New from Louisiana and fighting an infection ?s

[Carnivora]

Hi,
  Well, I'm really from AZ, but I've been living in LA for the past few years. I've been browsing this forum for the past couple of weeks.

Since 2005, my normal diet has been loosely based on what I've gleaned from the research of Weston Price. I have been a big fan of grass fed meats, raw dairy and fermented vegetables.

For a few days now, I've been trying to incorporate raw meats into my diet. I have a tooth infection in a partially erupted wisdom tooth. I went to the ER this past weekend and they gave me some antibiotics which are gone now, yet some pain remains and I know I am going to need this tooth removed.

I guess I am looking for advice on the best way to tweak the diet for my current needs. I am a 28 year old female -- currently overweight due to a difficult pregnancy last year(hypoglycemia then bedrest...ending in surgery) and unable to lose much since. My baby is almost 11 months now and is still breastfeeding for about 70% of his total nutrition, I'd estimate(so, a lot).

I feel fantastic after eating a meal of raw foods -- no pain in my tooth or head. My body and face flush with warmth and I feel quite good. I had raw lamb with egg yolk, tamari and a little dijon mustard last night. I had some raw oysters with salt and lemon this morning with some grapes.

I was so hungry a little while after the oysters today that I broke down and made some cooked chicken tacos with avocado. Now I feel like crap again and my head and tooth hurt.

So obviously I do better on the raw foods, but I am troubled how they don't seem to fill me up... within an hour or so I am already quite hungry again. Do you think it is the infection, the breastfeeding -- or is it normal to have to eat at least a few lbs of meat and a lot of fruit per day to stave off hunger(expensive!)?

Sorry this was so long, but I would appreciate any opinions -- thanks in advance.

[djr_81]

Welcome.
IMO your stomach is used to more food in it and a slower digestion. You're looking for that "full" feeling but we don't really get that eating raw. It's more of a sated but light feeling in the stomach.
If I recall correctly I ate a lot of meat in the initial transition to raw (I was transitioning to a carnivorous diet at that time as well) trying to sate the same hunger pangs. Eating more fat helps but it's also just going ot take some time for your stomach to shrink some. Stick with it and you'll feel better in a couple weeks. FWIW after 5 months I eat maybe 2 pounds of meat and 1/2 pound of fat on a very active day with most being less.

[Carnivora]

Welcome.
IMO your stomach is used to more food in it and a slower digestion. You're looking for that "full" feeling but we don't really get that eating raw. It's more of a sated but light feeling in the stomach.
If I recall correctly I ate a lot of meat in the initial transition to raw (I was transitioning to a carnivorous diet at that time as well) trying to sate the same hunger pangs. Eating more fat helps but it's also just going ot take some time for your stomach to shrink some. Stick with it and you'll feel better in a couple weeks. FWIW after 5 months I eat maybe 2 pounds of meat and 1/2 pound of fat on a very active day with most being less.

Thank-you, this was really helpful. I am going to the grocery store today so I am going to try to stock up on some different meats and do my best to eat smaller meals so I'll feel like I am getting more. Maybe that will help me keep from breaking down and binging on a big cooked meal.

[William]

If you eyeball the meat you buy, it should be 1/4 fat.

We have all had a lifetime of training not to eat fat, and unless we break that training we have troubles with food.

[RawZi]

I guess I am looking for advice on the best way to tweak the diet for my current needs. I am a 28 year old female -- currently overweight due to a difficult pregnancy last year(hypoglycemia then bedrest...ending in surgery) and unable to lose much since. My baby is almost 11 months now and is still breastfeeding for about 70% of his total nutrition, I'd estimate(so, a lot).

    Hi Carnivora,

    Nice to meet you.

    I think it's from the breastfeeding.  I never ate so much like I did when I bf'ed, I was truly hungry every moment even though I ate.  

    I'm thinking since you so recently switched over to raw meats and are likely eating less grain, roots and sugar, that your milk is richer yet less abundant.  Carbs make more abundant body fluids (including breastmilk increase), yet less nutrient dense body fluids.

I was so hungry a little while after the oysters today that I broke down and made some cooked chicken tacos with avocado. Now I feel like crap again and my head and tooth hurt.

    Yes, you are hungry uncontrollably more than us and more than you were because of this switch during this time.  Sounds wonderful to me, the opportunity passing this healthful way onto your child.  I would recommend if you could, eat more raw fat until satisfied and always have abundant raw fat around.  Also, you may find cutting down on things like soy sauce and on mustard helps.  Grains are very addictive, and I know you're hungry.  Just eat the fat and your baby may pick up the habit earlier than us on eating this densely nourishing food that's important to all infants as well.  

    I can tell you the utmost truth, raw grass grazed cultured fat did immediately take bad fat off my body and strengthen my muscles and bones (things important for a nursing mother like you).

    If I can help you in any way or whatever happens, if you drop me a line, I care to help.

    Best to you on this.  I wish I found raw paleo a few years earlier.  It's a treasure.

[Carnivora]

If you eyeball the meat you buy, it should be 1/4 fat.

We have all had a lifetime of training not to eat fat, and unless we break that training we have troubles with food.

Ok, that's good to know. I am purchasing most of the meat I get from the grocery store and I can tell there is a lot less than 1/4 fat, especially on the beef(though I am buying mostly lamb or seafood). I have raw, grassfed butter though, so I wonder if I can make up for the lack of fat in the meat with that?

I believe there are a couple of different specialty butchers in town, I will call around and see what they carry. I need to add some organ meat to my diet if I can. I would rather eat it fresh. A few years back I started taking supplements of dessicated cow thyroid and adrenal and I starting having heart palpitations and skipped beats.

[Carnivora]

   Hi Carnivora,

    Nice to meet you.

    I think it's from the breastfeeding.  I never ate so much like I did when I bf'ed, I was truly hungry every moment even though I ate.  

    I'm thinking since you so recently switched over to raw meats and are likely eating less grain, roots and sugar, that your milk is richer yet less abundant.  Carbs make more abundant body fluids (including breastmilk increase), yet less nutrient dense body fluids.

    Yes, you are hungry uncontrollably more than us and more than you were because of this switch during this time.  Sounds wonderful to me, the opportunity passing this healthful way onto your child.  I would recommend if you could, eat more raw fat until satisfied and always have abundant raw fat around.  Also, you may find cutting down on things like soy sauce and on mustard helps.  Grains are very addictive, and I know you're hungry.  Just eat the fat and your baby may pick up the habit earlier than us on eating this densely nourishing food that's important to all infants as well.  

    I can tell you the utmost truth, raw grass grazed cultured fat did immediately take bad fat off my body and strengthen my muscles and bones (things important for a nursing mother like you).

    If I can help you in any way or whatever happens, if you drop me a line, I care to help.

    Best to you on this.  I wish I found raw paleo a few years earlier.  It's a treasure.

Hey, thank-you for your encouragement and advice. This was my second pregnancy, but third child. I had twins in 2005. I was following a mostly raw, mostly vegan diet when they were conceived and I was underweight and undernourished for childbearing imo. I wish I had been eating more animal foods and had had a little more weight on me. I think maybe that had something to do with some of the developmental delays of my twin sons and premature birth etc.

I breastfed them for over 2 years and they were on raw goat or cow milk, as I could find it, thereafter, but they still struggle with some delays.

At any rate, I also gained a ton of weight with my first pregnancy and was not able to lose any of it until I stopped breastfeeding(but I did get down to a healthy weight again). I know they say that breastfeeding is supposed to help you lose weight, but my body holds onto every ounce for some reason and I am constantly hungry too.

I would be thrilled if going raw would help me lose even 10lbs of fat while still bfing! Just the thought of it super motivates me.

Thank-you for your help, I will let you all know how it goes!

[RawZi]

I am purchasing most of the meat I get from the grocery store and I can tell there is a lot less than 1/4 fat, especially on the beef(though I am buying mostly lamb or seafood). I have raw, grassfed butter though, so I wonder if I can make up for the lack of fat in the meat with that?

    For me, I wouldn't mess with non-grass grazed fat.  I think it's toxic.  If you are able to get the best raw grassfed butter, I would go with that for now.  As for organ meats, I would go with heart or other lean meats, unless it is grass fed.  Where is your seafood from?  Lamb for that matter, is it New Zealand?

    I hope you're all healed after the infection.  Did you take it out?

[Carnivora]

   For me, I wouldn't mess with non-grass grazed fat.  I think it's toxic.  If you are able to get the best raw grassfed butter, I would go with that for now.  As for organ meats, I would go with heart or other lean meats, unless it is grass fed.  Where is your seafood from?  Lamb for that matter, is it New Zealand?

    I hope you're all healed after the infection.  Did you take it out?

My lamb is from the US, but it says 'all natural' so I am assuming it is pasture fed. I should probably do more research on that though. I am buying mostly wild Atlantic salmon and raw shucked oysters from Texas. I also eat pickled herring and lox, but I'm not sure if that counts for the raw paleo diet.
I had a tuna steak tonight because it looked so good, but I'm not sure where it was from. I'm also eating a lot of raw eggs. They are brown and some are fertile, but I buy them from a regular grocery store.

My medical insurance is horrible -- although I'm pretty sure they cover wisdom teeth removal due to pain/flaring up etc. I am having to wait another couple weeks for an appointment, where I will hopefully get a referral to get an appt to get in to see a dentist. It's the VA hospital(I'm a veteran), so that's just the way it works. I should have gotten them taken out 10 years ago before it got this bad.

[RawZi]

My lamb is from the US, but it says 'all natural' so I am assuming it is pasture fed. I should probably do more research on that though. I am buying mostly wild Atlantic salmon and raw shucked oysters from Texas. I also eat pickled herring and lox, but I'm not sure if that counts for the raw paleo diet.

    Me too, I'm hesitant to do bone marrow from the health food store.  I know it's "natural", but I don't know either where it's from.  Lambs may be milk fed.  The shucked oysters, they are likely pasteurized.  Which side of Texas is it from?  If they are helping you, great!  If not, wait to do them till you can get live.  Pickled and smoked fish are not ideal, but they are better than heat cooked.  I'm not sure how paleo either.  Paleos did have fire, so smoking the fish, just by keeping it safe nearby them by a campfire probably happened.

I had a tuna steak tonight because it looked so good, but I'm not sure where it was from. I'm also eating a lot of raw eggs. They are brown and some are fertile, but I buy them from a regular grocery store.

    I think Tuna would be deep ocean.  Was it previously frozen?

My medical insurance is horrible -- although I'm pretty sure they cover wisdom teeth removal due to pain/flaring up etc. I am having to wait another couple weeks for an appointment, where I will hopefully get a referral to get an appt to get in to see a dentist. It's the VA hospital(I'm a veteran), so that's just the way it works. I should have gotten them taken out 10 years ago before it got this bad.

    Funny, people told me that going into the military wisdom teeth are automatically taken out just after boot camp.  The VA dentist is probably very good as far as dentists go.  I wish you lots of luck!

[Carnivora]

   Me too, I'm hesitant to do bone marrow from the health food store.  I know it's "natural", but I don't know either where it's from.  Lambs may be milk fed.  The shucked oysters, they are likely pasteurized.  Which side of Texas is it from?  If they are helping you, great!  If not, wait to do them till you can get live.  Pickled and smoked fish are not ideal, but they are better than heat cooked.  I'm not sure how paleo either.  Paleos did have fire, so smoking the fish, just by keeping it safe nearby them by a campfire probably happened.

    I think Tuna would be deep ocean.  Was it previously frozen?

    Funny, people told me that going into the military wisdom teeth are automatically taken out just after boot camp.  The VA dentist is probably very good as far as dentists go.  I wish you lots of luck!

The tuna was yellowfin and it was previously frozen -- tasted great though. 

Well, when I got out of bootcamp I was 18 and my wisdom teeth were impacted. I had never had a surgery before and was scared, so I didn't complain, even though the ones on the bottom finally started coming through a year or so later and pushed all my bottom teeth together unattractively. It was not until recently, 10 years later, that I developed a root abscess(I'm guessing) and the pain was just awful.

I also can't wait to see what the raw meat does for my dental health... I was not too impressed with my dental health(plaque buildup +sensitivity etc) while on strict WAP... I think raw paleo might be the extra step up that I need.

[goodsamaritan]

The key professional to go to is a biological dentist.

To get at the infections in the bones you need a beam ray operator.

[Carnivora]

Well, I was doing great all day -- everything raw, over 50% meat...and then about a half hour ago I caved and ate some grains. I really think it has to be the breastfeeding because it is literally uncontrollable, the craving for carbs... it wasn't sugar either, it was whole grains. My mother said she could never lose weight while breastfeeding either... she didn't do it for as long as I do though. I am generally very disciplined so I know this is not the same as just giving in to a random craving or even a sugar addiction.

Maybe I will just add in 10% whole grains or so per day until I am done breastfeeding.

[PaleoPhil]

The advice of physicians and prominent scientific, academic and government organizations tends to be a mishmash of contradictory info and fancy lingo. I found that the very simple ways of life of traditional peoples, especially hunter gatherers, helped to cut through the crap. Not because I was seeking to re-enact old ways of doing things simply for the sake of re-enactment, but because the old ways were backed by thousands of years of successful experience and trial-and-error science instead of just pronouncements from degree-holding priests in ivory towers, whereas the new ways of thinking are frequently muddled, contradictory and often incomprehensible (and I sometimes suspect intentionally so) and change from one day to the next. Despite this, I still love modern science and try to learn from the best of both worlds in my own research (and the best science of today tends to incorporate knowledge gleaned from the 2.5 million years of human experience before the Neolithic era).

Check out the experience of Ray Audette with feeding a Paleo diet that incorporated raw fruits and veggies and some raw and nearly-raw meats to his pregnant wife and his son Gray-Hawk. The reported results were quite encouraging. Check out also Manthropology by Peter McAllister for more examples of what people used to be capable of before they ate lots of industrially processed foods.

[goodsamaritan]

Now that we know that you are breast feeding, there are a few things to look into.

I just personally observe that women's bodies somewhat calculate that they have enough nutrition to make babies, carry them to term and nurse them.  So your body has probably calculated its nutritional requirements far before hand.  Now that you are consciously trying to change the whole game, you get the resulting subconscious cravings.

Hope that makes sense.

[PaleoPhil]

I should add the caveat that our Paleolithic ancestors also suffered some health problems and pockets of nutrient deficiencies too, and even wild animals (especially the giant panda) can exhibit health problems and nutrient deficiencies. In my excitement I sometimes forget to warn about this. Biological evolution (or intelligent design, depending on your perspective) only works to get humans and other animals to reproductive age. After that, it doesn't appear to have much impact on disease and survival other than encouraging some older adults to survive so as to provide guidance and stability to a human, elephant, chimp, etc. population.

[Carnivora]

Now that we know that you are breast feeding, there are a few things to look into.

I just personally observe that women's bodies somewhat calculate that they have enough nutrition to make babies, carry them to term and nurse them.  So your body has probably calculated its nutritional requirements far before hand.  Now that you are consciously trying to change the whole game, you get the resulting subconscious cravings.

Hope that makes sense.

I think it does make sense though it probably isn't what I want to hear(since I would like to lose some weight already). I do know that good health is more important than vanity, however. At the least, my weight and body fat is remaining pretty much the same. It just happens to be a lot higher than what is normal for me.

I have tried to do some heavy working out while just eating my normal diet and within 36 hours after a workout, I develop mastitis... which is just horrible. This has happened 3 times during this lactation and each time takes a couple of weeks to recover and I can tell you I won't be working out beyond walking and light yoga etc again until the baby is weaned.

But I am still seeing other benefits from adding the raw meats -- slightly improved vision, less pain in my body, and a general sense of well being.

[Carnivora]

I should add the caveat that our Paleolithic ancestors also suffered some health problems and pockets of nutrient deficiencies too, and even wild animals (especially the giant panda) can exhibit health problems and nutrient deficiencies. In my excitement I sometimes forget to warn about this. Biological evolution (or intelligent design, depending on your perspective) only works to get humans and other animals to reproductive age. After that, it doesn't appear to have much impact on disease and survival other than encouraging some older adults to survive so as to provide guidance and stability to a human, elephant, chimp, etc. population.

This is some great food for thought, thank-you.  I will also check out the story you recommended in your previous post.

[William]

I should add the caveat that our Paleolithic ancestors also suffered some health problems and pockets of nutrient deficiencies

 url for this?

[PaleoPhil]

I'll bet Tyler has more on that than I do, so I'll let him handle that unless he doesn't want to.