Candida / Leaky gut / CFS / Electrosensitivity

[Paleo Donk]

Since our bodies cannot metabolize incomplete proteins from plants, then its impossible to make any proteins from plants ever. The only way to make proteins is from animals. Thus all vegetarians can never make new proteins ever no matter how hard they try.  Thus, they can never grow new muscle or repair tissue. Thanks for the clarification.

[cherimoya_kid]

some people pemmican, others pemmicant
(yes i worked on that all day)

That was witty, my dear.   

[William]

Since our bodies cannot metabolize incomplete proteins from plants, then its impossible to make any proteins from plants ever. The only way to make proteins is from animals. Thus all vegetarians can never make new proteins ever no matter how hard they try.  Thus, they can never grow new muscle or repair tissue. Thanks for the clarification.

You underestinate the fiendish cleverness of depraved and crackpot vegetarians, to wit: they combine beans, which contain 19 of the needed amino acids with rice which has all but one of the rest, them add an egg or other source of the missing amino acid, thus abraca pocus: protein!

Before somebody demands the source of abraca pocus, it's from one of the best of Bugs Bunny cartoons.

[jessica]

dosent you body just pull whatever amino acids are necessary at the time to do a job?

and not rely on something as basic as muscle tissue to muscle tissue conversion?

isnt this partially why raw food is much more beneficial for you body, because when you cook something, anything with amino acids, it gets tough because those amino acids form stronger bonds, ruining the previous acids and making it harder for our bodies to convert then would be if they had been uncooked?

as far as pig stomach...perhaps you have a mexican restaurant in town that makes menudo?  with pigs? i dont know im kosher, if we lived near each other i would suggest we settle this "discussion" paleo style with clubs and shit....lol
p.s. you can wield the club, i will wield the shit...

[jessica]

You underestinate the fiendish cleverness of depraved and crackpot vegetarians, to wit: they combine beans, which contain 19 of the needed amino acids with rice which has all but one of the rest, them add an egg or other source of the missing amino acid, thus abraca pocus: protein!

"ca pocus"? weird
yeah i always underestimate anyone who considers an egg a vegetable: LOL @ vegetarians

[Ioanna]

Forgive my curiosity, but do you have an idea why? I'll assume it was not the jerky, as everyone can eat that.

it's not your curiosity, but your condescending attitude that should be requesting forgiveness.. apparently i am not part of the 'everyone' you speak about!

i have made jerky from the same meat that eaten fresh is health-improving and digests fine.  the lowest temperature on my dehydrator setting is 85 degrees F (technically 'raw'), that's what I used.  the fat i used is not actually rendered tallow, but set at 85 degrees F for an hour or so to get mushy and then blended with the lean.  this is the same way i eat extra fat today when i'm in the mood for extra fat, only without the blending part, and i digest that just fine. a surprise to me as well, but it's NOT the fat.  the dryer the meat, the worse my symptoms... and they are horrible!  again, this is the same meat that is health promoting fresh and even aged is better i have found.

i love hearing everyone's experiences on this forum, but your post attribute what has been successful for you to literally 'everyone'... that's not fair!... it's not fair to newbies... it's not fair to people who read here trying to learn to rebuild their health, and it most certainly is not fair to me!

[Ioanna]

A raw diet, wont cure autoimmune diseases like crohns & colitis ... you need specific bacteria & nutrition, ie pigs stomach lining

why do you post this nonsense and ignorant kind of statements??... because you read it somewhere?... because you *think* you read it somewhere?

do you even realize that people who might be trying to cure the above are here, may even be newbies, and may even think there is some reason or truth to your bs claim??

stop posting what YOU don't know, which has been just about all of your post thus far.

[William]

it's not your curiosity, but your condescending attitude that should be requesting forgiveness.. apparently i am not part of the 'everyone' you speak about!

I will try not to be condescending - you may be aware that coping with the tallowphobes distracted me so that I didn't notice it.

i have made jerky from the same meat that eaten fresh is health-improving and digests fine.  the lowest temperature on my dehydrator setting is 85 degrees F (technically 'raw'), that's what I used.    the dryer the meat, the worse my symptoms... and they are horrible!  again, this is the same meat that is health promoting fresh and even aged is better i have found.

Puzzling to me, because the only difference I've read between fresh and dried meat is less water and according to Dr. Harris, neutralized allergen (albumin in blood IIRC).

Have you guessed at what might have caused the difference? What I would wonder at is the dehydrator, for lack of knowledge of any other influence.

[TylerDurden]

Well said, Ioanna re above posts. As for Crohn's, numerous RVAFers have reported curing it on a rawpalaeodiet judging from past posts on other RVAF diet forums. Same goes for various  other auto-immune diseases.It's so much more effective in this regard than other diets, even cooked-palaeodiet. I even heard 1 vague claim by someone that he'd cured himself of a genetic illness(Grave's disease) with the Primal Diet(that is, he stated that he had got rid of the symptoms or reduced them heavily, rather than getting rid of the genetic illness as a whole).

Re water-content:- Part of the reason why cooked foods are less easy to digest is, I suspect, the lower water-content. I'm not sure how that works. Maybe water-content is necessary as a sort of catalyst re digestive-enzymes.

[alphagruis]

The main difference between raw meat and jerky is of course the water content and consequently also the taste. It seems to me that it tastes usually better (specifically for newbies) than fresh raw meat because flavors are more concentrated (less water and somewhat oxidised and bacteria and fungi modified surface layer that reminds a little bit cheese or cooked meat...)

This means that it is much easier to overeat jerky than fresh meat and get digestive ailments.




 

[djr_81]

This means that it is much easier to overeat jerky than fresh meat and get digestive ailments.

I've noticed this myself. I'm of the mind that beyond the taste influencing overeating the lack of water also disrupts a natural stop response (the body actually starts giving water hunger signals but we misinterpret these for regular hunger). Either was it's very easy to overeat on dried food.

[TylerDurden]

I've noticed this myself. I'm of the mind that beyond the taste influencing overeating the lack of water also disrupts a natural stop response (the body actually starts giving water hunger signals but we misinterpret these for regular hunger). Either was it's very easy to overeat on dried food.

Well, I haven't experienced this  with dried fruit.

[djr_81]

Well, I haven't experienced this  with dried fruit.

Seriously? I personally noticed this worst with dried fruits. I always overate dried fruit until I was either out of the fruit or felt nauseous. At least now with meat I catch myself and stop eating all the jerky but I never did with dried fruit.
Granted, I'm dealing with Candida so it's very possible this overshadowed natural stops there.

[William]

This means that it is much easier to overeat jerky than fresh meat and get digestive ailments.

The proportion of tallow to jerky is important too, and easy to neglect the tallow - result is painful to me.

[Paleo Donk]

The people who have eaten dried jerky with unrendered animal fat or fat rendered at low temps should probably try some pemmican with fat rendered at its traditional 220-240F. The Del Fuegos got poor results with fat rendered at low temps and additional poor results by simply dipping the jerky into fat without breaking it down into dust first (Nicola just posted this somewhere). Just something to consider if you haven't tried it this way as this traditional method worked very well for both the natives and the euros.

[TylerDurden]

The people who have eaten dried jerky with unrendered animal fat or fat rendered at low temps should probably try some pemmican with fat rendered at its traditional 220-240F. The Del Fuegos got poor results with fat rendered at low temps and additional poor results by simply dipping the jerky into fat without breaking it down into dust first (Nicola just posted this somewhere). Just something to consider if you haven't tried it this way as this traditional method worked very well for both the natives and the euros.

  Actually, a number of rawpalaeos have mentioned that they get fewer symptoms if the temperature re rendering is lower. 1 reason, among many, to doubt Del Fuego's claims.

[William]

  Actually, a number of rawpalaeos have mentioned that they get fewer symptoms if the temperature of rendering is lower

Fewer symptoms of what?

[TylerDurden]

Fewer symptoms of what?

 Maldigestion, constipation, general feeling of ill-health, burping etc. etc. etc. And that's just the short-term effects mentioned. No wonder so many rawpalaeos give up on pemmican as a minstay of their diet.

[Paleo Donk]

  Actually, a number of rawpalaeos have mentioned that they get fewer symptoms if the temperature re rendering is lower. 1 reason, among many, to doubt Del Fuego's claims.

You're not only doubing DF, but the millions of others that tried it with success. It was only a suggestion for those that have not tried it the traditional way. I don't have a problem with the fact that many of you will fare poorly on it. There are other things that make me doubt DF though, like his statement that his family was angry and that one of his kids started showing signs of autism when they started eating raw meat, though this could be explained by the fact that he would not have given his body enough time to re-adapt to raw meat. There also Danny, from carnivorehealth.com who started to immediately lose his hair whenever he switched from pemmican to lex's ground beef + organ pet food mix.

In any case I think its fascinating that pemmican can work so well for some and so poorly for others and its nice to see so many people here giving it a shot.

[Nation]

There also Danny, from carnivorehealth.com who started to immediately lose his hair whenever he switched from pemmican to lex's ground beef + organ pet food mix.

Do these people ever try eating a little bit of carbs or do they switch directly from raw ZC to pemmican?

[William]

 Maldigestion, constipation, general feeling of ill-health, burping etc. etc. etc. And that's just the short-term effects mentioned. No wonder so many rawpalaeos give up on pemmican as a minstay of their diet.

If that were true, and it made people sick, it would not have been  used among Northern peoples - looks like you are cherry-picking data. Again.

[William]

Do these people ever try eating a little bit of carbs or do they switch directly from raw ZC to pemmican?

Not known, but unlikely because the main point of those who try pemmican is better health than they experience on RZC, or they can't really do RZC.
I have never known carbs to improve health.

[Ioanna]

I will try not to be condescending

thank you for trying

you may be aware that coping with the tallowphobes distracted me so that I didn't notice it.

there is experience behind their position. 'tallowphobe' is your perspective, maybe you could 'try' to be less condescending by considering their (and my) perspective.

Puzzling to me, because the only difference I've read between fresh and dried meat is less water and according to Dr. Harris, neutralized allergen (albumin in blood IIRC).

I cannot decide which words punctuate my indifference more: 'read', 'Dr.' or 'neutralized allergen'. 

I'm a real, alive human being with a real experience in contrast of yours... is that okay?? 

Have you guessed at what might have caused the difference? What I would wonder at is the dehydrator, for lack of knowledge of any other influence.

anyone's guess is as good as mine.  i don't care though... it doesn't work, i don't eat it... period.

seriously??? now we have to evaluate my dehydrator???  my dehydrator is an excalibur, it is supposed to be among the top line of dehydrators AFAIK. I looked into that heavily as the quality was extremely important to me at the time.  or maybe i just didn't plug it in right

If that were true, and it made people sick, it would not have been  used among Northern peoples - looks like you are cherry-picking data. Again.

serious??... again??  by symptoms are FAR worse than any that TD described.

i accept you and your experiences with pemmican. i'm even in awe and sincerely happy for you and what you have overcome.  why can't you accept that we are not all 'william'?

I have never known carbs to improve health.

thank you for using the appropriate pronoun!  In distinct contrast, fwiw, I have known carbs can be appropriate for improved health. 
 

[William]

thank you for trying
there is experience behind their position. 'tallowphobe' is your perspective, maybe you could 'try' to be less condescending by considering their (and my) perspective.
I cannot decide which words punctuate my indifference more: 'read', 'Dr.' or 'neutralized allergen'. 
I'm a real, alive human being with a real experience in contrast of yours... is that okay?? 
anyone's guess is as good as mine.  i don't care though... it doesn't work, i don't eat it... period.
seriously??? now we have to evaluate my dehydrator???  my dehydrator is an excalibur, it is supposed to be among the top line of dehydrators AFAIK. I looked into that heavily as the quality was extremely important to me at the time.  or maybe i just didn't plug it in right
serious??... again??  by symptoms are FAR worse than any that TD described.
i accept you and your experiences with pemmican. i'm even in awe and sincerely happy for you and what you have overcome.  why can't you accept that we are not all 'william'?
thank you for using the appropriate pronoun!  In distinct contrast, fwiw, I have known carbs can be appropriate for improved health. 

If any person of goodwill can answer this, please do so. I can't.

William

[djr_81]

If any person of goodwill can answer this, please do so. I can't.

Why? Ionna was perfectly civil with her responses and raises very valid issues.

Now, how about we steer back to helping Brady with his transition such as this thread was intended and stop with the pemmican tangent?