I simply dont understand salmonella and e coli

[kurite]

Okay i dont get it i really want to start eating raw meat but i dont understand how and why no one here is infected by this bacteria. If its not raw meat that causes this then what truly does? Also does it lesten the chance of getting this bacteria if i buy grass fed beef from a supermarket?
thanks

[goodsamaritan]

maybe it is because I expose my meats to the outside air?
I have the notion that if it is exposed it gets good bacteria.
That if the meat is wrapped in plastic and cannot breath it gets bad bacteria.

Been 2 years and I also feed my kids raw meat at times because if I havent been sick then it must mean it is safe for them.

my raw meat is always freshly killed / caught. stays in the ref up to 2 weeks.

[William]

Okay i dont get it i really want to start eating raw meat but i dont understand how and why no one here is infected by this bacteria.

We are all infected by these bacteria. So are you, if you are in reasonable health.
Pasteur's germ theory of disease is dead, but won't lie down because it lives on in the minds of the innocent like yourself.
Germs are harmless until we feed them something nasty, so we don't feed them nasty things.


We just don't worry about it.

[TylerDurden]

It's the environment not the pathogen that's the problem, which is why in food-poisoning, cases, canned goods undercooked foods and aged processed foods are far more likely to cause such poisoning than raw healthy foods. Also, I should add that when one looks at food-poisoning stats one invariably find that the people who die from such have already become very ill from diabetes type 2, heart-disease etc. all from cooked junk-food diets - if they'd been on healthy diets their immune-systems etc. would be stronger so could easily shrug off any bacterial presence.

[chucky]

maybe it is because I expose my meats to the outside air?
I have the notion that if it is exposed it gets good bacteria.
That if the meat is wrapped in plastic and cannot breath it gets bad bacteria.

Been 2 years and I also feed my kids raw meat at times because if I havent been sick then it must mean it is safe for them.

my raw meat is always freshly killed / caught. stays in the ref up to 2 weeks.

Friday I bought my beef that was packed 15th. It has been in closed box. Is it safe to eat it on Mondays morning ?

[Sitting Coyote]

There are many varieties of both salmonella and e coli, and only a few become pathogenic.  I happen to have caught one of the pathogenic varieties of salmonella from eating raw chicken (pasture raised, no crowding, cleanly butchered) last weekend, and it's miserable.  It's slowly starting to get better, though.

I have far above average health generally and am in excellent physical condition, so the fact that I've gotten salmonella isn't because I'm old, weak or my immune system is dysfunctional.  I can't agree with William's statement that "the germ theory of disease is dead".  It's sure alive in me right now.  I've long eaten >50% raw foods and have been 100% raw, including raw meats, for the last three weeks. 

There are certain types of bacteria that are simply more potent than others, and if you get them inside you, well, you'll suffer to get them out.

[TylerDurden]

Genuinely pasture-raised, not fed mostly on grains? If so, I'm really surprised as  such issues are so rarely reported in the RVAF world. The worst I ever had was vomiting in the early stages of going rawpalaeo and then only if I consumed too much of something I had not gotten used to the taste of(such as high-meat or raw liver, not to do with food-poisoning as such. The only stomach-pains I got from raw foods were from raw coconut oil and raw dairy, or just eating too much and getting too full a stomach.

[Sitting Coyote]

Yes, genuinely pasture raised.  I've visited the farm and have seen the chickens out to pasture, they're not even allowed to share pasture with other animals (the farm also raises a few pigs and some cows).  The farmer doesn't buy any grains at all as feed.

[alphagruis]

There are many varieties of both salmonella and e coli, and only a few become pathogenic.  I happen to have caught one of the pathogenic varieties of salmonella from eating raw chicken (pasture raised, no crowding, cleanly butchered) last weekend, and it's miserable.  It's slowly starting to get better, though.

I have far above average health generally and am in excellent physical condition, so the fact that I've gotten salmonella isn't because I'm old, weak or my immune system is dysfunctional.  I can't agree with William's statement that "the germ theory of disease is dead".  It's sure alive in me right now.  I've long eaten >50% raw foods and have been 100% raw, including raw meats, for the last three weeks.  

There are certain types of bacteria that are simply more potent than others, and if you get them inside you, well, you'll suffer to get them out.

IMO you cannot safely conclude that from your unfortunate experiment. It takes usually much more than 3 weaks on 100% raw paleo to no longer experiment any adverse effects with any raw food you've never eaten before . The germ theory of disease is dead but only once we've been on essentially 100% raw paleo for a while. This is because bacteria can feed on heat generated or neolithic food toxins. As long as there are still too much of them in our organism some bacteria strains may proliferate and result in more or less violent infection symptoms.

On SAD bacteria are indeed dangerous because the organism, in particular upon aging, accumulates a large quantity of the toxins bacteria are capable to feed on.

A rule of thumb that works to make this transition as "smooth" as possible is to eat only the stuff if it smells and tastes attractive. Sometimes drying the meat a little bit changes from repulsive to attractive. If this still doesn't help try other food and come back to this one only latter on. After a few months you can force a bit with much less risks.  

[RawZi]

Yes, genuinely pasture raised.  I've visited the farm and have seen the chickens out to pasture, they're not even allowed to share pasture with other animals (the farm also raises a few pigs and some cows).  The farmer doesn't buy any grains at all as feed.

    What all were you eating before the salmonella chicken?  Could be the salmonella detoxed you from previous residues.  Or could be the chicken, well your body's infinite wisdom thought sometimg like: "oh good!  I'm going to get real food from now on!", when it got the chicken, so started throwing out all the old tissue.

    The first month I did RAF, I was on the toilet very frequently.  I'm not complaining at all.  My body was absolutely replacing my unhealthy tissues with healthy strong like never before.

    How did you eat the chicken?  Did you marinate it with any kind of vinegar or lemon or other sour things?  Was it packed in plastic or chlorine bleached paper?  Had it ever been salted? Did you drink anything during the meal?   Did you add any spices or herbs?  Spices can offset a balance of microorganisms in raw.   Maybe if you explain processes you put it through that we might not be aware of, that would give more clues to possible solutions.  Example: I get violently ill from a few spoons of a simple green smoothie and have gotten sick from a simple salad during RVAF.  My digestive bacteria was prepared for other things, not raw veg foods/fiber.  

    I have tried factory farm lean meat raw, I didn't even get sick from that, but I added raw never been frozen grass grazed fat, unheated honey, and the meat had never been frozen, never left out drying etc at all ...

[RawZi]

Friday I bought my beef that was packed 15th. It has been in closed box. Is it safe to eat it on Mondays morning ?

    Is this a box shipped to you with ice packs in it?  Is there anything keeping the meat cool in any way?

    I would recommend to open it and look at it and smell it before you taste then eat it.  Using senses helps most, when the senses are developed or allowed to develop.

[Hannibal]

There are many varieties of both salmonella and e coli, and only a few become pathogenic.  I happen to have caught one of the pathogenic varieties of salmonella from eating raw chicken (pasture raised, no crowding, cleanly butchered) last weekend, and it's miserable.  It's slowly starting to get better, though.

It's detoxificaton process and it's usually not comfortable.
You've got to go through this detox in a healthy way and you'll benefit from that.

[Neone]

its probably your first exposure to the evil salmaneloas, and the first time you build your immunity up. I imagine you will not be bothered by chicken again.

[aunaturale]

its probably your first exposure to the evil salmaneloas, and the first time you build your immunity up. I imagine you will not be bothered by chicken again.

RIGHT ON Neone!!

[RawZi]

its probably your first exposure to the evil salmaneloas, and the first time you build your immunity up. I imagine you will not be bothered by chicken again.

    I used to kiss lizards on their foreheads.  I was told I would get salmonella by doing that.  It never got me sick.  Maybe I built up a tolerance by doing that.  Maybe that's why I never got a detox reaction when I finally started eating raw chicken.  My aunt took frozen factory chicken out her freezer and served it to me, once I had already eaten raw chicken for a while.  To make her happy, I ate it (just plain).  It didn't seem to harm me at all.  I won't do it again though.  Maybe salmonella is something I'm just naturally immune to.  When I was a kid I did throw raw eggs (factory farmed) in the shakes I drank, no problem to my health there either.  I did it cause it felt good and nutritious.  I did not know factory farming existed then. 

    To eat cooked chicken no matter how naturally it lived or how properly cooked makes me detox.  The smell alone even makes me nauseous.  I don't understand.  I never disliked chicken in any way shape or form before I stopped eating it thirty-some-odd years ago (for ethical reasons as I thought you can't trust humans on commercial chicken sales).   

[kurite]

Only 1 in 30000 eggs contain salmonella and a high percentage of the ones that are infected are not pasture raised or organic.