How much raw meat do you eat?

[livingthelife]

I've been through this recently too, I found it's an adjustment phase to fat-based rather than glucose-based metabolism.

[miles]

Ok. I did eat lots of fat before(in the beginning of having lots of fat I think I felt sluggish but then adapted, don't remember)... but it was cooked. I always had fruit if I thought I might start to feel sluggish so I would never really get that way, but by the end I had cut-out fruit and I felt amply energetic still or more so. I then went raw meat, because I felt that with only cooked meat I wouldn't get enough water-soluble micro-nutrients, and also I think the fruit was hydrating me in a way that water on it's own wouldn't. Besides, for whatever reason I felt I needed to balance out the cooked meat with raw veg, like the ying/yang idea in oriental cooking e.g. Cucumber/Chilli or something.

Is digestion/absorption/metabolism of raw fat different again from cooked fat? It feels as though the fat is going around in my blood but just hogging space and effort but not actually providing any energy... *shrug*

[roony]

I'll get some VitD supplement then. One comment said about it only being absorbed with fat but that this wouldn't happen in the gut. Is this right? So if I got powder rather than D already mixed with fat, and I ate the tablet with a fatty meal, I still wouldn't absorb most of it?

Also, what do you think about the K2 thing, what do you do/know about that?

+... If I have fruit it causes me inflammation(Skin, muscles and wherever else)... It seemed to say there that Vit.D3/K2 increase tolerance of carbs. Would that include resistance to inflammation/gout(I think that's pretty much just chronic inflammation anyway).

Another thing... I'd probably work it out through modification anyway after a while, but since going fruit-free and raw(I did them both at the same time and only recently) I have had slightly dry/cracked lips. Does anyone know why this could be..?

I'll get some VitD supplement then. One comment said about it only being absorbed with fat but that this wouldn't happen in the gut. Is this right? So if I got powder rather than D already mixed with fat, and I ate the tablet with a fatty meal, I still wouldn't absorb most of it?

Also, what do you think about the K2 thing, what do you do/know about that?

+... If I have fruit it causes me inflammation(Skin, muscles and wherever else)... It seemed to say there that Vit.D3/K2 increase tolerance of carbs. Would that include resistance to inflammation/gout(I think that's pretty much just chronic inflammation anyway).

Another thing... I'd probably work it out through modification anyway after a while, but since going fruit-free and raw(I did them both at the same time and only recently) I have had slightly dry/cracked lips. Does anyone know why this could be..?

Cooked fats are toxic & indigested poorly by the body, you could go as far as saying theyre poisonous, raw fats are the building blocks of your body, your muscles are around 60-70% fat, so is your brain


Dry, cracked lips, are all symptoms & signs of deficiencies in fats, in fact theyre probably the best indicator

You could try brushing your teeth with a butter & activated charcoal mixture, & ingesting plenty of charcoal to get rid of your inflammation & other allergies, basically two small teaspoons of charcoal mixed with about 3 or 4 centimeters of water in height, in a shot glass, or a shallow glass, 3 times a day, will clear up your inflammation & allergies


Try eating tons of fatty cheap cuts, like breast of lamb, or brisket, as well as plenty of bone marrow & lard or drippings, or tons of raw butter & cream with optional raw honey

[aunaturale]

I've been through this recently too, I found it's an adjustment phase to fat-based rather than glucose-based metabolism.

typically for most ppl, how long does this phase last before the body
is fully adapted to fat-based?

[roony]

typically for most ppl, how long does this phase last before the body
is fully adapted to fat-based?

About 3 to 6 months, but as long you detox correctly, ie eat green salads & plenty of raw butter & cream, even less a cple of weeks or so, but you'll have so much energy from the raw meat you wont notice it

It's also crucial you exercise & aerate your body at this stage, ie light exercise no longer then 15 minutes, as strenous exercise longer then 15 or 20 minutes can damage your heart

[aunaturale]

About 3 to 6 months, but as long you detox correctly, ie eat green salads & plenty of raw butter & cream, even less a cple of weeks or so, but you'll have so much energy from the raw meat you wont notice it

It's also crucial you exercise & aerate your body at this stage, ie light exercise no longer then 15 minutes, as strenous exercise longer then 15 or 20 minutes can damage your heart

Thanks Roony!!!!

[miles]

If I don't eat fruit, you guys think I should still eat raw vegetables? Would that include stuff like carrots/cabbage, or just leafy stuff like lettuce and.. well, leaves. You mentioned curing inflammation with charcoal.. won't it gradually go now anyway? It has seemed to be disappearing now, gradually. Will that charcoal just speed things up, or would I be left over with some if I don't do it? Isn't Dripping(like beef-dripping) Cooked?

Isn't raw-honey is high-fructose? I thought fructose(or maybe sugar or even carbs in general) was mainly what caused my inflammation?



When you said 'you'll have so much energy from the raw meat you wont notice it' what do you mean?

& Why would butter be good? Is that only if my meat didn't have enough fat?

[A lot of points/questions I know, but...]

When you say about damaging your heart, is that because you naturally need a larger/stronger heart & lung/ cardiovascular system to handle fat-metabolism efficiently without carbs?

[livingthelife]

typically for most ppl, how long does this phase last before the body
is fully adapted to fat-based?

For me it was a few weeks. At first I cut back on carbs significantly and became extremely uncomfortable (within days) so I went back to several servings of fruit a day and phased out more slowly (within a few weeks).

I still eat some fruit but maintain trace ketones, which I'm comfortable with. 

I found good info on this transition on low carb forums, since that is really the focus of those diets.

[miles]

B.U.M.P

I'll get some VitD supplement then. One comment said about it only being absorbed with fat but that this wouldn't happen in the gut. Is this right? So if I got powder rather than D already mixed with fat, and I ate the tablet with a fatty meal, I still wouldn't absorb most of it?

Also, what do you think about the K2 thing, what do you do/know about that?

+... If I have fruit it causes me inflammation(Skin, muscles and wherever else)... It seemed to say there that Vit.D3/K2 increase tolerance of carbs. Would that include resistance to inflammation/gout(I think that's pretty much just chronic inflammation anyway).

Another thing... I'd probably work it out through modification anyway after a while, but since going fruit-free and raw(I did them both at the same time and only recently) I have had slightly dry/cracked lips. Does anyone know why this could be..?

Since eating raw meat and no fruit(don't know if it's because the fat is raw, because I don't have sugar, or both), having much fat has made me feel really sluggish...

Ok. I did eat lots of fat before(in the beginning of having lots of fat I think I felt sluggish but then adapted, don't remember)... but it was cooked. I always had fruit if I thought I might start to feel sluggish so I would never really get that way, but by the end I had cut-out fruit and I felt amply energetic still or more so. I then went raw meat, because I felt that with only cooked meat I wouldn't get enough water-soluble micro-nutrients, and also I think the fruit was hydrating me in a way that water on it's own wouldn't. Besides, for whatever reason I felt I needed to balance out the cooked meat with raw veg, like the ying/yang idea in oriental cooking e.g. Cucumber/Chilli or something.

Is digestion/absorption/metabolism of raw fat different again from cooked fat? It feels as though the fat is going around in my blood but just hogging space and effort but not actually providing any energy... *shrug*

If I don't eat fruit, you guys think I should still eat raw vegetables? Would that include stuff like carrots/cabbage, or just leafy stuff like lettuce and.. well, leaves. You mentioned curing inflammation with charcoal.. won't it gradually go now anyway? It has seemed to be disappearing now, gradually. Will that charcoal just speed things up, or would I be left over with some if I don't do it? Isn't Dripping(like beef-dripping) Cooked?

Isn't raw-honey is high-fructose? I thought fructose(or maybe sugar or even carbs in general) was mainly what caused my inflammation?



When you said 'you'll have so much energy from the raw meat you wont notice it' what do you mean?

& Why would butter be good? Is that only if my meat didn't have enough fat?

[A lot of points/questions I know, but...]

When you say about damaging your heart, is that because you naturally need a larger/stronger heart & lung/ cardiovascular system to handle fat-metabolism efficiently without carbs?

[Raw Kyle]

I probably eat about 1.5-2 lbs of raw muscle meat and suet every day when I'm being good.

[aunaturale]

For me it was a few weeks. At first I cut back on carbs significantly and became extremely uncomfortable (within days) so I went back to several servings of fruit a day and phased out more slowly (within a few weeks).

I still eat some fruit but maintain trace ketones, which I'm comfortable with.  

I agree, dont rush into this diet. The body, in my case, may not have the ability
to deal with ZC for some period of time. Being raised by a Mexican mother
Ive seen my fair share of tortillas y frijoles for the past 21 years

thanks for the heads up 'Living'

[aunaturale]

I probably eat about 1.5-2 lbs of raw muscle meat and suet every day when I'm being good.

Kyle, how many pounds of suet are you throwin' back everyday?

[Raw Kyle]

Kyle, how many pounds of suet are you throwin' back everyday?

I apologize that I don't measure it by weight, but rather by eyeballing it. I cut up suet and lean meat into bite sized pieces, and try to get a little more pieces of lean meat than suet. I end up eating somewhere between 1 and 2 packages of lean meat per day, which usually come in at around 1lb. Suet weighs quite a bit less than lean meat because of less water, so I would say between 1/4lb and 1/2lb.

[aunaturale]

I apologize that I don't measure it by weight, but rather by eyeballing it. I cut up suet and lean meat into bite sized pieces, and try to get a little more pieces of lean meat than suet. I end up eating somewhere between 1 and 2 packages of lean meat per day, which usually come in at around 1lb. Suet weighs quite a bit less than lean meat because of less water, so I would say between 1/4lb and 1/2lb.

Reasonable, Im trying to figure out if anyone has approached a 1:1 ratio or attempted a
2:1 fat-to-protein diet.

Is your goal to maintain your weight, lose or gain?

[Raw Kyle]

Reasonable, Im trying to figure out if anyone has approached a 1:1 ratio or attempted a
2:1 fat-to-protein diet.

Is your goal to maintain your weight, lose or gain?

I want to maintain my weight. I would be ok gaining a little bit, I do not want to lose any weight. I can maintain my weight pretty well on this diet, with or without exercise. On vegetarian diets I was always stuffing myself and lifting weights to try and maintain/build muscle.

[djr_81]

Reasonable, Im trying to figure out if anyone has approached a 1:1 ratio or attempted a
2:1 fat-to-protein diet.

I have occasionally approached a 2:1 ratio when running low on meat. It's very hard for my body to make enough bile to deal with all of that fat. I really don't recommend it.

[djr_81]

Since eating raw meat and no fruit(don't know if it's because the fat is raw, because I don't have sugar, or both), having much fat has made me feel really sluggish...

You're not keto-adapted so can't efficiently run on fat but have cut out the carbohydrates which your body currently uses as it's main energy source.
It's your call how you want to eat paleo. You can go full carnivore and keto-adapt or you can continue eating an omnivorous diet like you are at the moment but adding a bit more fat as it still seems you're somewhat deficient.

If I don't eat fruit, you guys think I should still eat raw vegetables? Would that include stuff like carrots/cabbage, or just leafy stuff like lettuce and.. well, leaves. You mentioned curing inflammation with charcoal.. won't it gradually go now anyway? It has seemed to be disappearing now, gradually. Will that charcoal just speed things up, or would I be left over with some if I don't do it? Isn't Dripping(like beef-dripping) Cooked?

If you want to eat an omnivorous diet you might as well stick to fruits IMO. They're more hydrating as you noted.

Isn't raw-honey is high-fructose? I thought fructose(or maybe sugar or even carbs in general) was mainly what caused my inflammation?

We've had discussions on it before. AV advocates it but I'm of the mindset that what you can buy is almost as bad as table sugar. If you could get fresh grubcomb it'd make a nice treat on a rare occasion but shouldn't be consumed frequently.

[A lot of points/questions I know, but...]
When you say about damaging your heart, is that because you naturally need a larger/stronger heart & lung/ cardiovascular system to handle fat-metabolism efficiently without carbs?

I'm not sure what the fear is other than low energy. I continued running and biking as I transitioned and while my performance was hampered some I felt no additional body stresses.

[roony]

About 3 to 6 months, but as long you detox correctly, ie eat green salads & plenty of raw butter & cream, even less a cple of weeks or so, but you'll have so much energy from the raw meat you wont notice it

It's also crucial you exercise & aerate your body at this stage, ie light exercise no longer then 15 minutes, as strenous exercise longer then 15 or 20 minutes can damage your heart

I also forgot to add, adding organs as early as possible is CRUCIAL to helping your body adapt to using fats, as a liver or kidneys, has MASSIVE amounts of regenerative enzymes & bacteria, in fact you'll crave organs after you try them, theyre that nutritious

It's alot easier to start with organs & fatty cheap cuts, like breast of lamb, then it is to start with expensive steaks & sirloin.

In fact i dont recommend ppl eat steaks & sirloins, as theyre nowhere near as nutritious as a brisket or tougher cuts. The low amount of fat to protein ratio is a killer on the body.


You ONLY become ketogenic if you DONT include organs ... its that simple

[roony]

You're not keto-adapted so can't efficiently run on fat but have cut out the carbohydrates which your body currently uses as it's main energy source.
It's your call how you want to eat paleo. You can go full carnivore and keto-adapt or you can continue eating an omnivorous diet like you are at the moment but adding a bit more fat as it still seems you're somewhat deficient.
If you want to eat an omnivorous diet you might as well stick to fruits IMO. They're more hydrating as you noted.
We've had discussions on it before. AV advocates it but I'm of the mindset that what you can buy is almost as bad as table sugar. If you could get fresh grubcomb it'd make a nice treat on a rare occasion but shouldn't be consumed frequently.
I'm not sure what the fear is other than low energy. I continued running and biking as I transitioned and while my performance was hampered some I felt no additional body stresses.

Grubcomb, do you mean the comb honey, or the actual frame with sections of the hive still attached?

[djr_81]

Grubcomb, do you mean the comb honey, or the actual frame with sections of the hive still attached?

The latter.
I have no firsthand experience with it but the debate in a thread we had on honey swayed me to think it'd be a useful, albeit a very seldom, addition to a mixed diet. If you're interested read through the thread.

[roony]

I googled it, its bee larvae wrapped in bee nutrition, like honey & pollen & propolis, tastes like eggs ... lol

[miles]

I had heart, but the fat in it did not taste great. I had liver, but I didn't manage very much of it. It didn't disgust me; I just didn't feel like I should have much of it.

What does it really mean to be ketogenic? It it really a good thing? If eating organs stops you from becoming so, and I would think it was more natural to eat the organs, then wouldn't it be better to do so? Is Ketogenic just what you must be to utilise fat without also having sugar? If you have sugar does that work a long side the fat and it's different? Should I actually be making an effort to have carbs, but have them from animal sources instead of plant? Since it is Glycogen in liver will that not cause inflammation, or is it actually a good thing to avoid them and just be 'ketogenic'? Roony mentioned Kidneys, what carbs are in there?

So far, since stopping with fruit and eating raw meat, I've been a lot stronger, and less inflammation/pain which is part of the strength. However, I've felt like I've had very little energy. In training, I haven't necessarily been tested in a cardiovascular sense, but I've just become very.. well energy-less(well no active/useful energy anyway).. and a bit dizzy. So I'm strong, but don't have the active energy to use my strength...

In contrast, in the past, if I've had fruit(carbs) but little protein/fat I'd be the opposite. I'd be jittery and full of active energy but I'd be too weak, and inflammatory to actually use my energy.

Please can I get lots of good responses and opinions as it's really rather important to me... thanks.

If you think I'd get much better response with a new thread, please say and I'll make one...


P.S. When I've eaten meat that's a bit old/past use-by, I've been fine, until I've exerted myself and then I've felt very uncomfortable in my gut. I guess that's because I have so little energy anyway and there's not enough left to control the off-food and it goes wild? That's also extremely inconvenient...

[PaleoPhil]

Grubcomb, do you mean the comb honey, or the actual frame with sections of the hive still attached?

Grubcomb is like honey comb, except instead of honey being stored in the cells as food for the hive, there are grubs in them. The grubs are reportedly rich in healthy fat, as are some other insects like termites. When people talk about insects being healthy they tend to think it's protein that makes them healthy when the nutritious fat is more valuable in the wild and is apparently the primary thing in hives that honey bears are after.