Zero carb Euphoria

[Michael]

How long have you been zero carb now Andrew?  What other improvements have you noticed since going zc in addition to curing dandruff & dry/cracked skin?

Like yourself, I've long had problems with candida and am aware of Bee Wilder's yahoo group and website.  Certainly people in her group who follow her advice seem to recover well but I'm not convinced much of it is necessary.  I, too, think zc is the quickest surefire way to beat it.  I'm always very interested to read your own comments and experiences!

I've been cutting down carbs for some time now.  I'm at the point where my diet consists of meat (lamb, mutton, beef, venison), fat (bone marrow & very fatty cuts of meat) and very limited veg accompaniments for flavouring (basically just garlic, parsley & red onion).  From your own experiences, would you suggest that dropping the accompaniments would greatly aid and speed candida recovery?

Satya, have you now advanced towards zc yourself?!  What have been your experiences?

[Raw Kyle]

I would love to understand why it supposedly takes so long to get rid of candida. I understand that spores for all micro organisms are everywhere and you can never get rid of those, so all you can do is limit or remove it's food supply in your body and eventually it will starve all of the living ones and only the spores will pass through you without anything to grow on. But why so long for this process? Is it because even on zero carb you still have some carbs in your system? And if so, wouldn't that support forever a small candida population, rather than eventually wiping them out? And furthermore can candida truly not live on anything but carbs?

I'm open to all of this, but the candida talk sometimes to me sounds like the "detox" that raw vegans talk about; whenever there's a problem they stamp it on there and then say it takes all this time to get rid of. And the other similarity is there is no proposed way of measuring it inside you or measuring the change of population, etc...not something I can really put my entire belief into.

I'm not sure I have the will power at this point to go zero carb for long enough to see these effects, like a year or more.

[Hannibal]

Zero-carb approach could not be enough
the real problem in modern world is dental toxicity - toxic fillings (e.g. amalgams), root canals, cavitations, etc.
read "It's All in Your Head: Link Between Mercury Amalgams and Illness" of Hal Huggins
when you've got mercury in you body (in your teeth) you'll always have overgrowth of Candida albicans, as it is transforming very dangerous form of mercury into some less dangerous, so it plays quite postive role (only in this case, of course)
you should fight the real cause and with zero-carb rawpaleodiet you'll certainly win

[goodsamaritan]

I'm not sure I have the will power at this point to go zero carb for long enough to see these effects, like a year or more.

When I had candida I did a 3 day zero carb + zero protein + 100% fat diet called the virgin coconut oil detox.
It is both zero carb and zero protein.
The problem with candida is it can live on protein so zero carb is not enough.
See http://tinyurl.com/vcodetox
also my experience at http://www.myhealthblog.org/2006/10/21/i-tried-a-3-day-virgin-coconut-oil-detox/

[Raw Kyle]

I don't have dental fillings.

And if candida can live on protein than it will just recolonize when you add that back in.

[letifer]

I'm open to all of this, but the candida talk sometimes to me sounds like the "detox" that raw vegans talk about; whenever there's a problem they stamp it on there and then say it takes all this time to get rid of. And the other similarity is there is no proposed way of measuring it inside you or measuring the change of population, etc...not something I can really put my entire belief into.

The best way I keep track of how bad candida is is from the level of oral thrush (white stuff) on my tongue.

[Guittarman03]

Your body produces carbs out of protein and fat.  Doesn't this mean that it is impossible to rid your body of carbs?  I have also read on the zero carb forums that sugars are the only thing bacteria can feed on to cause cavities; yet I have never had a cavity in my entire life... until I tried zc.  They shrunk and I only have one small dot on my back right molar now... after I added carbs again.

I guess I'm just not sold on the candida issue being inherently related to carbs. 

[wodgina]

Your body produces carbs out of protein and fat.  Doesn't this mean that it is impossible to rid your body of carbs?  I have also read on the zero carb forums that sugars are the only thing bacteria can feed on to cause cavities; yet I have never had a cavity in my entire life... until I tried zc.  They shrunk and I only have one small dot on my back right molar now... after I added carbs again.

I guess I'm just not sold on the candida issue being inherently related to carbs. 

How long was your zero carb experience? didn't you mention you were eating up to 30grams of carbs a day in  your supposedly zero carb trial. Is this a disguised zero carb bashing post?

I'll take a stab

Not very long or never happened (or see next answer)
yes
and yes


Candida problems are caused be poor diet and the physical degradation of the human race. Someone an OK diet with a well developed immune system will not get candida.

[Guittarman03]

1st time, almost a year ago.  For a solid 2 weeks the most carbs I had was maybe a couple strawberries every day.  That's like 4g carbs.  I didn't even know there were zero carbers out there, nor was I aware of the back and forth in the various caveats of RP.  Just tinkering. 

Anyways, my breath started to smell pretty awful.  My digestive system started to back up, but I would have diarhea.  I was losing energy and feeling lousy.  Came home from work one day feeling particularly terrible, and had a craving for berries and honey (I never have had a sweet tooth, and didn't really crave sweets during the zc trial until then), so I decided it was my body talking to me.  I loaded up on some choice berries / honey, and IMMEDIATELY felt satisfied and better.  My digestive tract loosened up, and I started to feel warm (beginnings of fever).  I had a fever that night, and got up about 4 times to take a crap, but each time I woke up I felt better.  By morning both my fever and diahrea had subsided.  I felt better than I had in quite a few days.  I added a few carbs back in for the next few days, but kind of slipped in to VLC soon after (maybe 10-15g carbs every day?) w/o quite realizing it, just kind of habit from the last couple weeks.  I started to get some of the same symptoms again - to a lesser extent - so I added some carbs and problem solved.  I had a dental checkup about 1/2 way through this ordeal (which was about 4-5 weeks all together), and found out that for the FIRST time in my life, I had cavities.  I chose not to get them filled.

Now from about February - April this year, I was doing very low carb, about 30g per day.  Then I decided there wasn't really much difference between 30 and 0, and was considering some of the possibilities of growth hormone response, so I figured I'd try zc again, but after about 5 days, again w/ the bad breath.  I was also starting to feel odd, not bad really, just not right, it's difficult to explain.  So I can go a few days pure meat (I do it fairly often nowadays), but I've gotta get some carbs in or my health declines. 

That's the experience of it for me, w/o any attempt to 'bash' zc.  I'm glad that other zc'ers have found a diet that improves their health, and are experimenting and contributing to the community through the study of a particular caveat of RP.   

---
I will however 'bash' the way you chose to respond:

I was talking about candida and dental health in relation to carbohydrates.  I was talking about gluconeogenesis, sharing my experience with RP re 'mouth health,' and asking some valid questions.  You absolutely failed to respond to me in a way that speaks to the information/questions presented; opting instead to take the easier road of 'bashing,' while simultaneously accusing me of the same. 

Why the tendancy to be so defensive?  To stifle dissent?  Yes I've got some differences of opinion, but discussion/debate is a great way to gain new knowledge and refine those opinions, as long as we stay on topic...       

     

[SkinnyDevil]

I have also read on the zero carb forums that sugars are the only thing bacteria can feed on to cause cavities; yet I have never had a cavity in my entire life... until I tried zc.  They shrunk and I only have one small dot on my back right molar now... after I added carbs again.

Query: How long ago was this, how many cavities did you have?

[William]

Zero-carb approach could not be enough
the real problem in modern world is dental toxicity - toxic fillings (e.g. amalgams), root canals, cavitations, etc.
read "It's All in Your Head: Link Between Mercury Amalgams and Illness" of Hal Huggins
when you've got mercury in you body (in your teeth) you'll always have overgrowth of Candida albicans, as it is transforming very dangerous form of mercury into some less dangerous, so it plays quite postive role (only in this case, of course)
you should fight the real cause and with zero-carb rawpaleodiet you'll certainly win

+1 and more
I think that it's toxicity in general (or in my language, poisons) including most carbohydrates. Consider the 100,000+ man-made chemicals in our environment, in water, air, food, put in teeth, injected into bloodstream etc.
The only thing that seems to work well for me is zc, and it was shortly after I started that that the coating disappeared from by tongue, never to return.

[Guittarman03]

This was Aug-Sep last year.  On the outside of 3 bottom molars, you could see a small black dot (caries), on one of them it was somewhat larger than a dot.  Over the course of a few months two of them shrank and disappeared, the large one still lingers, though it too has shrunk considerably.   

[RawZi]

...  is deep and brief, its amazing! No nightmares no 'bad nights'.


Thanks, Andrew.  ...

My sleep is so sound and solid - much more so than on a raw mixed diet. I think semi raw is important, but I also feel that dropping the non essential carbs is more important to my overall health. Having experimented with both, I can see the difference clearly now.

    I have a friend who would not shy away from raw meat or organic food and has terrible nightmares.  I'd like to know how many of you have support to get rid of dreams by going RZC.

[klowcarb]

I rarely have dreams and never have nightmares.

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, as I have reported in the past, my nightmares went away when I cut down on carbs and when I eat VLC or ZC I have few or no cases where I am conscious of any dreams. If I eat too much of certain carby foods, I start to have more dreams that I am conscious of and my sleep becomes more restless and I can even end up with muscle tension throughout my body, flank and bladder pain and other issues the next morning. Interestingly, I found that most centrifuged and raw honeys can cause the dreams and restlessness and other issues, but apparently not raw fermented honey, though it's early in my experiments with this. Why the difference, I don't know, but apparently there's more to it than just the carbs aspect.

[RawZi]

I rarely have dreams and never have nightmares.

    Was it different before you cut out the carbs?  Did you always eat this way?

apparently there's more to it than just the carbs aspect.

    The person I'm thinking of, of course they're eating a good (fairly large) amount of carbs each day, organic etc but carbs nonetheless.  I know when I get close to or am actually eating zero carb, my sleep is brief, deep, restful, healing and no dreams.  With certain carbs sometimes I get awesome dreams.  I like the dreams.     

[Nurnberg]

I know this thread is rather old, but to the original poster, your euphoria might be because of elevated levels of B-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB) if your in ketosis.

[PaleoPhil]

It looks like you're right:

Low-carb diets, fasting and euphoria: Is there a link between ketosis and c-hydroxybutyrate
(GHB)?
http://www.moodfoods.com/dieting/fasting.pdf
"Anecdotal evidence links the initial phase of fasting or a low-carbohydrate diet with feelings of well-being and mild euphoria. ... Here I hypothesize that, the mild euphoria often noted with fasting or low-carbohydrate diets may be due to shared actions of BHB and GHB on the brain."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-Hydroxybutyric_acid
beta-Hydroxybutyric acid (also known as beta-hydroxybutyrate or 3-hydroxybutyric acid) is a ketone body.

Jari, May 23, 2007 at 11:35 am
"And ketones are THE preferred fuel for the heart, making that organ operate at about 28 percent greater
efficiency." -MRE

Source, please?

Hi Jari,

Here is one source.

Richard Veech, the author, is probably the world’s leading authority on ketone metabolism.
Here is a quote from the article that you won’t find in the abstract. After discussing his experimental results in determining heart efficiency with different fuels and finding that ketones increase efficiency by 28 percent, he writes:

"The fundamental reason why the metabolism of ketone bodies produce an increase of 28% in the hydraulic efficiency of heart compared with a heart metabolizing glucose alone is that there is an inherently higher heat of combustion in -B-hydroxybutyrate [a ketone] than in pyruvate, the mitochondrial substrate which is the end product of glycolysis."

Cheers,

MRE

Metabolism and ketosis
22 May 2007, 23:50 Uhr
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/metabolism-and-ketosis/

> Of course, you can start eating a lot of coconuts like the Tokelauans or Kitavans and you can elevate your
B-hydroxybutyrate even with a normal carb intake. Uh-oh - now our thyroid glands will die!

> VLC eaters can fast with no discomfort whatsoever - serum BG is stable because you are burning fatty acids and B-
Hydroxybutyrate. You have not said what you are eating, but in my experience hypoglycemia and the resultant
adrenaline surge is a response to too much carbohydrate in the diet - it goes away with VLC eating.

180 + 180 = 360
Friday, February 5, 2010 at 1:31PM
http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2010/2/5/180-180-360.html