Author Topic: I just thought I'd say hello ...  (Read 46109 times)

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Offline Stig of the Dump

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I just thought I'd say hello ...
« on: January 20, 2010, 01:32:08 am »
Hello everyone.  I'm had a sea change in my diet in the last few weeks - all driven from within.

And now one of those jolts of recognition in the last few days about Paleo, and now Raw Paleo.  (I've had a long history of alternative and spiritual diets, but I even bore myself to think about it, so I won't go there for now.)

I just ate three raw lamb chops from a supermarket, and they tasted great.  (My heroic avatar is more a target than current reality.  :-D)

Not sure how much I'll post - I want to read a lot at the moment rather than talk.  But thanks for the great site.

Offline van

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 03:02:11 am »
Hi,  no real need to post here, but of course if you want to we always like to hear how things go when anyone transitions to raw.  Lots of info here, especially lately, seems we are all pretty active.  Questions are always answered.  Thanks for saying hi.

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 03:29:03 am »
Thanks van.  (I'm sure I won't be able to resist piping up if I get drawn in.)

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 04:04:56 am »
One quick technical forum question for anyone that knows the answer.  My e-mail address is being given out when I look myself up as a member online.  (Some members show e-mails; some don't.  I have the "Hide e-mail address from public" box ticked of the "Account related settings" section of the "Profile", but I am showing an e-mail anyway.)

I don't really want my personal e-mail address given out on the web, so for now I've changed it to a throwaway anti-spam e-mail.  Does anyone know how to hide the e-mail address (so I can return it my real address), as I can't find the correct setting?

djr_81

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 04:13:01 am »
Your email is listed as "hidden" when I click on your profile. I believe it shows at all times when you view your own profile.

Edit: And welcome to the forum. ;)

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 04:17:27 am »
Thanks - I worry about those sort of things too much  (I think I have post traumatic spam disorder.)

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 09:37:00 pm »
Van said you like to hear changeover stories, and I do have few questions, so I thought I would write.

(I seem to be on an information overload at the moment, having just read the http://www.fast-5.com/ and http://www.warriordiet.com/ websites.  Anyway, the upshot is that today I am waiting until 5pm to eat.)

Just to give a bit of background, I have been seven years cooked vegan in the distant past, then a wide variety of "doing what I liked", long extended fasts, and half-hearted attempts at raw vegan and fruitarian.

Basically I found the long fasts really cleaned me out and rejuvenated me (I'm 45 but look very young, vibrant and healthy - strangers always refer to me in the 3rd person as 'that young man'), but whenever I tried to follow it up with a long-term plan of eating 100% RV/fruitarian, it quickly came to nothing, and I started joining in normal food again whenever socially possible.

I got into a cycle of eating pretty much RV and mini-fasts in the week, and then any old crud (plus drinking) at the weekends.  I knew it was unhealthy, but the raw veg/fruit was just too idealistic, and more than the anti-social side of it, it just left me unsatisfied.

I stopped drinking (I haven't missed it - part of why I wanted to stop was hating the taste) and found a paleo book a few weeks back and went on to cooked paleo - meat, veg and fruit.  This tasted great and was very satisfying - I cut out all the junk, even socially, bar the odd micro-slip.

(I had been pretty much 'veggie' and had always believed the old Natural Hygiene arguments about us sharing so many bodily characteristics with chimps and orangutans, that we must be fruitarians.  Suddenly a new part of my brain lit up.  What makes us different from chimps and orangutans?  Think of our graceful, athletic, high speed bodies, our throwing abilities, our ability to work in groups hunting and fighting, how wonderfully people can craft tools, can throw javelins, stones, and think of that shadow thrill of ganging up on something and defeating it, even exulting in cruelty/victory, that we all feel (even as horror of it), but civilisation hates to acknowledge, and suddenly I knew, of course, our difference is that we are tool-using, predator apes - meat eaters.)

But I started to notice I would get the sweats after meals.  I remembered a raw food term:  leukocytosis - the body's white cell reaction to cooked food.  It suddenly struck me that I couldn't square cooked paleo with what I knew.  I looked up raw paleo - and that's why I'm here.

Anyway, that bit of background already makes this post too long.  But I have some questions about what's happening to me in my changeover:

Last night I ate some raw venison steaks from a supermarket (they tasted fantastic - no worries there), with a tomato and some lettuce and a couple of mushrooms, all raw.  Then I ate some (defrosted) frozen wild, dark red mixed berries.  Pretty quickly I got a bit of indigestion, had a few bowel movements and felt queasy and still feel queasy today (unusual for me).  I also felt that fatty taste of meat in my mouth, and couldn't really sleep well (also unusual).  My nose became blocked, and still is pretty stuffy.  (But of course, no sweats.)

In the morning I had many more bowel movements and a pinkish hue to my urine.  I don't feel like I want to eat meat tonight.

I'm not sure I'm ready for the 100% meat option some on here seem to use - I still like my fruits/berries, nuts, and I sort of crave veg (but only when it's cooked).

How do you go about combining raw meat with other foods?  On different days?  Or what does everyone think of another book about timing food ("The Evolution Diet") which suggests paleo man grazed on nuts, berries and leaves whilst hunting, then had one big protein feast/blow-out at the end of the day?

It's early days for me - I'm not active enough yet either - just walking an hour or two every day - and that has to change too (strenuous activity didn't chime too well with fruit and fasting).  Undoubtedly this is just normal disequilibria/detox, but any comments, questions or feedback would be most welcome.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 09:52:19 pm by Stig of the Dump »

Offline livingthelife

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 10:08:03 pm »
I also ate lots of fruits & veg, nearly vegetarian, also broke into sweats after eating (which gradually increased to every few hours as blood sugar regulation went haywire)

Also had digestive problems transitioning to a fatty protein based diet, including frequent bowel movements (I attribute to poor digestion/assimilation of fat & protein)

Pink urine seems concerning, maybe you ate too much protein right away? Stressed your kidneys?

Go slow. It's taken me about a year to transition (not counting the few months I just coasted)

Welcome and best wishes

William

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 10:47:02 pm »


I stopped drinking (I haven't missed it - part of why I wanted to stop was hating the taste) and found a paleo book a few weeks back and went on to cooked paleo - meat, veg and fruit.

None of the veg and fruit available are paleo, raw or cooked.
You probably found the Cordain diet, he calls it paleolithic but he is a troll.

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2010, 11:24:43 pm »
Thanks livingthelife, I will take it slow.  It is very useful to know that the bowel movement problem (which is new to me) might be related to fat absorbtion/assimilation, and that it is probably transitional.  (I'm hopeful that the pink urine (only faintly pink, but visible on tissue paper) was just all the red fruit and maybe the fact that I ate a couple of beetroot the day before, although I've never had it before.  I even wondered if it was the vension which was incredibly dark red?)

William, the book I got first was "Human Evolution Diet and Health:  The Case for Palaeolithic Nutition" by Mark Hines, but I had barely begun it before I changed my diet, and haven't got more than about 20 pages into it.  Then I read this web primer http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html which was very clear, although not raw.  (I have indeed bought the Cordain book with a bunch of others, but I always take everything with a pinch of salt.  I always find useful nuggets in the most ridiculous books, if I feel intuitively motivated to read them.)

Did you mean there are no remaining similar paleolithic fruit and veg, or that paleolithic people never ate them?

If the first, I know what you mean.  I suppose it's even true of animals.  (Although I suppose at least pheasants, rabbits and deer, etc. are pretty similar to those we would have hunted in the past, even if cows and sheep might be the equivalent of big yellow bananas and an iceberg lettuce.)

As to how much wild fruit and veg cavemen ate, I'm open to persuasion.  I have lots to learn.  I know personally I really enjoy wild blackberries and hazelnuts, but as to veg, although I love it cooked, there has never been a dark green leaf I have ever wanted to chew raw.  (But I guess dogs chew grass, so maybe the urge will come naturally if it's necessary.)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 11:40:30 pm by Stig of the Dump »

Offline livingthelife

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 11:40:32 pm »
beetroot

That very well could be the cause

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 11:49:00 pm »
 :D That's what you call a glaring omission in my previous post - but it was long enough already!

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 12:06:24 am »
Great to see more UKers here on rawpaleoforum!
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 12:11:28 am »
 ;D

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 12:24:03 am »
Incidentally, many RVAFers find raw nuts and raw mushrooms increasingly unappealing re issues re digestion/antinutrients. Best to avoid them entirely, IMO.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2010, 12:28:55 am »
Thanks - I've thought of that with nuts.  It's basically something that 'wants' to be a tree and doesn't want to be eaten - it can't run away so being inedible seems the obvious choice.  (Mushrooms of course just want to be themselves.  :lol:)

William

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2010, 03:40:38 am »

William, the book I got first was "Human Evolution Diet and Health:  The Case for Palaeolithic Nutition" by Mark Hines, but I had barely begun it before I changed my diet, and haven't got more than about 20 pages into it.  Then I read this web primer http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html which was very clear, although not raw.  (I have indeed bought the Cordain book with a bunch of others, but I always take everything with a pinch of salt.  I always find useful nuggets in the most ridiculous books, if I feel intuitively motivated to read them.)

That's how I read, and with the same result.

Quote
Did you mean there are no remaining similar paleolithic fruit and veg, or that paleolithic people never ate them?

Paleolithic people never ate them. One of our members tried, and found them inedible - probably loaded with anti-nutrients. I've eaten chokecherries, which are supposed to be a paleo fruit, and enjoyed a few, but nobody would consider them food, or even part of a meal.


Quote
As to how much wild fruit and veg cavemen ate, I'm open to persuasion.  I have lots to learn.  I know personally I really enjoy wild blackberries and hazelnuts, but as to veg, although I love it cooked, there has never been a dark green leaf I have ever wanted to chew raw.  (But I guess dogs chew grass, so maybe the urge will come naturally if it's necessary.)

None, according to the comparative analysis of the bones of paleoman and wild African lions. They are chemically identical, and we know what lions eat.
Wild blueberries are supposed to be paleo, and I have ~10 pounds in my freezer and no urge to eat them. That must mean that I've escaped the carbohydrate addiction.


Please keep in mind when you read this forum that many of the members (and at least one moderator) are addicts; some know it, some are in denial. Their posts reflect this.



Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2010, 03:50:09 am »
I have yet to find what paleolithic fruits really are or where they were. I'm also very curious to find out what fruits paleo man ate. Aren't a good number of ape species frugivores? There must be plenty of high calorie fruits in the jungle that are edible. I think the jackfruit is one but surely there are others. Maybe paleo man ate these?

Outside of berries, are there any fruits of today that were found in paleo times? Todays fruits have no where near the same nutrient composition as paleo fruits. But the meat of today is probably similarly composed to how it was back then. I'd guess berries have probably been modified as well.

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2010, 04:36:24 am »
None, according to the comparative analysis of the bones of paleoman and wild African lions. They are chemically identical, and we know what lions eat.
That is a very interesting fact.
Quote
Wild blueberries are supposed to be paleo, and I have ~10 pounds in my freezer and no urge to eat them. That must mean that I've escaped the carbohydrate addiction.

Please keep in mind when you read this forum that many of the members (and at least one moderator) are addicts; some know it, some are in denial. Their posts reflect this.
I'm new and innocent of all adult struggle.  ;D

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2010, 04:40:59 am »
Outside of berries, are there any fruits of today that were found in paleo times? Todays fruits have no where near the same nutrient composition as paleo fruits. But the meat of today is probably similarly composed to how it was back then. I'd guess berries have probably been modified as well.
Blackberries (bramble bushes in the UK) are generally considered a weed nowadays, apart from cultivated varieties.  I can't imagine they have been tampered with since pre-Roman times, and before that we were in grass skirts covered in blue wode according to my Latin teacher, but perhaps people deliberately used to spread the seed (and select tastier ones to do so).  Even so, any place you would spread it to would be an impenetrable, fruitless bramble patch for most of the year.

Offline livingthelife

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2010, 10:00:22 am »
Please keep in mind when you read this forum that many of the members (and at least one moderator) are addicts; some know it, some are in denial. Their posts reflect this.

carb addicts?

Offline Ioanna

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2010, 10:16:16 am »
Hi! and Welcome!

Did the pinkish hue to your urine go away??  That's concerning!


djr_81

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2010, 10:25:25 am »
The pink hue was almost definitely as a result of the beets. I don't recall what the trigger is but they cause some people to get a reddish/pinkish tint to the urine and some get it in the stool. Maybe your body is handling them differently now. :)

William

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2010, 12:43:37 pm »

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: I just thought I'd say hello ...
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2010, 02:53:20 pm »
Hi! and Welcome!

Did the pinkish hue to your urine go away??  That's concerning!


I think so - yes, I just tested it on a bit of paper.  (I thought it might be all the red food - I'm very healthy generally, so it surprised me to see it.)  I've never had kidney problems, but during a very long fast I did in Hawaii, my kidney threw off casts (a sign of improving kidney health in such circumstances.)

I feel much better - I had raw beef last night - lovely stuff.  (I can't post more now as I have to go out to London all day.  Bye.)

 

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