Author Topic: Hello from Estonia  (Read 23653 times)

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Offline chucky

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2010, 04:30:11 am »
   I've never seen them.  I assume most (natural) animal products if not all are better raw.  If you are accustomed to cooked foods, this would be a good one.  It would have to be cooked all through, not just whatever meat or skin might be on them.  Like I said, not having seen them, I have little conception.    

I suppose you already googled them but nevertheless here is a picture of oxtails
http://mllenoelle.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/raw-oxtails.jpg

They look yummy and I have exactly the same looking things in my fridge! Probably I will find out tomorrow how "awfully" they can taste :)

I love chewing on bones of all kinds - I always have, even though for nearly all of my life the bones were cooked and some could splinter dangerously.  (People used to tease me about being a caveman.)  I have certainly chewed the bones in ox-tail soup.  And just this morning I was chewing on the remains of my raw lamb leg bone in the bath (so as not to make a mess).  I guess it depends how strong your teeth are.

So the bones are edible with our teeth ? I understand that one who has eating SAD can't crack the bones with their teeth. I remember having problems with my teeth when I was young. They used to crack easily. Never had problems now since my diet has improved over the years until now when I went paleo but I would be careful eating it right now :)


Thanks for replying.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 04:36:13 am by jarnapal »

Offline RawZi

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2010, 04:41:52 am »
I suppose you already googled them but nevertheless here is a picture of oxtails
http://mllenoelle.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/raw-oxtails.jpg

They look yummy and I have exactly the same looking things in my fridge! Probably I will find out tomorrow how "awfully" they can taste :)

    Thank you.  I wonder if I can find them around here.  Tell us how they taste and how edible you find the bones.  They look good.  I bet the spine stuff in the middle is great too.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2010, 04:51:19 am »
I love chewing on bones of all kinds - I always have, even though for nearly all of my life the bones were cooked and some could splinter dangerously.  (People used to tease me about being a caveman.)  

    I used to chew on all the bones too.  Before I became VEGAN FOr NEARLY 30 Years, I remember someone said to me "I don't have to tell you there are children starving in Africa".  I didn't like meat back then, unless it had a bone in it.  Thinking back, although I didn't like meat, I did like bones.  I found the marrow, tendons, gristle, and cartilage to be nice to chew on and swallow bits.  I chewed open whatever bones I could, like chicken.  I chewed on fish bones (and fish skin).  I don't think I was like a caveman, more like a skinny canine that somehow disliked the meat every single dinner and lunch.  I did like sweetbreads when I tried them as a child, I liked them a lot.  I (accidentally) frustrated my parents to no end maybe, them buying good meat, me not really enjoying it and going gaga over the bones.  I had never had the opportunity for raw bones back then.

    Thirst for minerals?  Need for connective tissue?  
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Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2010, 04:58:17 am »
I suppose you already googled them but nevertheless here is a picture of oxtails
http://mllenoelle.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/raw-oxtails.jpg

They look yummy and I have exactly the same looking things in my fridge! Probably I will find out tomorrow how "awfully" they can taste :)

So the bones are edible with our teeth ? I understand that one who has eating SAD can't crack the bones with their teeth. I remember having problems with my teeth when I was young. They used to crack easily. Never had problems now since my diet has improved over the years until now when I went paleo but I would be careful eating it right now :)


Thanks for replying.
I certainly couldn't have cracked the rock hard white parts of the lamb bone I was eating this morning with my teeth.  (Although once I got the cartilage off the ends, I could gnaw some way into the porous red bone underneath.  Eventually I gave up, and later on I gave it to my sister's dog.)

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2010, 05:04:48 am »
Thinking back, although I didn't like meat, I did like bones.  I found the marrow, tendons, gristle, and cartilage to be nice to chew on and swallow bits.  I chewed open whatever bones I could, like chicken.  I chewed on fish bones (and fish skin).  I don't think I was like a caveman, more like a skinny canine that somehow disliked the meat every single dinner and lunch.  I did like sweetbreads when I tried them as a child, I liked them a lot.  I (accidentally) frustrated my parents to no end maybe, them buying good meat, me not really enjoying it and going gaga over the bones.  I had never had the opportunity for raw bones back then.

    Thirst for minerals?  Need for connective tissue?  
I liked every bit too - and still eat all the shell and legs and heads of shrimps, and scavenge out most of fish-heads.  (One reason I could never be a whole hearted veggie when I was under that spell, was that I loved meat and fish so much.  The other was, that it was pretty obvious everything gets eaten when it's dead - so why is it better that maggots and worms eat a rabbit than me?  As for killing them - well it's also pretty obvious that people's use of land is so rapacious, that if they weren't edible/usable the only cows and sheep alive would be in zoos and the odd wildlife sanctuary - so they would never even have a life to lose.)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 05:10:54 am by Stig of the Dump »

Offline yon yonson

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2010, 06:51:36 am »
   I bet the spine stuff in the middle is great too.

unfortunately, there's no marrow or spinal stuff in the middle. it's just bone. the fat around the muscle is good though

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2010, 07:24:49 am »
....

    Thirst for minerals?  Need for connective tissue?  
Possibly. Do you have any of the symptoms of connective tissue disorders or mineral deficiencies at http://www.ctds.info?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2010, 09:39:22 am »
Possibly. Do you have any of the symptoms of connective tissue disorders or mineral deficiencies at http://www.ctds.info?

    LOL ever hear of UCTD/MCTD?  I haven't looked at your link yet but yes I have the old blood work etc to prove I have had severe problems with that.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2010, 10:09:44 am »
Yes, I'm familiar with the quite a number of cases of UCTD/MCTD, "overlap syndrome," "lupus overlap syndrome," etc., and many of its symptoms run in both sides of my family, particularly the relatives with more heavy Irish ancestry, and in myself. The CTDS.info site is the best on CTD I've seen. Sandy Simmons did one hell of a job and her info was very informative at a time when there was little info on the subject on the Internet beyond her site. She was way ahead of most of the doctors and scientists in connecting the dots. CTD is one of the classic diseases/syndromes of civilization. It's a constellation of symptoms that baffles physicians who call it "idiopathic" (unknown cause) in their ignorance. In general, "idiopathic" really means "disease of civilization," aka "disease of biological discordance."
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 10:16:10 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline chucky

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2010, 03:06:33 pm »
   I used to chew on all the bones too.  Before I became VEGAN FOr NEARLY 30 Years, I remember someone said to me "I don't have to tell you there are children starving in Africa".  I didn't like meat back then, unless it had a bone in it.  Thinking back, although I didn't like meat, I did like bones.  I found the marrow, tendons, gristle, and cartilage to be nice to chew on and swallow bits.  I chewed open whatever bones I could, like chicken.  I chewed on fish bones (and fish skin).  I don't think I was like a caveman, more like a skinny canine that somehow disliked the meat every single dinner and lunch.  I did like sweetbreads when I tried them as a child, I liked them a lot.  I (accidentally) frustrated my parents to no end maybe, them buying good meat, me not really enjoying it and going gaga over the bones.  I had never had the opportunity for raw bones back then.

    Thirst for minerals?  Need for connective tissue?  

It does feel like mineral deficiencies or addictive/psychological. But if it was mineral deficiencies, you would crave on different other foods also unless the bones contain some unique stuff that simple foods don´t have. Clacium ?

I certainly couldn't have cracked the rock hard white parts of the lamb bone I was eating this morning with my teeth.  (Although once I got the cartilage off the ends, I could gnaw some way into the porous red bone underneath.  Eventually I gave up, and later on I gave it to my sister's dog.)

Hehe, I thought you were eating the whole bone with your teeth. My imagination of cracking the teeth not the bone was right.
unfortunately, there's no marrow or spinal stuff in the middle. it's just bone. the fat around the muscle is good though

What about those foods containing bone marrow. I read up from the google about people ordering bone marrow which and they will be served with the bone filled with liquid bone marrow.



I read about Aajonus eating one stick of butter with a banana 4-8 times a day after strong mushroom poisoning which destroyed his liver. I wonder why was he doing it. Does it have some kind of healing benefits (I mean the banana and butter combination). I tried it also and ate 100g butter with a banana. Well, if it doesn't have any healing benefits, it tasted damn good!  Next day I mixed the banana with butter and ate it. It really is a treat! Next time I will mix it and try putting it into the fridge. I wonder if it takes the hardened shape.
Heh, it's far away from zero carb but I will try not to make it into a habit :)
 

It's funny how my mother caught me munching on butter today. I was eating the butter and my other said "Please don't eat it, your cheeks have grown so big already" (I have been doing paleo for ~2 weeks) . I wonder if it's psychological and my mother is just imaging it as my cheeks have not grown bigger but the face lines have become more sharper.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 03:13:46 pm by jarnapal »

Offline RawZi

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2010, 03:53:50 pm »
It does feel like mineral deficiencies or addictive/psychological. But if it was mineral deficiencies, you would crave on different other foods also unless the bones contain some unique stuff that simple foods don´t have. Clacium ?

    Milk (pasteurized) made me throw up, I couldn't stand ice cream many-a-time (pasteurized). I loved all green leafy vegetables prepared in any manner or not prepared, I disliked most grain, I loved to eat plain almonds and cooked or sprouted lentils and figs and my teeth were tiny (and late) and my bones were very thin.  I had other various signs of possible blood calcium deficiency.  I also had those marks in my nails.  I did not like salt much either, and not soy.  Yes, I think calcium could have been one of my mineral deficiencies. 

Quote
Pasteurized Milk
Nutritional Values
Minerals--
After pasteurization the total of soluble calcium is very much diminished. The loss of soluble calcium in regards to infants and growing children must be a very important factor in growth and development, not only in the formation of bone and teeth, but also in the calcium content of the blood, the importance of which is now being raised.

    Hah I wrote a little dramatically, like I was a dog, liking to chew bones.
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Offline chucky

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2010, 05:33:59 pm »
Ok I just ate my oxtails. (Thinking pause how to put it into the best words)

I haven't had anything like this before. All the beef sold here is lean and had to munch on butter to get my fat. These oxtails were full of fat. I feel so satiated! I cooked them only on the sides to make them warm/hot. It tasted so good that I am going to include it as a main part of my diet. I loved the taste of fat and the tissue. It was like a sweet treat.

But there is a small drawback about the oxtails. It takes hell of a time to eat them raw. I tried to eat them raw as much as possible. I probably ate them for an hour and I am boiling the rest right now. If you want to eat oxtails raw better make sure you have some very sharp scissors or knife.
I wonder if cavemen would cook the rest to get all the meat from the bone...

Unfortunately there was no eatable bone marrow inside the bone as I hoped.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2010, 05:36:30 pm »
It takes hell of a time to eat them raw. I tried to eat them raw as much as possible. I probably ate them for an hour and I am boiling the rest right now. If you want to eat oxtails raw better make sure you have some very sharp scissors or knife.

    goodsamaritan has scissors he uses on and recommends for meat.
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Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2010, 07:20:39 pm »
Yes, I'm new to this and I've mainly been using scissors.  I started off trying to dice things or hack bits off with a knife.  Now I sometimes notch it with a knife, but then pull (sometimes with my teeth) and use scissors a lot.

I was a bit worried I wouldn't like my  meat raw, but I must have a pretty clean palate.  Raw tastes just like cooked meat only better.  I ate some raw calves' liver the day before yesterday, and it tasted just like cooked liver (which I love) but a lot sweeter.  (Not even a need for scissors it was so soft - just teeth.)

(By the way, the liver had the odd hole in it like Swiss cheese.  Does anyone know if that means something about the animal's health?  It came from Germany, and it said the animals were "specially selected" whatever that means.  In the future I want to get organic grass fed livers from my posh butcher.  I've been too shy to visit them yet.)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 07:33:47 pm by Stig of the Dump »

Offline chucky

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2010, 07:53:14 pm »
Yes, I'm new to this and I've mainly been using scissors.  I started off trying to dice things or hack bits off with a knife.  Now I sometimes notch it with a knife, but then pull (sometimes with my teeth) and use scissors a lot.

I was a bit worried I wouldn't like my  meat raw, but I must have a pretty clean palate.  Raw tastes just like cooked meat only better.  I ate some raw calves' liver the day before yesterday, and it tasted just like cooked liver (which I love) but a lot sweeter.  (Not even a need for scissors it was so soft - just teeth.)

(By the way, the liver had the odd hole in it like Swiss cheese.  Does anyone know if that means something about the animal's health?  It came from Germany, and it said the animals were "specially selected" whatever that means.  In the future I want to get organic grass fed livers from my posh butcher.  I've been too shy to visit them yet.)

When I bought beef lifer a week back, it also had a hole. It's probably nothing to worry about.

Holes in beef liver:

Offline Stig of the Dump

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2010, 08:03:03 pm »
When I bought beef lifer a week back, it also had a hole. It's probably nothing to worry about.

Holes in beef liver:

Thanks.  I guess it's normal then, at least.  I was a bit worried I had eaten the liver of some sort of 'boy in the plastic bubble' calf after I read this:

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/03/07/8247.aspx
  :lol:

Offline chucky

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2010, 09:32:19 pm »
When I first started with paleo and very low carb diet, I was consuming only one kind of a butter. Every time I ate decent amount of this kind of butter I got minor erection. It was pretty funny. Whenever I ate this butter, I got an erection  8) . But later when I switched the brand of my butter, unknowingly I didn't have the erection anymore as I ate the butter. I thought it was something my body was adjusting to and it was done with it. But today I ate the same butter I was eating at first and got an erection. The butter that gives me erection is probably from better feed, probably grass fed. Although, I am not sure about the other butters.

Is there any explanation to this  :) ?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2010, 10:46:03 pm »
Maybe you're reacting to some hormone in the raw butter?
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Offline chucky

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2010, 11:07:31 pm »
Maybe you're reacting to some hormone in the raw butter?

Interesting... Butter full of testosterone ? Almost works like Viagra!

Besides that, we don't have any raw butter in Estonia. We can get raw milk directly from the farm but any of them seems to make raw butter.

Offline roony

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2010, 01:36:53 am »
When I first started with paleo and very low carb diet, I was consuming only one kind of a butter. Every time I ate decent amount of this kind of butter I got minor erection. It was pretty funny. Whenever I ate this butter, I got an erection  8) . But later when I switched the brand of my butter, unknowingly I didn't have the erection anymore as I ate the butter. I thought it was something my body was adjusting to and it was done with it. But today I ate the same butter I was eating at first and got an erection. The butter that gives me erection is probably from better feed, probably grass fed. Although, I am not sure about the other butters.

Is there any explanation to this  :) ?

Butter does contain hormones, but its more likely due to the increased vascolur activity of the butter, in the same way viagra induces erections, but on a smaller scale, ie through increasing the supply of blood

Offline miles

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2010, 02:39:43 am »
When I first started with paleo and very low carb diet, I was consuming only one kind of a butter. Every time I ate decent amount of this kind of butter I got minor erection. It was pretty funny. Whenever I ate this butter, I got an erection  8) . But later when I switched the brand of my butter, unknowingly I didn't have the erection anymore as I ate the butter. I thought it was something my body was adjusting to and it was done with it. But today I ate the same butter I was eating at first and got an erection. The butter that gives me erection is probably from better feed, probably grass fed. Although, I am not sure about the other butters.

Is there any explanation to this  :) ?

I got something similar when I started eating cheese. I used to eat what's generally considered healthy with no animal fats. When I started eating cheese, I got something like you describe... This was ~3-4 years ago... I don't generally eat cheese as it's high in salt, and it's dairy. But when you've only had grains/salads/fruits/milk and small amounts of lean meat the animal fat makes a big impact.

I've been eating cooked meat since I was ill(from tough fat) and it tastes so bad... I need to eat some acidic & watery fruit with it as well as lots of water. Fruit I don't like now either, so I've ended up eating stuff with grain and everything since it all seems equally bad now after my 'trial' with raw meat. The only problem is, I can't get enough 'melt in the mouth'(or even close) type fat, so I get the opposite of what you describe... Extremely low libido. I get small amounts in only some packs of meat when I'm lucky. The hard, tough fat(referred to as suet by many, as it's virtually the same texture as the fat around the kidneys which I believe is the actual definition of suet) doesn't taste nice in the first place and is indigestible to me. It just sits in me and makes me severely ill. I'm really hoping someone can tell me a suitable substitute for soft-fat, as even if(and I should make an effort to) find a source of meat which comes with this, it'd still be good to have a back-up for when I don't get enough...
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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2010, 06:43:20 am »
I'm really hoping someone can tell me a suitable substitute for soft-fat, as even if(and I should make an effort to) find a source of meat which comes with this, it'd still be good to have a back-up for when I don't get enough...

Within living memory, practically everyone used lard or tallow in their kitchens, and nobody had a problem with it.
Commercial lard is always poisoned where I live, so you'll have to make your own.

Offline miles

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2010, 07:39:33 am »
Is lard quite solid? I always imagined it being soft, but I have some 'Beef Dripping' in my fridge which I thought was like lard; but it's solid stuff. It has tasted of nothingness when I've had any of it.
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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2010, 08:52:49 am »
The commercial lard I have is soft, but it has preservatives so I haven't touched or opened it for 5 years, doesn't need refrigeration. I'm not old enough to remember the good stuff.

Offline chucky

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Re: Hello from Estonia
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2010, 04:39:39 am »
I have Lard here in Estonia that has no additives and comes from quality source. Like William said, it's soft on room temperature, a bit tougher but extremely sticky when refrigerated and hard enough to cut with knife when freezed.

I tried eating lard (rendered pigs fat) by it self... It would be better if it's enough to just rub it on your skin and you will absorb everything.. The taste was not peasant at all. Haven't tried spreading it over my meat though..

Butter does contain hormones, but its more likely due to the increased vascolur activity of the butter, in the same way viagra induces erections, but on a smaller scale, ie through increasing the supply of blood

Actually it's interesting. Got the same result from eating ground beef. Although, I don't have that kind of erection with that butter anymore.

 

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