Which RawDiet is Most Oxygenating & Where's the Proof?

[roony]

Zero carb is about 80% fat by calories, varying on the state of the body.

Those who are eating a limited range of fatty muscle meats do at least as well in terms of health as anyone else.
Even those on cooked zero carb do well. See ZIOH, including the pemmican thread.

hi,
sorry but that claims been refuted by plenty of raw paleoists, who've tried subsisting on lean meats, even if theyre fatty, without organs, just doesnt work, lean fatty meats, are too monocultured in nutrition to give the broad spectrum of nutrition  your body needs to regenerate.

Liver has a MASSIVE amount of nutrients compared to lean fatty meats, trying to live on lean meats even with fats, is unhealthy because you drastically limit the range of nutrition you ingest, pointless diet.

I've tried living on fatty cuts of meats without organs & its almost impossible, the cravings & energy swings are nuts ...


As for a cooked zerocarb diet being healthy .... no comment lol

[Paleo Donk]

Roony,

There are literally hundreds of members on the ZIOH forum that eat almost nothing but cooked meat and water and are thriving so your claim about needing organs, at least in the short run, is not true for everyone. It is mostly documented in their "on you" section so you can read for yourself.

Perhaps deficiences will arise down the road but for now many people are doing very well. I too would suggest eating organs and trying other things as well as it makes more sense to me but their all muscle meat plan seems to be working. I'd also mention that I don't necessarily advocate their philosophy just that their way of eating does work.

Also to add, yes there are many people that will have problems with zero carb like yourself as it does not seem to work for everyone.

[William]

I've tried living on fatty cuts of meats without organs & its almost impossible, the cravings & energy swings are nuts ...

Cravings are caused by low fat.  Energy changes are inevitable when changing from sugar burning to fat burning - it takes time, from weeks to months, depending.

[roony]

Cravings are caused by low fat.  Energy changes are inevitable when changing from sugar burning to fat burning - it takes time, from weeks to months, depending.

What makes you think cravings are simply caused by low fat ...

I was eating the fattiest cuts possible with plenty of butter & cream

Lean meat even with fats, are too monocultured to be considered a whole food

[William]

What makes you think cravings are simply caused by low fat ...

I was eating the fattiest cuts possible with plenty of butter & cream

Lean meat even with fats, are too monocultured to be considered a whole food

Experience.
The fattiest cuts of meat I can find in a store were too lean; dairy is allergenic for many of us, including me.

Monocultured? Until I do the wild man thing and start eating whole frogs, mice, bugs, bats, beaver, rabbit etc. raw grass-finished organic beef+tallow  will have to do.

[roony]

lol im not suggesting you need to hunt roadkill, im simply stating you need the full range of nutrition, you just need to include organs, as muscle meats dont contain the nutrition organs do necessary to regenerate health & heal disease optimally


I'm not putting down tallow or whatever, if you dont want to eat organs great, but those are the facts, if you want to disagree then fine, but do it with some evidence pls

[William]

muscle meats dont contain the nutrition organs do necessary to regenerate health & heal disease optimally


I'm not putting down tallow or whatever, if you dont want to eat organs great, but those are the facts, if you want to disagree then fine, but do it with some evidence pls

It's your proposition, it's up to you to support it, after people have proven the opposite.

[aunaturale]

lol im not suggesting you need to hunt roadkill, im simply stating you need the full range of nutrition, you just need to include organs, as muscle meats dont contain the nutrition organs do necessary to regenerate health & heal disease optimally


I'm not putting down tallow or whatever, if you dont want to eat organs great, but those are the facts, if you want to disagree then fine, but do it with some evidence pls

People on this forum need to start thinking and acting like a caveman!!!!!! If you were out
in the wild, obviously you'd be hunting. Thats not a question.
You certainly would not let nothing goes to waste!!!!! NOTHING

'Like nourishes like' For me, no dairy minimal vegetables (cooked, maybe in a soup or stew)
raw tallow, suet, marrow raw meats, no lean meat though none of this
lean s**t, picture a killed elk or other large land animal in front
of you, theres plenty of fat and protein. You're not going
straight for one. also, no nuts or seeds (these are more agricultural-type foods,
found more commonly later in time) cant imagine caveman soaking these

[roony]

People on this forum need to start thinking and acting like a caveman!!!!!! If you were out
in the wild, obviously you'd be hunting. Thats not a question.
You certainly would not let nothing goes to waste!!!!! NOTHING

'Like nourishes like' For me, no dairy minimal vegetables (cooked, maybe in a soup or stew)
raw tallow, suet, marrow raw meats, no lean meat though none of this
lean s**t, picture a killed elk or other large land animal in front
of you, theres plenty of fat and protein. You're not going
straight for one. also, no nuts or seeds (these are more agricultural-type foods,
found more commonly later in time) cant imagine caveman soaking these

Great post, eat like a natural instinctive person

All animals & all forms of primacy realise the need for broad spectrum meats, & nutrition, they dont run around picking nutritionally monoculture'd meats, all meats & organs are complete ecological cycles,

[aunaturale]

All animals & all forms of primacy realise the need for broad spectrum meats, & nutrition, they dont run around picking nutritionally monoculture'd meats, all meats & organs are complete ecological cycles,

Well said Roony. In laymans terms, think act but most importantly eat like a beast
devour everything in sight. you know those eyeballs look tempting

[roony]

Well said Roony. In laymans terms, think act but most importantly eat like a beast
devour everything in sight. you know those eyeballs look tempting

You're beast like nourish for like is great too, can we avoid butchers to sanitise our meat for us? Cleaning out intestines etc., as a caveman i say no

[aunaturale]

You're beast like nourish for like is great too, can we avoid butchers to sanitise our meat for us? Cleaning out intestines etc., as a caveman i say no

think about it, raw probiotics
you didn't hear it from me 

everything a human needs is found in nature. Our Creator set mankind
up very nicely. To know that the majority of people nowadays are turning
atheist is disgusting and wrong. big bang theory my ass!!!!!
its a theory for a good reason

....but religion and faith, thats a whole 'nother issue

[PaleoPhil]

I'm not sure why so many beginners are using raw ground beef, ground beef oxidises rapidly, you also end up absorbing metals from the grinder ... you're much better off slicing your meat into small chunks

also never buy ground beef, as butchers fill it with cereals or some other crap

I buy only pasture-fed beef from quality sources in my own or adjacent states and the ground version is the only kind I can afford (whole cuts all cost much more per pound in my local markets). The fact that it's pre-ground is also a time savings, though that is just a beneficial side effect, not the main reason I bought it. Despite what some here claim, I also find ground meat to be the easier and faster to eat for me than the alternative cuts the markets sell and it gives me more fat than the other cuts (which tend to be lean steaks and tough cuts of meat intended for stews or tenderizing). I've never had a problem with pasture-fed ground beef and I'm not concerned if small amounts of metal get into it (selenium, which is rich in wild and pasture-fed animal flesh, helps to detox metals, BTW).

I'm not concerned about oxidation because I actually intentionally oxidize some of my meat into high meat and eat the rotted meat. I find it more important to avoid de-oxidation (anaerobic bacteria and anaerobic cancer cells) than oxidation. Indeed, the thread topic was about trying to eat a MORE oxygenated diet, not less. I recommend that anyone interested in this topic read about Warburg's work on the subject. Rosedale was also mentioned.

I haven't bought a big freezer or meat grinder yet, because I may be moving soon. Some day I plan on doing so and will then probably do something like what Lex is doing, including grinding meat, organs and fat myself.

I do also make and eat jerky from cheap supermarket steak to give my mouth a workout and as a tasty treat and publicly semi-acceptable convenience food. I also occasionally make raw pemmican from the jerky, but it's too time-consuming to bother with beyond special occasions.

Many people report eating supermarket ground beef without any problems, but I want the higher levels of vitamins A, K2 and D3 in pasture-fed meats and I much prefer the taste. Pasture-fed meats also give me more of the mildly euphoric well-being feeling, which tells me that they're probably healthier for me (of course, it could be psychological, but it was unexpected). Pasture fed meats also tend to be raised in more humane and environmentally sound ways.

You need to add organs & raw fats, as lean meat on its own can lead to unpleasant side effects, i wouldnt consider lean meats on their own a complete meal, check the beginners section klowcarb

Ground beef contains fat as well as lean muscle meat, though I add fat to mine to bring the % calories as fat up to 70-85%, though I don't measure it precisely. Katelyn, did you ever tell me what the % of calories as fat in your ground beef is?

Lex, someone said you have a fat-meter that measures the % of fat in ground meat. Is it worth getting?

[klowcarb]

Phil, I'm eating 80/20 and 75/25 right now. I keep my Fitday records, and each day I get, if the ground beef is consistent, between 72-74% of my daily calories from fat, the rest protein. I feel great! 

[PaleoPhil]

Phil, I'm eating 80/20 and 75/25 right now. I keep my Fitday records, and each day I get, if the ground beef is consistent, between 72-74% of my daily calories from fat, the rest protein. I feel great!  

OK, that sounds like a good level. I'm getting gradually better at digesting fat, so I've been gradually upping my own fat intake % and I feel better when I eat more fat. I should measure it some time. I know my beef is supposed to be 60% calories as fat, so I'm probably well above that.

[klowcarb]

You might try setting up a Fitday account for yourself. You are like me--we are thin so we need more calories than we feel like eating at times. I feel great at this ratio.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks, I did that some time ago. I'm not fond of that software. I find it easier to use Nutritiondata, generally, but I have indeed been able to put on some weight as I've increased my % fat intake and tried to make sure I eat 2 pounds or more of meat and fat per day. While counting calories may not help in losing weight, it does seem to help in gaining it (although I don't count calories, I just measure out portions).

[klowcarb]

I use nutritiondata as well to see consistency in the figures. I also choose to enter my meats as custom foods so I can continually select them. Lol, right now it is easy each day: 80/20 raw, 75/25 raw, and list the amounts! I kind of find it fun.

Right now I'm planning on keeping my gains. I have my body at the leanness I've wanted for a while--all while going raw since September, I should add, and I am still going up in weights at the gym. I added 5 lbs. to some of my lifts today, in fact, so I am maintaining/gaining strength. That is important to me as an ectomorph--I know you can relate.

BTW, a lot of us carnivores are journaling over at Active Low Carber forum. Moises, the other ectomorph, is journaling there to. You are welcome to come by and say hello, Phil. Let me know if you are ever in the area again--we can meet up for raw steaks, lol.