Author Topic: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!  (Read 88607 times)

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djr_81

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #150 on: January 19, 2010, 05:58:08 am »
That doesn't seem like a good idea, just my "gut" reaction. Too much acid, yeast, sugar... I used to brew but became convinced it's just not a healthy or natural food.

Please don't drink alcohol, especially now (another thing I'm glad to be rid of, and I heartily defended it)

Both are a good idea IMO.
The thrush is indicative of a Candida overgrowth. The A. Albicans organism will feed quite contentedly on both the Kombucha and alcohol. I've been there with both of them.
Sticking to as much fat as you can comfortably consume at the moment and balancing with adequate lean is the best course of action now. There are plenty of herbs and oils you can use to get more aggressive with the yeast but you sound like your body's not really up for a huge die-off at the moment so the fat & meat (try to eat them raw) are your best bet.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #151 on: January 19, 2010, 06:46:49 am »
DANGER, DANGER, DANGER!!!!!

I haven't been posting because I was dying from extreme rabbit starvation.  DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS EXPERIMENT!  PLEASE, don't. ...
Sorry you had to learn the hard way and hope you get better soon.

Quote
Those stupid doctors gave me a beta blocker, atenolol, because they thought I had an anxiety attack.
Your reported symptoms do resemble an anxiety attack, but regardless, it's best not to fool around with rabbit starvation. Besides, fats from wild and pasture-fed animal and seafood sources are the healthiest macronutrient.

----------

Re: my weight...while it is still lower than I'd like it to be (though I'd prefer to add mostly muscle, rather than fat, as in the past), society's perceptions have also changed on what is "too thin," as explained in an article that Dr. Davis recently published, by coincidence, at:

Look like Jimmy Stewart
By William Davis, MD
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/look-like-jimmy-stewart.html

"Unfortunately, many Americans have forgotten what normal looks like. Normal is certainly not a 190-lb, 5 ft 4 in woman, nor is it a 228 lb, 5 ft 11 inch man. But Americans have put on so much weight that the prevailing view of what constitutes "normal" weight has been revised upward. Normal is closer to what we see in old movies from the 1940s and '50s with people like Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed. That's what we are supposed to look like."

So even though I'd like to bulk up further, it's mainly for looks at this point, rather than health necessity.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 07:03:57 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline redfulcrum

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #152 on: January 20, 2010, 12:54:29 am »
Wow, what an experience.  I'm glad I didn't die and I'm glad I went thru it.  It taught me a lot about the human body, even though it was mine.  The whole idea that proteins are excreted when eaten in excess is a myth.  Turns out that amino acids build up in the blood,  leaving you in a chronically high insulin state decreasing energy utilization from the stored fat.  The heart tries to get enough fuel by increasing the pulse rate and pressure to get enough fat.  The problem is you eventually get a heart attack or a stroke unless fat or carbs are put in the diet.  I had to eat fat slowly because too much at one time will also increase the pressure and rate.  Took me 4 days to clear out the excess amino acids in the bloodstream.  Once amino acids are clear from the system, hunger and circadian rythym will return including your sanity. 

The diet can work but can only be used short term.  Everyone thought I was on steroids by the growth rate that took place.  I suppose you can bulk up with carbs to counter the effect of protein.  Either way, bulking is dangerous on the long term.  Nature has a way to deal with gluttony. 

Learned a lot about chinese medicine too.  I never had hypertension before, but let me tell you, bruising the skin is awesome.  The relief is instantaneous unlike taking a pill.  I need to study more eastern medicine. 

After this event taking place, I will never neglect my body again ever.  Every organ is important.  Even the most benign acts like drinking starbucks can have detrimental effects on the long term.  I have no desire to drink alcohol anymore after this.  My poor liver has been through so much trauma.  I can't see why anyone would want a high metabolism.  I hate it. 
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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #153 on: January 20, 2010, 02:26:08 am »
Wow, what an experience.  I'm glad I didn't die and I'm glad I went thru it.  It taught me a lot about the human body, even though it was mine.  The whole idea that proteins are excreted when eaten in excess is a myth.  Turns out that amino acids build up in the blood,  leaving you in a chronically high insulin state decreasing energy utilization from the stored fat.  The heart tries to get enough fuel by increasing the pulse rate and pressure to get enough fat.  The problem is you eventually get a heart attack or a stroke unless fat or carbs are put in the diet.  I had to eat fat slowly because too much at one time will also increase the pressure and rate.  Took me 4 days to clear out the excess amino acids in the bloodstream.  Once amino acids are clear from the system, hunger and circadian rythym will return including your sanity. 

The diet can work but can only be used short term.  Everyone thought I was on steroids by the growth rate that took place.  I suppose you can bulk up with carbs to counter the effect of protein.  Either way, bulking is dangerous on the long term.  Nature has a way to deal with gluttony. 

Learned a lot about chinese medicine too.  I never had hypertension before, but let me tell you, bruising the skin is awesome.  The relief is instantaneous unlike taking a pill.  I need to study more eastern medicine. 

After this event taking place, I will never neglect my body again ever.  Every organ is important.  Even the most benign acts like drinking starbucks can have detrimental effects on the long term.  I have no desire to drink alcohol anymore after this.  My poor liver has been through so much trauma.  I can't see why anyone would want a high metabolism.  I hate it. 

The cognoscenti say starbucks tastes like charcoal (this from the usenet group alt.coffee).

You pushed the limit, and learned something - I wonder if this could be comparable to those whose experience is medically described as poisoning, while long-term lesser but still excessive is profitably  called by many names.
I'm thinking of excess carbohydrates, called everything from bipolar disorder to ischemic disease to  obesity, Another one is mercury poisoning, no symptoms of its own at all unless it is so extreme that the body cannot store it.

I thought of low-level protein poisoning for my problem years ago, but had no way of testing for truth.

Offline jessica

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #154 on: January 20, 2010, 08:50:28 am »
the liver has a good memory
you should really treat it VERY kindly

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #155 on: January 20, 2010, 02:45:35 pm »
I upped my protein intake just like the raw meat using body builders.
Striving to get at least 125 grams of protein a day to match my 125 lbs.
1 kg a day.  Can't eat more than that.
On my 2nd day now with me in touch with my coach.

instead of eating 1g of protein per lb of body weight, eat  1 - 1.5 grams for every pound of lean body mass. The bodybuilder you are talking to is probably very muscular which is why they said that. If you are fat with little muscle you are getting too much protein.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #156 on: January 20, 2010, 03:15:20 pm »
I'm slim with new biceps.
How do I determine lean body mass?

This thread made me think about the quantity of meat I am eating.  Maybe 1/2 kilo or 1.1 lbs of meat a day is not enough.  It's a ladies diet.  Eating 1 kilo a day is double of what I'm used to eating.  I remember Aajonus saying we should eat 1 to 3 lbs of meat a day.

So far after 3 days the only immediate effect I have to report is testosterone.  Yeah, horny. 

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #157 on: January 20, 2010, 03:52:50 pm »
So far after 3 days the only immediate effect I have to report is testosterone.  Yeah, horny. 

Is this predominantly from a high protein diet or high fat?
great side effect, eh
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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #158 on: January 20, 2010, 04:33:47 pm »
High protein.
I had to lessen the proportion of fat I'm eating so I can eat more protein.  Otherwise I'd be so full.
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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #159 on: January 20, 2010, 04:56:03 pm »
High protein.
I had to lessen the proportion of fat I'm eating so I can eat more protein.  Otherwise I'd be so full.

Thanks for the update. Keep us posted on your 'experiment'
Be careful though, you dont want to risk the chance of rabbit starvation
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Offline redfulcrum

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #160 on: January 21, 2010, 10:20:44 pm »
Protein will not fatten you up.  I learned that first hand. 
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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #161 on: January 22, 2010, 12:43:28 am »
redfulcrum,

You should probably edit your first post in this thread to include the warning (or ask a mod to do it).

If someone reads just the first posts and decides to try it, they could get in trouble -d. It did cross my mind to at least increase my lean meat intake.


Offline redfulcrum

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #162 on: January 22, 2010, 12:47:27 am »
Good Idea. 

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #163 on: January 22, 2010, 01:02:04 am »
This was quite ridiculous.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

William

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #164 on: January 22, 2010, 03:44:12 am »
Ridiculous, maybe, but it sure got everyone's attention, and I learned that excess amino acids remain in the blood much longer than I thought.
Not that I thought of it.   ;)

Offline RawpaleoHealthdiet

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #165 on: March 02, 2010, 02:50:39 am »
 Hey Redful! Good job,everything you say is true your 100% dead on. I am doing the same thing I even have  video.

http://freedomforcreation.posterous.com/fw-the-sasuke-challage-getting-fit-in-under-a

 You remind me of me,we even have the same pink color on ur avatars. But thats not important.

 As you know NOBODY knows this simple secret to get cut and put on muscle...even most of the people here didn't know.

Your courage to take on this task through your own mindframe is admirable. We can make a ton of dough spreading the word about paleo dieting.

I am a daoist. My friend and mentor Wan qi Kim told me this simple secret on weight loss on a site called Journik.com. Its a "dojo for your mind" and explains the hardest challenges in life always turn out to have the simplest answers.

Bodybuilders take years to build there body, they intake soo many carbs. Yet if they only knew that if they ate protein with no carbs or fat that the body would use its on fat to digest it...

Even Vince Gironda didn't know this. He is said to be the greatest bodybuilder of all time. He got close though by saying "protein cannot be digested without sugar or fat so always eat protein with carbs"

 Sadly he never recommended that people who already had fat could use pure protein as a method of cutting...

 All of life's greatest secrets are this simple thats what Wan and Journik has taught me.

Our Ego looks for big grand things, but its yin and yang. The biggest most powerful secrets are the smallest simplest things, its just nature.

And to think the use cafffine, Ephdra stacks and workout. And the workouts are brutal and actually body damaging....

If only they knew that they don't need to workout like that. Male lions don't workout...heck they don't even hunt the females do that.
They do burn tons of energy getting food, fighting,and sex but no more than what they are passionate about.

 There are so many personal trainers professional nutritionist that are getting PAID and know nothing like what we (this site) know.
We have more edcucation than PHDS,Doctors,Nutritionist. We have better than Harvard education in nutrition...

 But its SOOOO simple that we dont see. Tell me how you feel about my blog.And Journik...

thanks!
Twitter.com/healthdiets

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http://freedomforcreation.posterous.com/

William

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #166 on: March 02, 2010, 06:09:04 am »
if they only knew that if they ate protein with no carbs or fat that the body would use its on fat to digest it...

Yes, and then die from rabbit starvation.

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #167 on: March 24, 2010, 02:29:40 pm »
Yes, and then die from rabbit starvation.

I've been eating very lean steaks (all fat trimmed and no marbling) for 18 days now, I set new PRs on some lifts and calisthenics and I lost 8.5 lbs, I doubt rabbit starvation happens unless you have a lower body fat, maybe 8-9% or under (I'm at 13% now), that's what stored fat is for, when food is lean. The protein and resistance exercise are to preserve lean muscle mass so you can look good naked and still smash faces if you need to, no point in being lean and weak.

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #168 on: March 24, 2010, 08:38:29 pm »
Yeah, I have the same theory.

I think that rabbit starvation will probably happen a lot faster if you don't eat any carbs either. But I think this forum is a bit crazy on fat tbh, you only need a fair amount of fat. People here make it sounds like you need to be stuffing your face with fat all the time which I think is mostly due to ignorance.

I hunt a lot of wild game, and believe me, fat isn't as abundant as you think. Most of these animals are very very lean.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #169 on: March 24, 2010, 10:09:45 pm »
Yeah, I have the same theory.

I think that rabbit starvation will probably happen a lot faster if you don't eat any carbs either. But I think this forum is a bit crazy on fat tbh, you only need a fair amount of fat. People here make it sounds like you need to be stuffing your face with fat all the time which I think is mostly due to ignorance.

I hunt a lot of wild game, and believe me, fat isn't as abundant as you think. Most of these animals are very very lean.
  I entirely agree. I've been saying much the same thing for years, that rabbit-starvation requires much lower levels of fat-consumption than people think and that palaeo tribes survived very well in winters(on virtually no carbs)  despite eating only raw wild game which was much leaner/less fatty than modern animals.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #170 on: March 25, 2010, 07:29:55 pm »
 
Yeah, I have the same theory.
 I think that rabbit starvation will probably happen a lot faster if you don't eat any carbs either.
Does anyone know the minimal amount of carbs or fats to eat to avoid rabbit starvation, and by what exact mechanism insufficient carbs and fats causes it? The hypotheses at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation) don’t seem that convincing.
 
Quote
But I think this forum is a bit crazy on fat tbh, you only need a fair amount of fat. People here make it sounds like you need to be stuffing your face with fat all the time which I think is mostly due to ignorance.
Please try to refrain from making negative personal characterizations about other posters, especially when the comments are based on assumptions about them rather than their actual behavior here. I find that discussion is optimized when we report our own experiences and ask others to share theirs rather than try to apply our individual experience to everyone, and when we ask questions of each other rather than make assumptions. I'll treat your characterization as if it had been a question:

Question: "Do you eat lots of fat because you are unaware of the leanness of wild muscle meats?"
Answer: No, I was well aware of that. The main reason I eat lots of fat is because I do best when I do.

Quote
I hunt a lot of wild game, and believe me, fat isn't as abundant as you think. Most of these animals are very very lean.
The intramuscular tissue of wild and grass-finished animals is very lean, yes, but are you aware that the enormous megafauna that were preferentially hunted by Stone Agers had large fat depots that evidence indicates were valued more than the lean muscle meat, and that hunter gatherers of today still prefer fat to lean? Here are some sources:

Adults only. Reindeer hunting at the Middle Palaeolithic site Salzgitter Lebenstedt, Northern Germany
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1557221
Both Homo sapiens neanderthalensis of the Middle Pleistocene and Homo sapiens sapiens of the Upper Paleolithic preferentially hunted reindeer when they were at their fattest (the fall) and preferentially selected their fattiest parts (such as the best marrow bones).

Cultural and Environmental Implications of Hippopotamus Bone Remains in Archaeological Contexts in the Levant
by LK Horwitz - 1990
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1357310
"one hippopotamus can yield some 90 kg of fat"

Arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson reported that Inuits and other Native Americans also preferentially hunted the fattiest animals and preferentially ate the backslab and perinephric fat of land mammals and the blubber from sea mammals like seal and walrus. (Stefansson, The Fat of the Land, 1956)

Another Arctic explorer and anthropologist, Hugh Brody, also reported that Inuits and Dene preferentially ate fat. (Hugh Brody, Living Arctic, 1987)

Other Arctic explorers have reported the importance of eating plentiful fat in very cold climates: "One effect of the cold was to give a most ravenous appetite for fat. Many a time have we eaten great lumps of lard grease - rancid tallow, used for making candles - without bread or anything to modify it." (Viscount Milton and Walter Butler Cheadle, The North-West Passage by Land: Being the narrative of an expedition from the Atlantic to the Pacific, undertaken with the view of exploring a route across the continent to British Columbia through British territory, by one of the northern passes in the Rocky Mountains, 1865)
 
Do you know what the avg percentage fat intake by calories of traditional Arctic peoples like the Inuit was? Are you familiar with the research of Wortman, Phinney and Westman on high-fat diets?


... that rabbit-starvation requires much lower levels of fat-consumption than people think ...
Did you mean to write "that avoiding rabbit-starvation requires..."?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #171 on: March 25, 2010, 08:54:38 pm »
Quote
Please try to refrain from making negative personal characterizations about other posters, especially when the comments are based on assumptions about them rather than their actual behavior here. I find that discussion is optimized when we report our own experiences and ask others to share theirs rather than try to apply our individual experience to everyone, and when we ask questions of each other rather than make assumptions. I'll treat your characterization as if it had been a question:

Question: "Do you eat lots of fat because you are unaware of the leanness of wild muscle meats?"
Answer: No, I was well aware of that. The main reason I eat lots of fat is because I do best when I do.

Negative personal characterizations? Not sure where I see that.

But anywho, your whole post is boring and unpersonal.. Not gonna bother replying but I can tell you that I disagree whole heartedly.

I've been in the wild, I've survived in the wild and fat is not abundant. Especially if there was a group hunt. And also I do badly when I eat alot of fat daily. I get fatter, lower energy, brain fog etc.

But you're welcome to disagree, just don't say ridicoulus things like "Negative personal characterizations". That was just not true, and quite rude.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 11:58:01 pm by ForTheHunt »
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline ys

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #172 on: March 25, 2010, 10:59:37 pm »
Quote
I've been in the wild, I've survived in the wild and fat is not abundant.

well, it depends what you call 'wild'.

if you are hunting white tail deer or rabbits, then yes, they are very lean.
but if you hunt seals, those are probably 50% fat by weight. whales are pretty fatty too.
bears are very fat coming into winter months.  wild bizon has loads of fat.  caribou is not lean.

any land game coming into spring will be much leaner than coming into winter.

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #173 on: March 25, 2010, 11:55:51 pm »
well, it depends what you call 'wild'.

if you are hunting white tail deer or rabbits, then yes, they are very lean.
but if you hunt seals, those are probably 50% fat by weight. whales are pretty fatty too.
bears are very fat coming into winter months.  wild bizon has loads of fat.  caribou is not lean.

any land game coming into spring will be much leaner than coming into winter.


I've hunted boar, seal, reindeer, all types of bird, wild yaks..

all of them very lean, except for seal perhaps. And I try to avoid seal because it taste absoloutely horrid and they are most often then not infected with lots of parasites.. (whether thats a good thing or bad, still undecided on that)
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

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Re: Gained 10lbs. of MUSCLE in less than a week!
« Reply #174 on: March 26, 2010, 12:00:39 am »
Quote
I've hunted boar, seal, reindeer, all types of bird, wild yaks..

if you get a chance, next time you hunt, please take a picture after you butcher the kill, if you can of course.
there is a lot of discussion on 'fatness' of different animals and if you have pictures that would be great.

 

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