Urban Caveman Article

[extralizard13]

When I signed into AIM this morning, and that news page came up, this happened to be there: http://www.thatsfit.com/2010/01/12/urban-cavemen-eating-like-our-ancestors-did/?icid=main|aim|dl5|link6|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thatsfit.com%2F2010%2F01%2F12%2Furban-cavemen-eating-like-our-ancestors-did%2F

I believe its more paleo, than raw paleo, however its some publicity anyways. (It bugs me a little that its under Men's Health, but not Women's as well, but oh well.)

[PaleoPhil]

I had seen that article, but it was extremely anti-Paleo and seemingly obscure (I didn't notice that it was an AOL site) and it quoted Dr. Oz, one of my least-favorite diet gurus, so I didn't bother to post it here. It's one of the worst articles on Paleo I've seen yet. A friend of mine told me that it made the front page of the AOL Website, which is further indication that Paleo is becoming better-known in the mass media. It's too bad that most of the articles about Paleo and many of the comments on them are derogatory and use ugly stereotypes and ridicule.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Mohandas K. Gandhi

We seem to have reached the "laugh at you" stage.

[TylerDurden]

Hm,, that sounds suspiciously similiar  to Schopenhauer whose original quotation was:-

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. "

[PaleoPhil]

That's the quote I was trying to think of, but the Gandhi quote was all I could find. Interestingly, it may be that NEITHER Schopenhauer nor Gandhi said anything of the sort, for both attributions are disputed. It is frequently the case that popular quotations get attributed to more famous personages. Saying they come from Sir James Mackenzie and Nicholas Klein is not nearly as impressive. Does anyone have an original source for either of these quotes?


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." --popularly attributed to Arthur Schopenhauer (1788 to 1860)

Disputed, according to http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer#Disputed

          o As cited in Truth : Resuming the Age of Reason (2006) by Mahlon Marr; the earliest attribution of this to Schopenhauer yet found dates to around 1986; it is also sometimes misattributed to George Bernard Shaw, and a similar statement is often attributed to Mahatma Gandhi: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
          o Variant : Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized. In the first it is ridiculed, in the second it is opposed, in the third it is regarded as self- evident.
          o The earliest similar statements yet found in published works online are:
          o It has been said that the reception of an original contribution to knowledge may be divided into three phases: during the first it is ridiculed as not true, impossible or useless; during the second, people say that there may be something in it but it would never be of any practical use; and in the third and final phase, when the discovery has received general recognition, there are usually people who say that it is not original and has been anticipated by others. [a note at the bottom of the page adds: This saying seems to have originated from Sir James Mackenzie (The Beloved Physician, by R. M. Wilson, John Murray, London)]
                + William Ian Beardmore Beveridge, in The Art of Scientific Investigation (1955), p. 113
          o First, it is ridiculed; second, it is subject to argument: third, it is accepted.
                + Earl B. Morgan, in "The Accident Prevention Problem in the Small Shop" in Safety Engineering Vol. 33 (1950), p. 366
          o The four stages of acceptance: 1. This is worthless nonsense. 2. This is an interesting, but perverse, point of view. 3. This is true, but quite unimportant. 4. I always said so.
                + J. B. S. Haldane, Journal of Genetics 1963 (Vol 58, p.464) in a review of 'The Truth About Death'.


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” --popularly attributed to Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869 - 1948)

Disputed, according to http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi
A close variant of the quotation first appears in a 1914 US trade union address by Nicholas Klein:

        "And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you. And that, is what is going to happen to the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America." --General Executive Board Report and Proceedings, Biennial Convention, Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America (1914)

[extralizard13]

I had seen that article, but it was extremely anti-Paleo and seemingly obscure (I didn't notice that it was an AOL site) and it quoted Dr. Oz, one of my least-favorite diet gurus, so I didn't bother to post it here. It's one of the worst articles on Paleo I've seen yet. A friend of mine told me that it made the front page of the AOL Website, which is further indication that Paleo is becoming better-known in the mass media. It's too bad that most of the articles about Paleo and many of the comments on them are derogatory and use ugly stereotypes and ridicule.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Mohandas K. Gandhi

We seem to have reached the "laugh at you" stage.

That's often how Western medicine has worked (I know nothing of any other type, frankly, so I can't say much on that). In finding the cure of scurvy, doctors or ship captains would find something that would, seemingly, make people better, however would be ignored by the populous (of doctors), for whatever political reason. One doctor found that lemons did a great job of curing it (although never thought that it could be prevented), however at the time, Spain controlled South America, which made lemons very expensive. So nobody used his tonic. In another story, a sailor had asked help from the local natives (in the Northern USA, near Maine, if I remember correctly) for some help, for their crew was dying. They gave a concoction of the local flora, taught him how to make it, and gave it to him. Most of the crew survived (those that hadn't already died, really), yet they never did anything with this knowledge.

[William]

That's often how Western medicine has worked (I know nothing of any other type, frankly, so I can't say much on that). In finding the cure of scurvy, doctors or ship captains would find something that would, seemingly, make people better, however would be ignored by the populous (of doctors), for whatever political reason. One doctor found that lemons did a great job of curing it (although never thought that it could be prevented), however at the time, Spain controlled South America, which made lemons very expensive. So nobody used his tonic. In another story, a sailor had asked help from the local natives (in the Northern USA, near Maine, if I remember correctly) for some help, for their crew was dying. They gave a concoction of the local flora, taught him how to make it, and gave it to him. Most of the crew survived (those that hadn't already died, really), yet they never did anything with this knowledge.

More mysterious than that - Ferdinand Magellan, first to sail around the whole earth, AFAIK never had a scurvy problem on his 2 year voyage. The reason was that he was wise enough to take barrels of sauerkraut with him, and raw sauerkraut is loaded with vitamin C, enzymes, lactobacillus.

One guess as to why later shipowners never gave their crews sauerkraut is that if they died, they would not have to pay them. No survivor benefits either.

[extralizard13]

More mysterious than that - Ferdinand Magellan, first to sail around the whole earth, AFAIK never had a scurvy problem on his 2 year voyage. The reason was that he was wise enough to take barrels of sauerkraut with him, and raw sauerkraut is loaded with vitamin C, enzymes, lactobacillus.

One guess as to why later shipowners never gave their crews sauerkraut is that if they died, they would not have to pay them. No survivor benefits either.

Haha. Captain Cook would tell the cook to sneak greens into the sailors' diets. Of course, he spent a lot of time on New Zealand's coast. His ship's doctor would study the Aborigine diets.

That was one of the reasons why its believed that the Dutch tended to have healthier sailors then the British was because of the saurkraut in their diet (when the captains or ship owners DID feed it to them, lol). A really big cure for scurvy used to be malt, which has absolutely no vitamin C in it, lol.

[TylerDurden]

The sauerkraut mention is disputed because, in the British Navy at least, sauerkraut was too overcooked to have vitamin C in any real amounts in it.

By the way PP, very interesting info. I suppose I should from now on be more wary re including quotations unless I have specifically read it in a book written by that very person.

[extralizard13]

The sauerkraut mention is disputed because, in the British Navy at least, sauerkraut was too overcooked to have vitamin C in any real amounts in it.

It, of course, depends on what era we're talking about, haha. I'm mostly talking about the 18th century. I read a book, Scurvy, which goes over general history of it and how it was treated in the British Navy. The information may be a little outdated now. That happens too often--a minute a book is published, a new study or paper is published that disputes everything.

The only medical scientist I've come to like from the 18th century was John Hunter, who tended to use experiments, while most anatomists didn't, and therefore took to what worked. He was also a little off in the head, I think. Which makes him all the more entertaining.