I just thought I'd say hello ...

[TylerDurden]

Well, I passed that test 100%. Interesting points raised on that site:-

" What bothers colorblind people most?
- When grilling a piece of meat, a red deficient individual cannot tell whether it is raw or well done. Many cannot tell the difference between green and ripe tomatoes or between ketchup and chocolate syrup! Many others are always buying and biting into unripe bananas - they cannot tell if they are yellow or green, and the matt, natural material makes it even harder to distinguish.
- Some food may look definitely disgusting to color vision deficient individuals: a plate full of spinach, for instance, just appears to them like cow pat.
- They can however distinguish some citrus fruits. Oranges seem to be of a brighter yellow than that of lemons.
- A colorblind person is generally unable to interpret the chemical testing kits for swimming pool water, test strips for hard water, soil or water pH tests because they rely on subtle color differences.
- Many colorblind people cannot tell whether a woman is wearing lipstick or not. More difficult to handle for some is the inability to make the difference between a blue-eyed blonde and a green-eyed redhead.
- Color vision deficiencies bother affected children from the earliest years. At school, coloring can become a difficulty when one has to take the blue crayon - and not the pink one - to color the ocean.
- Bi-color and tri-color LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes): is that glowing indicator light red, yellow, or green? Same problem with the traffic lights..."

The 1st one would cause a problem for raw-meat-eaters, I guess.

[Ioanna]

Phil, you've not seen a rainbow??  and how do you dream??  color is such a huge impact on the detailed images in my mind whether a dream, a recollection, or perception of nature... along with food.  do you notice any other sense(s) have over-compensated?

[PaleoPhil]

Well, I passed that test 100%. Interesting points raised on that site:-

" What bothers colorblind people most?
- When grilling a piece of meat, a red deficient individual cannot tell whether it is raw or well done. Many cannot tell the difference between green and ripe tomatoes or between ketchup and chocolate syrup! Many others are always buying and biting into unripe bananas - they cannot tell if they are yellow or green, and the matt, natural material makes it even harder to distinguish.
...

The 1st one would cause a problem for raw-meat-eaters, I guess.

Cooking red meat causes a problem for me, because it's hard to tell when to stop cooking once I've started (I can't see a red or pink center very well). But if I don't cook at all, it poses no problem whatsoever. So giving up cooking and simply eating raw meat actually makes life easier for red-green colorblind people like me. With raw meat you don't have to worry at all about what color to cook it to.

Phil, you've not seen a rainbow??  and how do you dream??  color is such a huge impact on the detailed images in my mind whether a dream, a recollection, or perception of nature... along with food.  do you notice any other sense(s) have over-compensated?

Color-deficient would actually be a more accurate term than colorblind. I can see a rainbow, it's just not as brilliant or colorful as it is for people with color-enhanced vision. It's kind of neat to learn that my vision is luminosity-enhanced, though. I wasn't aware of that, though that's part of the way I determine whether the light is red at the stoplight (it's brighter when lit--though I can detect the colors a bit and I also know the locations). I wonder if my vision is movement-enhanced too. Movement-vision would be more important to a hunter than color vision.

The more I think about it, the more the hunter-adaptation explanation for colorblindness makes sense, more so than the genetic defect through antigenic diet explanation. Is anyone else here colorblind and, if so, what type of diet do you do best on, plant-based or flesh-based?

[goodsamaritan]

All this is interesting.  Maybe open a color blind thread?
We're hijacking the newbie's thread.

[PaleoPhil]

OK, I created this new thread - http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/does-color-blindness-suggest-a-hunter-past - because there seems to be much more to color blindness than I ever realized. It's a pretty fascinating topic that may produce additional knowledge about raw Paleolithic nutrition.

[Stig of the Dump]

All this is interesting.  Maybe open a color blind thread?
We're hijacking the newbie's thread.

You are a goodsamaritan, goodsamaritan.  :-D  To be honest though, I'm kind of thrilled that my first thread should have unlocked such interesting ideas and input from people.

Plus, there's not much of interest to report.  I spent the weekend with a lot of people, and although I did well compared to my usual "weekend madness", I did eat a couple of what the world would describe as "balanced" meals.  I must be getting more sensitive because both gave me intense and sometimes painful stomach activity.  (I also had a beer on Friday night, which tasted horrible, and only reinforced my decision to give up drink, so was no problem.)

Today I had a salad/light poached egg to help the junk clear out, and tonight I'll try a salad at 5pm, then a few hours later a mono meal of raw "something".  (I haven't decided yet - it's my first visit to the posh local butcher and fishmongers later.)  Then tomorrow back on with my attempt to fast 'til 5pm, then a carb snack, then a raw meat/fish mono-meal later, with lots of exercise in the day.

(I have a new stimulus to perfect my diet - I'm sorting out my teeth and I want the best nourishment for the teeth/gums possible.)

[Stig of the Dump]

I got to the butchers and it was shut!

When I got to the supermarket, all thought of carbs flew from my mind and I just bought a big leg of NZ lamb (likely fed on grass, I think).  Just seeing it, my mouth started salivating.  I bought a bit of kale, as some sort of veggie token, but I think I'm converted.  Something in me is desperate for more meat now it's got a taste for it.

[Stig of the Dump]

I am starting the week afresh with a great deal of commitment today.

For a few weeks I am going to experiment with a 100% RAF diet, and see how it affects me.  I am fasting until 5pm every day, then a raw grass fed or wild meat and fat meal, and nothing else.

(I'm getting some Vivo barefoot running shoes today (until I'm brave/hardy enough to go truly barefoot).  I have been very inspired by reading a book someone recommended on here 'Born to Run'.  (Thanks to whoever it was - stupendous book.)  I think that's going to be my main exercise.  I'm also going to read 'The loneliness of the long distance runner' by Alan Sillitoe.)

One last question.  How much fat should I be eating, measured by eye?  (Calories and weight aren't clear to me - but, say, 'one part fat to three parts lean' I will have no difficulty understanding.)

[djr_81]

One part fat to three parts meat sounds about right.

[Stig of the Dump]

One part fat to three parts meat sounds about right.

Thanks djr_81. (I must have read it somewhere on here and tucked it away unconsciously.)

I was inspired to try 100% RAF because of a discussion I read on another forum where someone pointed out that, excluding cultivated fruit and veg, if you just set out into your local woods today, what plants would you eat - if the alternative was a juicy deer steak?

I live right by the Downs, and often walk for hours in very wild overgrown countryside (for the UK).  I walked and walked this weekend, and, especially now, mid-Winter, I didn't see one plant I really wanted to eat.

Now admittedly, I'm only an armchair forager, but it inspired me.

(Maybe in Summer my natural blackberry eating as I walk along mid Summer will still happen.  I guess then it will be "right".)

[TylerDurden]

Thanks djr_81. (I must have read it somewhere on here and tucked it away unconsciously.)

I was inspired to try 100% RAF because of a discussion I read on another forum where someone pointed out that, excluding cultivated fruit and veg, if you just set out into your local woods today, what plants would you eat - if the alternative was a juicy deer steak?

I live right by the Downs, and often walk for hours in very wild overgrown countryside (for the UK).  I walked and walked this weekend, and, especially now, mid-Winter, I didn't see one plant I really wanted to eat.

Now admittedly, I'm only an armchair forager, but it inspired me.

(Maybe in Summer my natural blackberry eating as I walk along mid Summer will still happen.  I guess then it will be "right".)

  I used to think like that. However, I soon realised that what we view as wild countryside is actually heavily managed by humans either directly or indirectly, so that what we have nowadays has no resemblance to what was found in the Palaeolithic era. A good example are all those heather-clad hills in Scotland and Ireland which used to be full of ancient forests, now long since destroyed by humans.

In the case of the Inuit, they appear to have also eaten seaweed, frozen berries and the like, and not just in the summer.

[Stig of the Dump]

In the case of the Inuit, they appear to have also eaten seaweed, frozen berries and the like, and not just in the summer.

Thanks Tyler.  I do often walk besides the sea, and I have experimentally eaten seaweed once.  It was nice.

(Actually, there are some really wild beaches further up the coast.  Do you know, is it legal to just go and eat shellfish?)

I have also eaten lamb's lettuce, sea cabbage, fresh hawthorn leaves and berries, fresh nettles and something else I don't know the name of that has succulent leaves and grows on walls.  Maybe I'll go on a proper foraging course.

I walk though Natural Trust woods, with some big natural clearings overlooking the sea and I think the only management is to the paths, so it might be a bit more natural than most countryside.  (They also graze big strange cows with long hair and horns in the grazing/scrubland around them - I should find out where they go to be eaten!)

Anyway, I'll try the extreme meat route for a couple of weeks and see how I fare.

[TylerDurden]

Oh, I love scavenging for raw shellfish, though I do that in Italy, instead. I get raw sea urchin eggs and raw limpets, when I'm over there. Lovely stuff, especially the sea-urchin eggs.

Of course, the density of animal and plant-life, even in the relatively untouched areas is not comparable to palaeo times, given massive human destruction of the environment. Even the rocks near my italian beach, which used to harbour plenty of octopi now are completely empty of them, and I have noticed a considerable decline in the number of (egg-laying) female sea-urchins, but a plethora of males.

[Stig of the Dump]

Oh, I love scavenging for raw shellfish, though I do that in Italy, instead. I get raw sea urchin eggs and raw limpets, when I'm over there. Lovely stuff, especially the sea-urchin eggs.

Of course, the density of animal and plant-life, even in the relatively untouched areas is not comparable to palaeo times, given massive human destruction of the environment. Even the rocks near my italian beach, which used to harbour plenty of octopi now are completely empty of them, and I have noticed a considerable decline in the number of (egg-laying) female sea-urchins, but a plethora of males.

I once spoke with the brilliant futurist, Eric Drexler (the father of nanotechnology), and he told me his dream for future technology, industry and 'mass consumer' humanity was that eventually it would all move off Earth, and that the planet would revert to a huge Safari park (apart from a few cultural heritage sites, like Venice and Paris for tourists).  Any humans that wanted to live in the park would have to renounce technology beyond the Paleolithic.

Let's hope he gets to run the world.

[Stig of the Dump]

Another update.

Last week I tried to eat some raw sardines and herring.  I managed to eat them all, but afterwards I started reading and thinking about fish parasites, and came over all queasy.  Then I had explosive diarrhea, and stomach rumbles for a day or so.  Even thinking about raw fish/meat made me heave.

So I decided to drop RPD and eat "normal" balanced meals until everything calmed down.  (I've even eaten non-Paleo crap this weekend, like crisps and coke.)

Anyway, I'm ready to restart.

I've bought a beautiful piece of marbled steak from the posh butcher, with a lump of fat he cut off another steak and charged me for, to make it 3 parts lean to 1 part fat.  (I asked him what his cows ate, and he replied "cows eat grass, don't they?" with a twinkle and without a blink of hesitation.  He then told me they were "Angus" and certainly lived free range and organic on National Trust land, living on grass and hay as far as he knew.  I asked him if they were ever fed grains, and he said he didn't know for sure, but didn't see why that would be necessary - after all the grass is free!)

I'm going back on "fasting until 5" (http://www.fast-5.com/), then one big meal of raw meat.  (Some days, if I feel like it, I'll have a "cooked veg only" meal, until I'm sure I can survive on meat alone.)

[Stig of the Dump]

Also, for interest, I read in the Metro this morning that bananas are the oldest cultivated fruit at 8,000 years, and were introduced to the wider world by Alexander the Great.  By implication then, all cultivated fruit is non-Paleo, and our guts are not designed for it.  Fruit is neolithic food.

So I'm going to try to only eat fruit I can forage locally in season - like blackberries, gooseberries, redcurrants, wild strawberries, and anything else I find out about, and skip it the rest of the year.

[William]

Another update.

Last week I tried to eat some raw sardines and herring.  I managed to eat them all, but afterwards I started reading and thinking about fish parasites, and came over all queasy.  Then I had explosive diarrhea, and stomach rumbles for a day or so.  Even thinking about raw fish/meat made me heave.

From a long-ago post on the primal diet list - sardines are best eaten dried. IIRC he hung them in front of an ordinary fan, I don't know how long.

[Stig of the Dump]

Thanks for the tip William.  I'll certainly not be trying them (even dried) until they stop giving me the "dry heaves" just to look at! :lol:

[roony]

Thanks for the tip William.  I'll certainly not be trying them (even dried) until they stop giving me the "dry heaves" just to look at! :lol:

They were probably farmed, or at least not wild, wild sardines & herring, are hard to come by & expensive, after researching them ....

[Stig of the Dump]

They were expensive.  Certainly expensive looking - packed in ice, laid out under glass in a beautiful old worlde  shop with a fishmonger dressed the part with a striped apron and straw boater.  In the UK where I am, I'm pretty sure herring and sardines are fished wild out of the North Sea.  They are saltwater fish, and I don't think they are ever farmed here, although I might be wrong.

I'll ask the fishmonger.

[roony]

They were expensive.  Certainly expensive looking - packed in ice, laid out under glass in a beautiful old worlde  shop with a fishmonger dressed the part with a striped apron and straw boater.  In the UK where I am, I'm pretty sure herring and sardines are fished wild out of the North Sea.  They are saltwater fish, and I don't think they are ever farmed here, although I might be wrong.

I'll ask the fishmonger.

I'm in the u.k & i've never seen or heard of wild sardines, the odd herring, but theyre expensive

[Stig of the Dump]

I am buying the most expensive food available, so on that basis they would be wild.

Are there saltwater fish farms in the UK?  Doesn't the sea have to be very cold for these kinds of fish?  Wouldn't a farm in open sea around Scotland be wrecked by Winter storms, and effectively unmanable because of rough waters.  Isn't it just easier to have a boat and fish.

I've looked for sardine and herring farms on google in the UK and none come up - only farms where the farmer's name is Herring.  Yet there are lots of links about herring fishing with trawlers and the UK/Scottish herring fishing fleet.

I'm no expert roony, but I think you are wrong.

[roony]

I am buying the most expensive food available, so on that basis they would be wild.

Are there saltwater fish farms in the UK?  Doesn't the sea have to be very cold for these kinds of fish?  Wouldn't a farm in open sea around Scotland be wrecked by Winter storms, and effectively unmanable because of rough waters.  Isn't it just easier to have a boat and fish.

I've looked for sardine and herring farms on google in the UK and none come up - only farms where the farmer's name is Herring.  Yet there are lots of links about herring fishing with trawlers and the UK/Scottish herring fishing fleet.

I'm no expert roony, but I think you are wrong.

I said i've seen herring, gl finding wild sardine

Theres plenty of salmon farms in britain

[Stig of the Dump]

Next time I want to buy fish I will ask the fishmonger and find out for us.  (But that might be a long time off, as even the thought of it makes my stomach turnover.  The poor man might have lost a customer for life.  :lol:)

Yes, salmon is often farmed.  Maybe because they have a freshwater phase and it can easily be done in rivers and estuaries, but as I say I'm no expert.

[roony]

Next time I want to buy fish I will ask the fishmonger and find out for us.  (But that might be a long time off, as even the thought of it makes my stomach turnover.  The poor man might have lost a customer for life.  :lol:)

Yes, salmon is often farmed.  Maybe because they have a freshwater phase and it can easily be done in rivers and estuaries, but as I say I'm no expert.

lol, you have to be crafty with most fishmongers & farmers, they shoot farmed pheasants too ... I normally ask the origin & ask what they were fed