Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!

[klowcarb]

I've actually gotten to know her after 8 months of reading her posts and I think she just craves online attention... but I could definitely be wrong

  Right, Chris. Which is why you post here, on ZIOH, on PaNu, etc. I'm sorry you haven't been able to solve your issues on ZC. I don't mean that sarcastically. I know how much you love MMA and I wish you had the energy I do. I cannot relate to your issues and I think you are a strong person for dealing with them. But I'm just posting about my experience, which I have every right to. Your sarcasm is cute, but you overrate your charm.

[redfulcrum]

Please show me the metabolic pathway for converting proteins to fat, invisible.  I've read up a biochem book also before I did it.  I couldn't find lipogenesis from excess amino acids.  Lipogenesis can only come from excess glucose.  That's why I keep bring up the whole hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen thing.

Anabolic reactions/storage

Glucose turns into glycogen and triglycerides/fats.  The latter which creates the problem of obesity in our modern society.

Fats can only be stored as fats.

Proteins can only be stored as protein.  The body will not waste energy turning protein into fat, that doesn't make any sense and bodybuilding wouldn't be possible if that were so.  It would be a net loss ATP reaction which means it's not going to burn fat just to make less fat.  If you read the post completely you would've ran into that, INVISIBLE. 

Catabolic reactions/storage

Glycogen will be released as glucose.

Fats will break down into free fatty acids and glycerol, the latter which can be used to make glucose but it's not enough for the body, especially the brain.

Protein will break down into amino acids and glucose when needed. 

So please, do let me know If I am wrong about these metabolic processes.  If you are right, where does muscle come from?  You can't stretch atoms, you can only increase their amounts.  Unless you know about some physics I don't know about. 

[RawZi]

Gaining 10lbs of muscle in less than a week is impossible, and you most certainly will gain fat on zero carb if you gorge and don't exercise.

    I've gained what appeared to be seven pounds of muscle in a week, and I wasn't even eating meat.  Maybe rf did gain ten.  Maybe he's lying.  I have no way to know which.  I'll watch it unfold.  

[Christopher]

Yes Katelyn, I post at different forums but I dont post the same exact paragraph in each thread. Yes, you are right I'm not very charming and I do have energy problems as in I can't train like I would like in my MMA practice, but at least I don't have an ed.

Redfulcrum, I apologize too since to be honest I have to give you the benefit of the doubt because it is possible that you are telling the truth. However, the only beef I really have with you know is that you didn't do a carnivorous diet because you said it yourself, you drank a lot of beer (carbs)and ate avocados and rice (carbs) so it's hard to say if those carbs might have played a role in your success as well.

[PaleoPhil]

Redfulcrum, I hope you aren't planning to do your rabbit starvation binges longterm. That doesn't sound healthy to me. You might want to research rabbit starvation and the other subjects you made some unusual claims about. I'm not interested in debating them, but I don't get the impression that you did a lot of study on them.

Katelyn may disagree with most of us, but having met her in person I feel I can safely say she's nice, so I think we should cut her some slack. She's also a convert to raw meat, so that's good advertising for the forum.

Katelyn, do you get a feeling of well being--sort of a mild euphoria--after eating raw ground beef like I do? Originally I was going to do all-raw for a while, then go back to trying cooked ZC, but I like the mild euphoria so much I can't imagine going back to cooked. I can understand why that would make you want to eat only raw ground beef. Hope you don't mind questions and suggested ideas, but I do wonder whether you should be eating some organs too on occasion, though I know Charles doesn't believe they're necessary at all. I think you said you eat 80/20 ground beef. What does that translate into in terms of % of total calories that is fat? Have you had your vitamin D (25-hydroxy vitamin D) level checked? If you've read PaNu you probably know how much Dr. Harris advocates vitamin D.

I think if you put on 5 or 10 pounds people might go easier on you. I've managed to hit my early target of 140 lbs (after having bottomed out at 122 lbs on a higher-carb cooked Paleo diet--cooked squash and tomatoes seemed particularly bad for me). Admittedly, some of it is fat, but I think it helps people relax if they see a little fat on me, since I'm not very muscular and it also proves that I don't freak out if I've got a little body fat, and I don't think a little Paleo-induced body fat is necessarily bad for me.

[klowcarb]

Chris, I didn't pick a fight with you. I do wish you well. So I'll end it here. No more talk of RAW GROUND BEEF  .  

[redfulcrum]

Good to know we're on better terms again, Christopher.  I didn't use it all the time.  I was exploring the androgenic effects of carbohydrates and alcohol.  Carbs are very androgenic, meaning they cause your body to release a lot of male hormones like testosterone.  After ingestion of meat, I would eat certain amount of carbs to try to produce a pimple.  It worked, and it didn't take much at all.  Acne is caused by excess testosterone.  Carbs also made me really horny after eating a lot of meat.  I see why they try to serve dessert after dinner now.  Females beware.  

If you ever read about HARD GAINER DIETS they have a very high carb to protein ratio possibly to create a androgenic effect.  In fact I know it does.  I can break out after a slice of bread easily.  I stumbled onto this testosterone theory when I was reading about Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome(PCOS) and how a low carb diet can stop the disease.  The disease is basically and endocrine problem.  The ovaries release too much testosterone because of the carbohydrates in the diet.  Then a lightbulb lit up in my head.  I figured there was a connection between testosterone and carbohydrates.  So I thought of giving it a try and it worked.  You will feel strong and courageous after eating some carbs after a high protein meal and overly sexual.  Talk about a confidence booster.  Alcohol does the same thing.  Liquid Courage is real.  

There aren't much carbs in an avocado.  It's a very nutritious fruit, one of the only ones I think worth eating.  Remember the bulk of the diet was lean meat, which is very deficient in nutrients compared to the fatter cuts or organs.  I did eat pounds of shrimp too, they were easy to take down and better than lean muscle.  

I have a whole other theory that adult animals do not eat as much carbs, it seems this energy source is only used for the young to grow.  Starch in the seeds for plants, honey for bee larvae, lactose for mammalian young, etc... it all opened up to me.  This would explain why the endocrine system turns on full blast in the presence of high blood sugar.    

[redfulcrum]

EVERYONE PLEASE!!!!  I know what I'm doing.  If you guys had read my post completely, you should understand what I'm trying to do.  I know how to eat a paleo diet.  I know eating lean in not normal. I know about rabbit starvation, I just went thru it on wednesday.  Calm down.   Go preach to someone who is eating a big mac or something.  Please, let me learn.  Someone has to figure out how this machine works?  I will be fine.  I used to be a medic in the Navy.  Didn't I say it was an experiment?  Bodybuilders don't stay on bulking diets forever.  Do I appear to be illogical or ignorant?  I do appreciate your concerns, thank you. 

[PaleoPhil]

You're welcome!

[redfulcrum]

Paleohil, no offense, you're 140?  Are you short?  I don't agree with men being that light.  Sorry, my honest opinion.  Eat up dude. 

[djr_81]

Do you think the carbs in liver could produce the same testosterone boosting effects?
I'd be willing to give something like this a shot in a fully raw format provided I could do it while avoiding foods that I do poorly on (food allergies). A 3 to 4 day trial shouldn't be that bad and if eating raw I'd think ~4 pounds of meat would more than do.
For the record I don't think this will work but I'm willing to test my beliefs on myself.

Paleohil, no offense, you're 140?  Are you short?  I don't agree with men being that light.  Sorry, my honest opinion.  Eat up dude. 

AFAIK Phil's always been light. He's trying to bulk up it's just a slow process.

[redfulcrum]

I don't think the liver will release glucose that quickly.  Your endocrine system runs very well without carbs.  Only carbs with a high glycemic effect can cause anabolism to speed up because your body has no way to control the absorption rate.  Well any carbs really, it all depends on how fast it absorbs.  It's all up to the user of the machine.  Can't be running on Nitrous Oxide all the time.  Your car will eventually fail.  If they're ignorant, they'll ruin this ecosystem within the body by ingesting this killer crap.  Now, that I'm aware of it, it's the same as steroid use.  Over time, the body will break down, just like any other anabolic steroid use.  Different people, different sensitivity rates, just like prescription drugs.  I just happened to be one of them that gets it without eating that much. 

[redfulcrum]

Go to youtube and pull up a bodybuilder bulking diet.  You think I eat a lot.  Check it out, I think many of you guys aren't aware of how much food you need to eat to gain muscles.  Eating makes you grow.  Look at those big giant tomatoes.  How did they get so big?  They overfeed it.  Plants eat too you know. 

[PaleoPhil]

...AFAIK Phil's always been light. He's trying to bulk up it's just a slow process.

You're basically right, though I did have a period on the SAD where I had a lot of flab and for the first time in my life people started saying I was too fat (and my triglycerides shot through the roof, my HDL was real low, my GI tract was shot, I developed kidney stones, urinary tract infections, etc. ... in other words, the fat wasn't worth it).

As I said, I've already gone from 122 lbs to 140 lbs. I didn't think further explanation was necessary, since that's an upwards direction. I'm now within the "normal" BMI range, though would still be considered too thin by most Americans (though probably not Asian Indians, Bushmen, Masai and other really thin peoples). For most of my adult years I was around 135 lbs. I was born very thin and all of my relatives were thin in their youth.

My mother used to joke that if she stood sideways the other kids couldn't hit her with snowballs--by her photos she looked like one of the thinnest children I've ever seen...the local government people even wanted to take her and her siblings away from their mother because they figured she was starving them. Back then they didn't know that gluten was highly toxic for a lot of people. Since then we've learned that I and many of my relatives do very poorly on gluten. So I'll likely always be much thinner than avg on a raw Paleo diet. It's something I'll probably have to live with. I'm eating tons of food, doing large-muscle resistance exercises and putting on some weight, so I'm pleased with my progress. I currently eat about 2.3+ pounds of meat, fat and eggs a day. So, in other words, I am already "eating up dude." It's the max I can currently stomach.

My father weighs about 150-155 lbs and both my grandfathers weighed probably about 140-145 lbs when they were healthy. I'm only a little taller than their heights. So I'm not far off the family mean healthy weight for the men in my family at this point.

BTW redfulcrum, vitamin D3 is a muscle-boosting hormone and much healthier than excessive carbs. I don't know how much carbs you're eating, but check out the blogs of Dr. William Davis, Dr. Kurt Harris, and Stephan Guyenet, the Nephropal blog, Peter's Hyperlipid blog, and the ZeroingInOnHealth forum for info on why lots of carbs are not a good idea. Those folks probably know a lot more about carbs than you and me put together. Even Tyler only eats a range of up to around 35% calories as carbs, by his rough estimate. That seems to be around the safe maximum, with a few gene-gifted people able to go higher and remain healthy. Some people, like me, have to do less carbs to stay healthy.

[redfulcrum]

Screw carbs, they take away my sexiness.  Can't live without being sexy.  LOL!!!!

The BMI thing is bogus, so is the naturally thin concept.  I bet if we were both raised in mongolia around in the Great Khan times(remember this conversation, LOL!!!), we would both be stocky. 

I was only 145 when I graduated high school.  I always thought it was genetics like everyone says.  That's why that one guy pissed me off earlier about the genetics thing and butts.  That's so much BS.  If that were so true bodybuilding wouldn't exist.  Some of those guys used to be fat or small like I was.

It wasn't my fault I was taught to eat the SAD.  My parents were immigrants and we were poor.  I can't blame them.  I blame the bastards that setup civilization up in the first place.  Think about it.  The earth crust is a fixed amount, and we might get extra stuff from meteorites here and there, but life evolved millions of millions of years with the same fixed material.  If our population started out at around 40,000 and now we're numbering 6 billion, how in the world can everyone be healthy.  It's impossible, that's why I keep talking in circles with some of these people on here because someone's parents fed them soy formula when they were younger.  Just kidding around, you know what I mean.  The more people, the uglier they get, the dumber they get, the sicker they get.  It's degeneration of the whole species.  Dr. Weston Price is a genius.  That's what happens when something interferes with an ecosystem.  The funny thing is maybe these GODS did exist in the past.  They developed these stupid grains and now we're in this big pile of crap that stinks all over for everyone and everything on this planet. 

[William]

 Remember the bulk of the diet was lean meat, which is very deficient in nutrients compared to the fatter cuts or organs.

I've been assuming that meat is the major source of nutrients, while fat is minor and mostly used for energy if raw ZC adapted.
Have you a url for this claim?

[cherimoya_kid]

Whatever we're all created to do one thing.  HUNT!  Don't tell me this genetic crap about butts.  Everyone needs big butts to hunt.  If everyone ate right, and chased animals and lifted things, I guarantee there butt would develop correctly.  I used to think asians have no butts.  They sure don't over here in DC, my viewpoint changed when I was up in Orange County, CA.  Not every damn study is valid.  Use your noggin dude.  And even if it were genetic, it still takes protein to develop a butt.  So it still goes back to diet.  We all have malnutrition, more or less.

OK, do you want me to link to the studies?  You're running on empty with your credibility. 

Use my noggin?  Are you kidding me?  I'm a moderator here for a reason.  I know what I'm talking about.

You're cruising for a ban.

[redfulcrum]

Sounds like your abusing your authority, I just said you to use your noggin.  Not like I said something that mean or personal.  Ban me if you want to act that petty. 

[redfulcrum]

What are you? the all knowing forums admin.  Who runs this show? 

[redfulcrum]

Can you believe this guy? Threaten to ban me instead of trying to debate his point of view.  Sounds like he's The Almighty himself.

[redfulcrum]

Wow, this is outstanding.  From someone else I wouldn't really care about, but from a moderator that self proclaimed to know what he's talking about.  How did you ever become a moderator in the first place and what reason is it that you are one?  I can't believe this is happening.  Is there a full moon out tonight?  This guy. 

[cherimoya_kid]

Here comes the debate.  You're not behaving in a manner worthy of being debated on the subject, and I'm 70% certain I'm going to ban you.  However, here is the link, with citations included within it, that proves my point:
isteve.blogspot.com/2007/09/black-v-white-physical-differences-in.html


Scroll down to see the extensive bibliography.

I have noticed that black people tend to have larger buttocks for many years.  It has nothing to do with diet.  It's genetic.  I'm not saying that every black person has larger buttocks than every white person...there's plenty of overlap between the races in size of all body parts, not just buttocks.  However, on average, there are differences in a number of body part sizes between races. It's a fact. You can study up on it if you want, but I'm warning you, a ban is coming if you don't back down on this, and change your tone and posting style.  Your behavior is basically coming pretty close to trolling, you're not teaching any of us anything new. We have plenty of ZC people and bodybuilders here, and my philosophy is, you better obey forum rules carefully if you're not bringing anything new to the discussion. I'm not playing.


Here's another link, specifically mentioning how blacks have more muscle mass on their limbs, and less in the torso:

racehist.blogspot.com/2009/12/racial-differences-in-muscle-mass.html

I'm not saying that eating a diet very high in muscle meat won't change your musculature.  Sure it will.  However, your hypothesis was that the difference between black and white buttock size is diet-related.  It is not.  The black and white people I know all eat about the same diet, and the black people have larger buttocks, on average.  As well, the papers I linked above also remove credibility for your hypothesis.

Let me be clear--you will do one of three things.

1.  Retract your statement

2.  Provide support in the form of links to scientific studies

3.  Be banned.

You will also be banned if you do not change your posting style and tone to a more respectful one.  I don't have to tolerate your behavior.  We are here to learn about diet, not to be preached at.


Here's one more link:

erectuswalksamongst.us/Chap10.html

Here's a quote from that link:

"22) The gluteal (buttocks) muscles in Africans and Caucasians are “stacked,” but they are “offset” in Asians, making Asian buttocks flatter. These muscles are thicker in blacks."

[redfulcrum]

That's the hoops I have to jump through.  What if i want to talk about it and I can't find a study to back it up, so I get banned.  You think studying modern people is a good representation of our genetics?  Nutrition is a big factor in the development of human beings.  If this study was made during paleo times would things be different?  You don't think black's bones are denser because they don't care about the food pyramid like white's do?  Are my points not valid?  Maybe it's the chitterlings with their fat soluble vitamins that keeps their bones strong.  When was the last time you heard white people eating guts?  I don't see how your study proves anything. 

I am not retracting my statement. 

I am not finding any study to prove my point.  Why does everything need proof?  They have PROOF about fat and cholesterol, but that doesn't make it true.  We all know that.  That's why we're all here for the same reason, because we know the PROOF is wrong. 

Go ahead and ban me if I can't even speak my mind here.  I thought this is a laid back place to meet others and talk about RPD, not some authoritative censored forum.  I think you're out of line. 

BTW, I already messaged the main man. 

[phatdave]

Let us not be so hasty towards a person that is so keen to make ground that they aren't afraid to step on toes. The important thing are his intentions, and they are good.

This debate is stimulating and positive on the whole, and should be a part of our forum.

[goodsamaritan]

I'm enjoying this thread.  I may do some kind of experiment like this too.