Author Topic: Why Humans Outlive Apes  (Read 23211 times)

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 07:33:42 am »
I've eaten both ways.
I chew my food as I get to enjoy the flavor of the raw meat more this way, even if it does take a bit longer. :)
I guess you're "finicky" too then, djr. LOL.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline RawZi

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 11:46:00 am »
I've eaten both ways.
I chew my food as I get to enjoy the flavor of the raw meat more this way, even if it does take a bit longer. :)

    I used to chew the (raw) meat, and get the flavor; because I thought it was healthier that way.  I just swallow it now.  I could care less about the flavor, and just feel good eating the raw meat.  If I go too long (several days) without (raw) meat, I feel it.  I feel much better eating it.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2010, 06:47:57 pm »
Do you take a drink with each bite, to help it get down?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2010, 09:22:56 am »
...Omnivores such as bears are also adapted to bolting. It doesn't mean a thing, therefore....
-\ Oh boy, I hestitate to get into this, but maybe I'll learn something. This one is pretty interesting. It turns out that, just like Giant Pandas, despite having an omnivorous diet, all members of the bear (Ursidae) family are physiologically carnivores and are classified as such, as reported here, for example:

"Bears are mammals of the family Ursidae. Bears are classified as caniforms, or doglike carnivorans....

The Ursidae family belongs to the order Carnivora and is one of nine families in the suborder Caniformia, or "doglike" carnivorans." ("Bear," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear)

So while they eat omnivorous foods, their digestive system is apparently carnivorous. So bears do not at all prove that bolting is not a carnivorous eating style. Besides, don't even true omnivores tend to have some carnivorous-type features and habits?

If you're comparing humans to bears, then this would seem to argue that humans are facultative (opportunistic) carnivores/faunivores. The fact that most of us chew our food seems to be one of the best arguments for humans being physiologically omnivores. I feel strange taking the pro-omnivore position with you and seeing you go farther in the carnivorous direction than I'm ready to do. ;D If it turns out that humans digest better by bolting, I may try to adapt to it. I tried it out yesterday and didn't do too well with it.  :'(
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 09:31:27 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline RawZi

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2010, 02:26:03 pm »
Do you take a drink with each bite, to help it get down?

    Never.  I don't eat and drink at the same time.  I wait approx an hour before and after liquids.  I did eat and drink (as much) liquids (as possible) together but with cooked meat instead of raw as a kid, but chewed and chewed and chewed ... it didn't work out well, and I was trying to eat as little as I was permitted.  I hated food most of the time.  This is me though.  Eat how it works out well for you.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2010, 07:59:55 pm »
Bears like humans have teeth designed to eat plants, so have clearly adapted to omnivorous diets:- "The premolars and molars of modern bears are modified to grind vegetable matter. " taken from:-

http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=493.172

As for omnivores, there are plenty of examples of omnivorous species that bolt down food instead of chewing. The most obvious example are omnivorous birds, so it's clear that chewing raw meat is not necessary and that bolting is the more natural method.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2010, 09:09:43 am »
Bears are nonetheless still regarded as carnivores overall physiologically. Do you deny that? Remember, species classification is based mostly on physiology--not what they eat (remember the giant panda?). As for omnivores, as I pointed out, most if not all omnivores have some carnivore traits. Birds? You expect me to bolt meat so as to imitate birds? That's one of the funniest arguments I've come across in a non-vegan diet forum yet. You criticize people for citing hunter-gatherer studies (while nonetheless using HG studies yourself when it serves your needs) yet you point to birds as an example to imitate? At least hunter-gatherers are human.

Instead of engaging in bird imitation, let's look at this a bit more rationally. Bears are a pretty good example, because they're facultative carnivores who eat a lot of plant foods, so that comes pretty close to us. I could see that maybe humans are more physiologically carnivorous than I realized--more like the bears. If we don't need to chew our meat, that would argue more strongly in that direction, but I'm not convinced of that yet and still hold open the possibility that we might be physiologically omnivores who happen to eat a lot of meat (and our molars and chewing of meats are some of the best points in that direction). That might argue for at least trying bolting meats. It's something to consider and I have tried it once so far, though with poor results. Is it an acquired habit that requires practice? My grandmother used to have trouble swallowing any meats in her elder years, even when finely minced (eventually they had to be blended), because of a narrowing throat. Could it have been more narrow than avg to begin with and I inherited that?

Another obviously logical grouping of animals to examine would be our fellow primates. Do any of the primates bolt their meat/fauna, like tarsiers, say? I know chimps don't. They do the opposite--they eat their meat with leaves and chew and suck on it slowly. I've seen a couple of anthropologists claim that this is so they can savor the meat by soaking up the meat juices with the leaves and then sucking and chewing on the leaves.

We should also examine human beings, of course. The traditional Inuit were known for very powerful jaws and teeth, with the greatest crushing force ever measured in human jaws. Scientists hypothesize that they got that way because of lots of chewing.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 09:20:46 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2010, 06:58:14 pm »
Or maybe the Inuit got great teeth merely because they ate an all-meat diet, not because of any chewing. Incidentally, never heard of that claim, any articles you can link to?

As for bears, there is a danger of playing fast and loose with definitions. Technically, the only bear that HAS to eat raw meat is the polar bear which is an obligate carnivore. All other bears , except for the giant panda, are quite adapted to their mostly plant-filled diets(given the fact that their molars and pre-molars are modified to grind vegetation). As for humans, given our descent from fruit-/veg-eating ancestors, a far stronger case can be made for humans being facultative herbivores who just happen to eat meat  rather than facultative carnivores.


As for the example of birds not chewing, it is an excellent example and you've quite missed the point. I was suggesting that if chewing was biologically necessary in order to properly digest raw meats, then birds would have evolved teeth etc. designed for chewing. Instead,  meat-eating birds appear to do quite well without chewing their food.


As for citing hunter-gatherers, that is almost always a bad example(though there are sometimes unique cases where there are the only example, given lack of data for the Palaeolithic era). HGs have long adopted Neolithic-era practices so cannot really be considered natural. Wild animals are still subject to natural selection, so are a better example to follow.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline roony

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2010, 01:55:57 am »
Or maybe the Inuit got great teeth merely because they ate an all-meat diet, not because of any chewing. Incidentally, never heard of that claim, any articles you can link to?

As for bears, there is a danger of playing fast and loose with definitions. Technically, the only bear that HAS to eat raw meat is the polar bear which is an obligate carnivore. All other bears , except for the giant panda, are quite adapted to their mostly plant-filled diets(given the fact that their molars and pre-molars are modified to grind vegetation). As for humans, given our descent from fruit-/veg-eating ancestors, a far stronger case can be made for humans being facultative herbivores who just happen to eat meat  rather than facultative carnivores.


As for the example of birds not chewing, it is an excellent example and you've quite missed the point. I was suggesting that if chewing was biologically necessary in order to properly digest raw meats, then birds would have evolved teeth etc. designed for chewing. Instead,  meat-eating birds appear to do quite well without chewing their food.


As for citing hunter-gatherers, that is almost always a bad example(though there are sometimes unique cases where there are the only example, given lack of data for the Palaeolithic era). HGs have long adopted Neolithic-era practices so cannot really be considered natural. Wild animals are still subject to natural selection, so are a better example to follow.


Doesnt the fact that we thrive on Raw Meat, prove that our descent from fruit-/veg-eating ancestors is false?

Or did we somehow evolve from fruit & veg, to raw meat, which doesnt make sense, as in a jungle habitat, like the amazon, there simply is evolutionary no need to switch from fruit/veg to meat ...



Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2010, 02:52:20 am »

Doesnt the fact that we thrive on Raw Meat, prove that our descent from fruit-/veg-eating ancestors is false?

Or did we somehow evolve from fruit & veg, to raw meat, which doesnt make sense, as in a jungle habitat, like the amazon, there simply is evolutionary no need to switch from fruit/veg to meat ...

From the data we seem to have adapted to a raw omnivorous diet, including both raw meat and raw fruit/veg.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2010, 03:04:59 am »

Doesnt the fact that we thrive on Raw Meat, prove that our descent from fruit-/veg-eating ancestors is false?

Or did we somehow evolve from fruit & veg, to raw meat, which doesnt make sense, as in a jungle habitat, like the amazon, there simply is evolutionary no need to switch from fruit/veg to meat ...




Or maybe we never did evolve, and those who ate carbohydrates devolved. Lots of evidence for that. :D

Offline roony

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2010, 03:15:00 am »
From the data we seem to have adapted to a raw omnivorous diet, including both raw meat and raw fruit/veg.

Adapting to something doesnt prove an origin lol


I'm one of those people who reasons before he accepts any facts lol

Facts never helped me recover from colitis or chronic fatigue, screw em lol


Contrasts of a lack of scarcity of foods for natural selection, in hominids in a jungle setting, could be used to disprove the descended from herbivores - we could then go onto disprove we were never descended from fish, as we never ate sushi lol

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2010, 03:21:10 am »
The archaeological data supports the fact that we descended from insectivores, then herbivores then frugivores to subsequent raw omnivores. No raw zero-carb evidence of any solidity exists.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2010, 04:23:10 am »
Or maybe we never did evolve, and those who ate carbohydrates devolved. Lots of evidence for that. :D

What does devolve mean?

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2010, 06:36:32 am »
Devolve means reverse evolution.
First, believe evolution, then postulate a common ancestor with the great apes, then compare this postulate with Neolithic man.

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2010, 06:44:51 am »
Evolution does not specify a direction. Any change is evolution, whether YOU deem it forwards or backwards. The only direction that it specifies is time. Personally I wouldn't put myself in the position of deciding which genetic changes are a move forwards and which a move backwards, it's a bit egotistical.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2010, 07:36:36 am »
Or maybe the Inuit got great teeth merely because they ate an all-meat diet, not because of any chewing. Incidentally, never heard of that claim, any articles you can link to?
<<The degree to which muscle function affects craniofacial form is a complex topic. There is a large range of variations in human skull morphology, which is multifactorial. Hypermuscularity may be one factor involved. According to Collins’ "hard chewing hypothesis", the distinctive shape of the Inuit (i.e., Eskimo) skull is related to vigorous chewing. The Inuit skull is adapted to produce and dissipate large vertical and biting forces [Hylander, 1977. The adaptive significance of Eskimo craniofacial morphology. In: Orofacial growth and development. Dahlberg AA, Graber TM, editors. Berlin: Walter De Gruyter Inc., pp. 129–169.]. The Inuit skull is characterized by a large mandible, larger muscle attachments, and palatal and mandibular tori. The masseter muscles are also positioned more anteriorly, which may help generate larger forces.>>
(Craniofacial Morphology in Myostatin-deficient Mice,
http://jdr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/full/86/11/1068?ck=nck)

This is interesting in that it suggests that it wasn't so much the nutrients in meat/fat that promoted the development of unusually large jaw muscles and large, unusually-shaped craniums in the Inuit as it was the chewiness. It's only one source, of course, so I'm not saying this is conclusive. Plus, I think it was reported in this forum that others have contrarily hypothesized that it was actually the reduction in food chewiness that led to the development of larger craniums and brains in humans vs. other primates (such as by Wrangham, I think—though both you and I generally find his hypotheses to be suspect and worse).

Here are some more sources:

"According to the Guiness [sic] book of world records, one man achieved a bite force of 975 pounds for two seconds once - he was of inuit (eskimo) [sic] descent." http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_hard_can_a_man_bite

"The average biting force of an adult male human (male because, in general, we lugs are bigger and have proportionately thicker masseter muscles than females) varies between 45 and 68 kg — although forces as great as 159 kg have been recorded for Inuit males" http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/topics/r_bites.htm

"The French cranium measurers ran into serious problems in Greenland. They were working from the theory that there was a linear relation between a person's intelligence and the size of his skull. They discovered that the [Inuit] Greenlanders, whom they regarded as a transitional form of ape, had the largest skulls in the world." --Peter Hoeg, Smilla's Sense of Snow, pp. 17-18

If it were just the nutrients of the diet, and nothing to do with chewing, I don't think we'd get the result of smaller Inuit with no greater bone density still having more powerful jaws and larger skulls:

“Andersen et al. reported average differences of 10 kg in body weight and 12 cm in height in the smaller Inuit compared to Caucasian women living in Greenland. After adjustment for body size, the bone density of the Inuit women was the same as in the Caucasian women (1). Even with height and weight controlled however, there is not universal agreement that adjustment of BMD for these variables equalizes values in different ethnic groups. Actually, Finkelstein et al. found higher bone density in the lumbar spine and femoral neck in African-American, Japanese and Chinese women than in Caucasian women after adjusting for covariates of age, height and weight (2). Russell-Aulet et al. also found higher BMD in premenopausal Asian than white women when factors known to influence bone mass (height, weight, steroid use, and smoking) were controlled (3). More frequently, however, bone density is reported to be lower in Asians than Caucasians.” ("Bone Density same in Inuit Women as Caucasian after adjusting for Body Size," http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2144915/)

On the other hand, the study authors say "there is not universal agreement that adjustment of BMD for these variables equalizes values in different ethnic groups" and the data was taken from a study was published in 2005, so modern foods may have affected the Inuit data.

Quote
As for bears, there is a danger of playing fast and loose with definitions. Technically, the only bear that HAS to eat raw meat is the polar bear which is an obligate carnivore. All other bears , except for the giant panda, are quite adapted to their mostly plant-filled diets(given the fact that their molars and pre-molars are modified to grind vegetation).
You're intermixing two different concepts here: carnivorous physiology and carnivorous diet. Giant pandas eat 99% bamboo yet are nonetheless physiologically classified as carnivores. What any animal, including humans, actually eat or have the capability to eat does not necessarily determine what the scientific classification of their physiology is (else giant pandas would be categorized as herbivores), nor does it necessarily fully indicate what combination of foods is optimal for them.

Quote
As for humans, given our descent from fruit-/veg-eating ancestors, a far stronger case can be made for humans being facultative herbivores who just happen to eat meat rather than facultative carnivores.
And some of the best evidence I have seen yet is the less-carnivorous nature of our teeth and chewing habits as compared to bears and other facultative carnivores, so yes, I'm still on the fence on this and was leaning back toward omnivore until you expounded on this bolting business. If humans are meant to bolt meat that would tilt me back again in the facultative faunivore direction, for bolting seems to be found only among carnivores like canids, bears and carnivorous birds and perhaps meat-eating omnivores, and not among animals that eat little or no meat. In other words, bolting appears to be associated with meat eating. The only exception I can think of is birds that swallow seeds, but they have an adaptation in which they swallow sand or stones to grind the seeds in their gizzards. We don’t do that. Plus, even those birds tend to eat worms and insects too, and we are quite different from birds anyway.

Do any primates bolt meat? Primates would seem to be more relevant examples as regards human eating techniques than birds, bears, or canids. Granted, our digestive physiology is similar to that of canids and bears, but if bolting is natural for humans, then why do I never hear of people anywhere doing it? Not even HG tribes. Do you know of any human societies in the past or present that bolted their food?

Quote
I was suggesting that if chewing was biologically necessary in order to properly digest raw meats, then birds would have evolved teeth etc. designed for chewing. Instead, meat-eating birds appear to do quite well without chewing their food.
OK, so carnivorous birds don’t need teeth to digest meat, but that doesn't necessarily mean that humans shouldn't use the teeth they have to assist in digesting meats.

Quote
As for citing hunter-gatherers, that is almost always a bad example(though there are sometimes unique cases where there are the only example, given lack of data for the Palaeolithic era). HGs have long adopted Neolithic-era practices so cannot really be considered natural. Wild animals are still subject to natural selection, so are a better example to follow.
Devil's Dictionary definition of "unique cases": those that support Tyler's points. ;)
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2010, 06:50:20 pm »
.

Do any primates bolt meat? Primates would seem to be more relevant examples as regards human eating techniques than birds, bears, or canids. Granted, our digestive physiology is similar to that of canids and bears, but if bolting is natural for humans, then why do I never hear of people anywhere doing it? Not even HG tribes. Do you know of any human societies in the past or present that bolted their food?

  The point RPDers make is that chewing is only necessary with cooked foods. Since HG tribes don't eat all-raw diets, it's natural that they would chew not bolt down meats, out of habit. Wild animals, like I said, are a far better example.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline roony

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2010, 11:40:35 pm »
  The point RPDers make is that chewing is only necessary with cooked foods. Since HG tribes don't eat all-raw diets, it's natural that they would chew not bolt down meats, out of habit. Wild animals, like I said, are a far better example.

aajonus & basic biology support this, its actually better to swallow most types of foods, apart form carbs & starches to make them biologically available

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2010, 06:45:50 am »
...Wild animals, like I said, are a far better example.
OK, so do any other wild primates bolt their meat? Maybe tarsiers?

How many RPDers and PDers bolt their meat? I'm surprised I hadn't heard of it before I came to this forum, and people don't even talk much about it here. Is it considered too controversial to discuss much still? Please forgive my ignorance.

Also, why do I have trouble swallowing even raw meats without chewing? My grandmother had trouble swallowing meat in her elder years, so I'm wondering if my throat is smaller than avg to start with, or if it takes practice or what. I forget if that one was answered already or not. I guess if I can try eating rotted meat I can give this some more tries. If you asked me just a couple years ago if I would ever try eating rotted meat or bolting meat I would have laughed. :D
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2010, 06:55:19 am »
Well, I can only go by what long-termers say which is that they generally just chew once  and then bolt it down. No idea re primates as I'm sure the subject is too vague for scientists to focus on. At any rate, Wrangham's claim re chimpanzees needing to chew raw meats for 5.7 to 6.2 hours a day to get enough calories is clearly fraudulent. That's the main thing.I'm not so bothered if rawists want to chew or not, it's up to them.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline roony

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2010, 07:09:57 am »
OK, so do any other wild primates bolt their meat? Maybe tarsiers?

How many RPDers and PDers bolt their meat? I'm surprised I hadn't heard of it before I came to this forum, and people don't even talk much about it here. Is it considered too controversial to discuss much still? Please forgive my ignorance.

Also, why do I have trouble swallowing even raw meats without chewing? My grandmother had trouble swallowing meat in her elder years, so I'm wondering if my throat is smaller than avg to start with, or if it takes practice or what. I forget if that one was answered already or not. I guess if I can try eating rotted meat I can give this some more tries. If you asked me just a couple years ago if I would ever try eating rotted meat or bolting meat I would have laughed. :D

Mainly because your throat isnt conditioned & too constricted, use cream or butter & cut the meat into small swallowable chunks, till your throat adjusts

Offline RawZi

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2010, 07:32:24 am »
its actually better to swallow most types of foods, apart form carbs & starches to make them biologically available

    Raw foods, as I'm sure you like I don't call food food if it isn't raw.  Cooked meat needs to be chewed, I think.  I don't really know though.  I chewed cooked meat as a kid, but I never digested it, it seems.  I was pathetically thin.

use cream or butter & cut the meat into small swallowable chunks, till your throat adjusts

    Culture the butter and cream.  Butter and cream uncultured has too many carbs oftentimes for many of us here on forum, including for me.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline roony

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2010, 07:38:40 am »
   Raw foods, as I'm sure you like I don't call food food if it isn't raw.  Cooked meat needs to be chewed, I think.  I don't really know though.  I chewed cooked meat as a kid, but I never digested it, it seems.  I was pathetically thin.

    Culture the butter and cream.  Butter and cream uncultured has too many carbs oftentimes for many of us here on forum, including for me.

kwl, how do you culture the butter & cream?

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2010, 09:06:45 am »
kwl, how do you culture the butter & cream?

    http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/215434-post4.html

Quote
Add 1/3 cup of cultured buttermilk, yogurt, creme fraiche, cream fresa, etc., to a quart of the richest cream you can get. (Note, it's the bacteria in the cultured starter that's important, not its fat content. The non-cream will get a second life as buttermilk.)

Let the cream sit for between 8 and 12 hours at a temperature between 75F and 85F. The cream is cultured when it has noticeably thickened and tastes (yes!) like creme fraiche -- which, btw, it is.

Cool the cultured cream to between 50F and 60F degrees. Beat it in a stand mixer with the paddle until the butter solidifies. Separate the buttermilk and reserve for other purposes (which can include keeping refrigerated as a butter starter).

Knead the butter in ice water. Pour off the water, and continue adding ice water and kneading until the water stays clear. Form, wrap and store.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

 

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