best ever. 

    When I ate the cooked paleo, forget it.  I looked so undernourished.  My body cannot find anything good to do with grilled meat etc.  I had to take antibiotics and other medications and my health only declined. 

    I did take good quality vitamins etc, but that helped very little.
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Offline majormark

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 05:13:30 pm »

Here is another good reason to eat raw paleo: You get more MSM.

"MSM is most abundant in raw, unpasturized milk and can be found in lesser amounts in garlic, grains, raw meat, eggs & fish. It is also available in fresh, raw vegetables including broccoli, peppers, Brussels sprouts, onions, asparagus and cabbage.

However, it’s hard to get enough MSM from dietary sources alone. The above paragraph does not describe the average American diet, and because MSM is highly water soluble and evaporates, the nutrient is lost once food is cooked, steamed, smoked, or processed (the latter a better reflection of how most people eat).

Age is another factor in MSM deficiencies. MSM diminishes in our bodies with age. We can find MSM in all of us using either a blood sample or urine sample. But the MSM is lowered by eating too much processed food and growing older. We can change our eating habits, but tough to stop the aging process.

Almost everyone is deficient in the mineral sulfur, but with age the deficiency grows ever more pronounced."

From here: http://www.bulkmsm.com/competition/competition2/sys-tmpl/faqaboutus/index.htm

I want to also find out the quantity of MSM in each raw food. If anyone knows, drop a link here.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 06:23:52 pm »
I tried cooked palaeo well before my rawpalaeo experiment and it was an utter disaster as I'd developed serious food-intolerances towards any cooked animal food whatsoever(digestive problems, very painful constipation etc. etc.)  I've come across people who've had benefits from going cooked-palaeo - but , in most cases, they only experienced minor health-benefits, such as slight improvements in auto-immune diseases and the like.

Who is this live-food subscriber, by the way?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 06:51:07 pm by TylerDurden »
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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2010, 05:26:27 am »
I find it raw is better for health, but cooked can be really delicious.  Foods are drugs, sometimes you just have to give into it.  That's life.  It's like that hooker back in Tijuana. You have to enjoy it, but don't enjoy it too much.  That's when problems come up.  I jump from both time to time.  I eventually get back to eating raw if I feel unhealthy.   
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2010, 05:30:10 am »
I find it raw is better for health, but cooked can be really delicious.  Foods are drugs, sometimes you just have to give into it.  That's life.  It's like that hooker back in Tijuana. You have to enjoy it, but don't enjoy it too much.  That's when problems come up.  I jump from both time to time.  I eventually get back to eating raw if I feel unhealthy.   
Many of us don't enjoy it at all and just compromise for social reasons, on occasion. I'd say for most of us, cooked food is more like crack-cocaine than a hooker, with unpleasant detox symptoms, however minor or major, typically appearing afterwards. I for example get to cough up a disgusting oily mixture after eating any heavily cooked animal foods.
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Offline klowcarb

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2010, 05:31:35 am »
I think raw ZC and even raw paleo with lots of meat would be healthy, but raw vegan or raw vegetarianism is a disaster.

Offline redfulcrum

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2010, 07:06:56 am »
I don't know man, I still enjoy cooked foods.  I love eating a tongue burrito with avacado.  Delicious.  It's not always social thing for me.  Sometimes, I get cravings.  I do pay for it also with my health later.  My only social problem is drinking.  I love alcohol.  I don't drink just any beer either, I like the good stuff from micro brews.  It's addictive and bars are just plain fun.  Where else are you gonna socialize with beautiful women looking their best?  To be honest, I'm 28 and I have no idea how to meet women any other way.  Hey, my pic is at a bar... see.  I do know not to overdo it.  I can't stand how it makes me look afterwards, all puffy and orange.  Then I have to overeat to soak up the toxins.  There's always pros and cons to every decision in life, including diet.  Sometimes, you choose what's more important for you at that very moment.  Fun or health?  I would go with health 90% of the time.  That 10% comes out and play when it's needed. 
Opening Pandora's boxes, one box at a time.

Offline Ioanna

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2010, 07:34:58 am »
Fun or health?   

maybe one day they will be one in the same for you, that you will not sacrifice one for the other

Offline redfulcrum

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2010, 08:54:15 am »
Oh come on.  You act like we live in this perfect world.  You walk down the street and god knows what the heck you're absorbing when you're breathing in that diesel exhaust from that 18 wheeler that drove by.  You can aim to reach perfection, but it will never happen.  If I want to let loose and have a little fun, I will.  It is worth it.  You can always return to your spartan diet after the fact.  You can't keep alienating yourself from society because of a diet.  I'm not gonna go crazy and becoming a meth addict or something.  When you live on your own little island somewhere in the pacific, then you can preach about living perfectly. 
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2010, 09:16:17 am »
Well, I used to be deathly sick I could not socialize, have fun, nor operate in the "normal" world.  So from my perspective I just have to choose health so I can have fun. 
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Offline Ioanna

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2010, 09:57:53 am »
i've never intended to suggest that I am perfect or seeking a 'perfect' world,  nor am i alienated by any means

In fact, in my last post, I wasn't speaking about me at all.

please watch your tone and assumptions, my statement was meant to be encouraging for a lifestyle I thought you were pursuing and in response to your most previous post.

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2010, 10:32:32 am »
I only eat ZC and never eat off plan. I eat only raw when I eat my one meal at home (which is 99% of the time). For dates or restaurant meals, I get my steak super rare--cooked at the lowest temperature the restaurant allows, and unseasoned. I always get exactly what I want and feel no social pressure.

I find eating ZC to be a draw for men  ;). Especially when they see that I keep very fit this way.

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2010, 10:43:05 am »
... I used to be deathly sick I could not socialize, have fun, nor operate in the "normal" world.  So from my perspective I just have to choose health ...

    I was like that for a year and more of Vegan.  There was no way I could socialize I was so sick.  Cooked paleo was so long ago.  I was way too skinny and pale.  I couldn't digest the food.  Being bone skinny and in pain many parts of the body ain't so great for socializing.  I feel much better in so many ways now.  Feeling well helps your whole perspective.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2010, 02:40:45 pm »
I find eating ZC to be a draw for men  ;). Especially when they see that I keep very fit this way.
Yeah, for me carnivorism of woman would be a big draw  :P
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Chime in: Why RAW Paleo Diet vs Cooked Paleo Diet
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2010, 06:28:08 pm »
Well, I used to be deathly sick I could not socialize, have fun, nor operate in the "normal" world.  So from my perspective I just have to choose health so I can have fun. 
  Exactly. It's perfectly possible to have fun and be healthy at the same time. And one doesn't look very attractive to the opposite sex if one is suffering from multiple health-problems and obesity caused by SAD diets.

That said, I guess people who are already reasonably healthy can cheat in a few ways, for social reasons. I mean, I never drank alcohol at the start of my diet partly because I was in such a bad way after eating cooked diets. Now,many years later,  I have a bit of real ale or clear spirits here and there (the least damaging of alcohol types) and it's not the end of the world. But, certainly, for those relatively new to this diet with multiple issues from past unhealthy cooked diets, it's best to minimise unhealthy food and drink.

As for comments re cooked  carnivorous, I don't think that's necessarily a draw. But , in popular culture, many raw animal foods such as raw oysters, raw fugu, steak tartare etc. are variously seen as aphrodisiacs.
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