Why you shouldnt buy honey without a comb or a modern bee farm

[roony]

This describes the main reason why honey as sold today, even organic is completely unsuitable for consumption

http://www.honey-online.co.uk/shop.asp


Also i'm pretty sure, unless you have a large amount of wax & propolis & royal jelly, to dilute the sugar content of honey to a manageable level, it will not work as aajonus recommends


aajonus uses im guessing undrained honey, honey in its purest form, or from a wild hive


honey with the grubs & wax clippings surrounding the frame, a large amount of propolis is around the frame of a beehive, which gets heated off


Also dont buy from apiaries or beefarms, who use stuff like frames, as they dont keep the queen bee inside the hive ... so no grubs or large amounts of propolis & royal jelly


It is basically impossible to buy honey from local bee farms, what i would consider beneficial to health, as the queen bee is isolated from the hive, in modern bee apiaries, resulting in a huge decrease in royal jelly & protein from grubs, which is what aajonus refers too


I have however found a way round this & will post in a minute


This also explains WHY raw paleoists are getting such a deleterous effect from ingesting honey, chronic low levels of royal jelly & protein from grubs in modern farms

[van]

I've kept bees, and know bee farmers.  It is not my experience that queens are not kept with the hive. 

[roony]

I've kept bees, and know bee farmers.  It is not my experience that queens are not kept with the hive.  

hi,
thats not what i meant, if you check the follow up thread, how to create real raw paleo honey, i explain it there, thnx

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/hot-topics/how-to-create-real-raw-paleo-honey/msg26585/#new

[Raw Kyle]

I think it's more likely that people get ill effects from honey because they eat a lot of it. It tastes like candy, and most of us were brought up to be addicted to sweets.

[roony]

I think it's more likely that people get ill effects from honey because they eat a lot of it. It tastes like candy, and most of us were brought up to be addicted to sweets.

Only from extracted honey, real raw honey is completely different

[TylerDurden]

I don't see the raw honeycomb I've gotten as not truly "real", just because it doesn't contain propolis or royal jelly. Besides, the latter items are only a tiny proportion of the overall raw honeycomb.

[Raw Kyle]

Only from extracted honey, real raw honey is completely different

You're talking about bee hive contents. Honey is the sugar, you say you add back in royal jelly, propolis etc. If honey was all those things, they wouldn't have to be added back in. Also, even this food you have come up with would comprise a very small fraction of paleo man's food, none for some cultures, and I have serious doubts that large amounts of this stuff would be very healthy, at least in the context of a raw paleo diet.

[roony]

I don't see the raw honeycomb I've gotten as not truly "real", just because it doesn't contain propolis or royal jelly. Besides, the latter items are only a tiny proportion of the overall raw honeycomb.

Well if you check the follow up thread i created, i explain all of this, the links up there, maybe this should be moved to hot topics too, as my follow up threads moved there too


My follow up thread to this post is

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/how-to-create-real-raw-paleo-honey/

[RawZi]

Also i'm pretty sure, unless you have a large amount of wax & propolis & royal jelly, to dilute the sugar content of honey to a manageable level, it will not work as aajonus recommends


aajonus uses im guessing undrained honey, honey in its purest form, or from a wild hive

I think it's more likely that people get ill effects from honey because they eat a lot of it. It tastes like candy, and most of us were brought up to be addicted to sweets.

Only from extracted honey, real raw honey is completely different

    Aajonus does not recommend to eat honey as if you were some wild kid in a candy store.  He recommend 1 tsp per 8 tsp raw organic butter.  He recommends the honey to be labeled both unheated, unfiltered and unprocessed.  Most primal dieters I know who don't have their own hives buy from a company that cold hand packs.

    From my experience, adding a small amount of unheated honey to most foods makes people friendly bacteria grow, and as that bacteria grows and multiplies, there is more protein, in the form of healthy bacteria.

    I'm sure he gets some wild honey in his travels, but I doubt he is recommending junk honey to anyone.  He recommends it eaten in specific manners for health reasons.  Even perfectly raw honey eaten in gluttonous manner will produce ill effect, unless maybe you have only one hive in your tree that you don't spray and wait all year before you eat its honey.

[Raw Kyle]

He also recommends drinking several milkshakes a day, which contain tablespoons of honey, and likewise moisturizing/lubricating formulas with similar amounts. I'm not totally against AV, in fact I'm going to give the ole' Primal Diet an experimental try just for fun again, but in terms of raw paleo his views on honey and high carbohydrate/sugar foods in general are pretty off. I think it's pretty obvious he tailors his diet a little more towards taste rather than health to attract more people.

[roony]

He also recommends drinking several milkshakes a day, which contain tablespoons of honey, and likewise moisturizing/lubricating formulas with similar amounts. I'm not totally against AV, in fact I'm going to give the ole' Primal Diet an experimental try just for fun again, but in terms of raw paleo his views on honey and high carbohydrate/sugar foods in general are pretty off. I think it's pretty obvious he tailors his diet a little more towards taste rather than health to attract more people.

Not true, you just dont understand the research behind stuff like honey

If you bothered to sit & research aajonus' material its never as simple as it sounds

[Raw Kyle]

Not true, you just dont understand the research behind stuff like honey

If you bothered to sit & research aajonus' material its never as simple as it sounds

What material? I've read both of his books cover to cover, met him personally and sat through an 8 hour lecture from him, and listened to a half dozen or so internet radio interviews with him. Not to mention tried the diet for about a year and more if you count on and off times switching from that and raw paleo. How long have you been on the Primal diet?

[TylerDurden]

What material? I've read both of his books cover to cover, met him personally and sat through an 8 hour lecture from him, and listened to a half dozen or so internet radio interviews with him. Not to mention tried the diet for about a year and more if you count on and off times switching from that and raw paleo. How long have you been on the Primal diet?

You've met him personally. What is he like, personality-wise?

[goodsamaritan]

The way I understand Aajonus is his point of view is of a healer attending to the terminally ill who is weak.  Those people will need those honey + fat combos Aajonus is suggesting.  I've had exposure to those terminally ill and a healer who does attend to them hands on 24 hours a day.  The terminally ill need something like this.

Most of us here are not terminally ill.

[Raw Kyle]

You've met him personally. What is he like, personality-wise?

He was enthusiastic and confident. He lost track of the time because he got so into his lecture and stories, which is why it was 8 hours. At the time I was finishing up my B.S. in biology and asked him if he was interested in what my plan at the time was, which was to go on to grad school and do nutritional research on raw foods. He said to contact him when I got a project going, and was nice about it.

[RawZi]

The way I understand Aajonus is his point of view is of a healer attending to the terminally ill who is weak.  Those people will need those honey + fat combos Aajonus is suggesting.  I've had exposure to those terminally ill and a healer who does attend to them hands on 24 hours a day.  The terminally ill need something like this.

Most of us here are not terminally ill.

    One problem I find with terminally ill, is just because they may have had a reaction to, say, olive oil, and combine that with all the anti-dietary fat propaganda they've heard all their lives, they may be completely to their detriment and death unwilling to even taste a raw animal fat.  It's sad, because they will try most of the rest (carpaccio etc), but no matter if it kills them, they won't go against the system with fat.  Apparently being in a terminal coma works better to have a real chance to then instead heal with primal diet than the fat phobic to the death awake people who may refuse to even taste any or all dietary fat in all situations.  

    Sorry, but some of the fat phobia I've seen is ridiculous.

[Raw Kyle]

The way I understand Aajonus is his point of view is of a healer attending to the terminally ill who is weak.  Those people will need those honey + fat combos Aajonus is suggesting.  I've had exposure to those terminally ill and a healer who does attend to them hands on 24 hours a day.  The terminally ill need something like this.

Most of us here are not terminally ill.

Thing is, he recommends that same stuff to everyone regardless of whether they are terminally ill, comatose, or apparently healthy. He said I look jaundiced 

[William]

RawZi has it right. Even here there is a lot more discussion of meat than of fat.

Thing is, he recommends that same stuff to everyone regardless of whether they are terminally ill, comatose, or apparently healthy. He said I look jaundiced 

I don't know what he says in private, but does he really recommend raw ice cream to everyone?
See the post on his website from the ice cream addict:http://www.wewant2live.com/

If I could get raw organic grassfed type 2 cream I would make raw ice cream. I remember his recipe.

[RawZi]

RawZi has it right. Even here there is a lot more discussion of meat than of fat.



I don't know what he says in private, but does he really recommend raw ice cream to everyone?
See the post on his website from the ice cream addict:http://www.wewant2live.com/

If I could get raw organic grassfed type 2 cream I would make raw ice cream. I remember his recipe.

    In private, he recommended a very specific diet according to my health needs.  He did not recommend me any ice cream, nor any coconut cream, nor avocado, nor high meat actually.  Simple grass grazed foods mostly, but frequently and in very specific order (and certain combos).

[RawZi]

Thing is, he recommends that same stuff to everyone regardless of whether they are terminally ill, comatose, or apparently healthy. He said I look jaundiced 

    He recommended very frequent tiny portions (or should I say doses for the size like a pill) of (unsalted raw grassfed) hard cheese to me.  He didn't emphasize honey to me.  Actually, he told me to raise my meat intake.  I was only eating (raw) meat once per day.  He told me to eat two full meat meals per day.  Mind you, this is for me.  And he told me that.  He told me many people need less meat than my body does.

[TylerDurden]

AV does mini-consults of 5 minutes each and larger consultations of 30 minutes, last I checked.Perhaps he gives different advice for longer consultations.

[Raw Kyle]

    He recommended very frequent tiny portions (or should I say doses for the size like a pill) of (unsalted raw grassfed) hard cheese to me.  He didn't emphasize honey to me.  Actually, he told me to raise my meat intake.  I was only eating (raw) meat once per day.  He told me to eat two full meat meals per day.  Mind you, this is for me.  And he told me that.  He told me many people need less meat than my body does.

I meant in his books, which is the main way he connects to people, he recommends basically the same thing to everyone.

[RawZi]

I meant in his books, which is the main way he connects to people, he recommends basically the same thing to everyone.

    Right, I read his book first, and from that I thought one meat meal per day was enough for me.  He has about two or three basic meal plans detailed. 

    I guess it's somewhat like horoscopes.  There are 365 days in a year.  There are 12 Chinese years, and so on.  That give thousands of combinations or more.  I can say a Taurus is earthy.  But if I look at the person's whole natal chart it gets into dozens of pages of detail. 

AV does mini-consults of 5 minutes each and larger consultations of 30 minutes, last I checked.Perhaps he gives different advice for longer consultations

    There's also a .. I forget if it's 70, 75 or 90 min consult.  I did the longest one.  Even by looking at my hands, before he got to my eyes, he said I need more meat than many other people he gives consults to.