Oh Nuts..!

[miles]

This morning I had some raw Sardines. I had been at a supermarket fishmonger yesterday and ordered the plain-gutted/beheaded sardines,  he then told me they were out of them but that he would give me the garlic & pepper(sweet pepper, but he didn't tell me either way) marinated Sardines for the same price, which I accepted. Upon taking the packet out of my fridge and opening it, I found that it seemed to have been marinated in olive oil or something similar as well, which had not been mentioned; and it said that it had already been frozen. Anyway, I went ahead and ate the sardines. They weren't making me feel that great but I went ahead and ate around 500g(but that included bones which I left). After that, I had a huge craving for nuts and I ate a load of them. I've been trying to eat carnivorously, and hadn't had more than 15 individual nuts in the last (probably >)6months anyway as they never left me feeling good. However, my body seemed to disguise the negatives until after I'd eaten enough of them, and I did feel very energised by them, relative to what I had been recently... but the negative feelings kicked in not long after too.

The nuts were in a mixed bag(only nuts; not peanuts/cashews) and the overall values were around(xg/100g) 66g fat, small amount saturated; 3.9g carbohydrate, small amount sugars; fairly high fibre, probably ~8g mark but I don't remember and I think the protein is irrelevant as I get plenty of that anyway.

I doubt the reason was the fibre, as there seems to be little beneficial about it; there was only a small amount of carbohydrates and I didn't go for the sugared cranberries in the same bag(though this could just be my 'will', as I have seen nuts as a lesser-negative than fruit, and especially sugar), however I did seek out the almonds particularly and I've heard mention of 'sweet almonds', so I don't know if they have more carbohydrate/sugar.

Which leaves the fat... Is unsaturated fat much easier to digest than saturated in its' raw state? I have felt in general as though I have not had enough fat since raw, but if I've eaten much raw animal fat I've felt unable to use it and it has seemed to clog me up and make me feel sick and slow. When I ate cooked I had a lot of saturated fat from beef/pork/lamb, but that was already fairly soft when I ate it. Does grass-fed beef have much more unsaturated fat? If so, is that the yellow fat that all the beef seemed to have in abundance at Good Samaritan's market? I have really enjoyed that yellowy fat but have only found it in my beef in very small quantities. I don't think I can digest much of the white-fat I've been getting in my beef...

Anyway, something made me go for those nuts, and I felt the energy from them. This seems to show something lacking...

[TylerDurden]

Correct, grassfed meat has more polyunstaurated fats in it.

[miles]

And is that fat yellow and soft?

My digestive system can't handle this raw hard-white fat(from muscles)... It makes me ill... I smell of 'stale fat', I have no energy for doing exercise, I mean I CAN'T push myself, literally CAN'T, not like the days when I've just had lean steaks with very little fat(since I last had this Sh** raw hard white fat), when I've been been able to metabolise plenty of energy, but just not have much of it so run myself really low on energy but can still keep going and push hard... With this hard white raw fat I cannot use energy AT ALL... and when I try to exercise I get the same feeling that I used to have when I ate grains, ~2years ago... the IBS feeling. I was doing much better for a few days when I had lean steak almost no fat... but it wasn't right either... I was taking in less energy than I could put out and nowhere near enough fat... but if I have the fat I can't use it anyway...

Do the people who are successful with raw animal fat only eat this yellowy fat? Because this white stuff seems BS.

I don't see how it can have anything to do with me adapting to using fat.. I've had loads of fat for ages.. but cooked. I just can't even digest this sh**. Or absorb it or whatever.

Help.


By the Way, the place I am planning on getting my grass-fed beef from is here: http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/council_gov_democracy/news/38696.asp
What do you think about that?

[William]

Do the people who are successful with raw animal fat only eat this yellowy fat? Because this white stuff seems BS.

I don't see how it can have anything to do with me adapting to using fat.. I've had loads of fat for ages.. but cooked. I just can't even digest this sh**. Or absorb it or whatever.

Help.

Mostly, the white stuff is all I have, and I have the same problem. Solved it by rendering so I keep the EFAs/tallow and dump the solids which must be the cause of the problem.

[miles]

Is that from grass-fed beef William? & Does rendering mean cooking? I have this stuff called 'Beef Dripping'.. Do you think I should use this instead of the fat that comes in the beef?

[Raw Kyle]

& Does rendering mean cooking?

Oh Jesus...

[miles]

Oh Jesus...

What? I've never heard the term 'rendering fat' before this site, that does not make me stupid. The only way I've heard 'render' is to 'render something useless', meaning 'to cause it to become so', i.e. "Bill was wading across a river, clutching anxiously at his rifle which he rested atop his floating back-pack. All of a sudden a loud noise startled him. He scrambled around to see where the noise had come from but in the panic he lost his footing, sending him splashing in to the water, rifle and all; rendering his firearm useless. Now he felt more alone than ever." When I searched 'render' it seemed to be about 'melting the fat' i.e cooking it...?

Raw Kyle, I have a real problem here for which I am trying to find solution. It is making me ill, and I am 'clutching at straws', following what little bits of information I can to find that solution; information that I've only acquired through this forum and scarcely through google-searches and I am hoping people can fill in the blanks through their own experiences. Why can you not just help, instead of 'rolling your eyes at me'?

[jessica]

perhaps you are allergic to nuts? often we crave things we are allergic to until they are gone from the body long enough for it to forget(im sure theres a more scientific explanation for why the craving stops but time seems to be the variable) a lot of things i was allergic to would be me a jolt of energy then i would feel like garbage, slightly pukey, sneezy, rashy or just tired and out of it....just something to consider

[cherimoya_kid]

Why can you not just help, instead of 'rolling your eyes at me'?

He wasn't rolling his eyes at you.  William has a long-running and convoluted disagreement going about rendering versus cooking with other members of the forum, specifically, I believe, tylerdurden.  The whole argument has gone nowhere a number of times. No one is interested in having it happen again.   Basically, that's the story, I believe, with the eye-rolling.

[djr_81]

Miles;
It's possible that you're trying to get your energy from suet fat which is hard in the beginning. It's harder to break the suet fat down as it's more highly saturated.
If you have to buy supermarket meat then speak with the butcher and see if he can hold you his trimmings. They cut lots of fat off of almost all meat in the supermarket as the public is generally fat-phobic. Most butchers will have no problem holding these trimmings for you as they're going to be tossed anyways. They're also softer fat so you'll break them down easier and get quicker energy from them.

[miles]

Well, today it was the fat from some diced muscle meat. It wasn't 'marbled fat', or soft-fat, but solid chunks attached but separate to the meat. Very similar to how it is in diced-heart... I don't know what Suet actually means, but I've heard people describe mainly the fat around non-skeletal-muscle organs such as the heart/kidney as Suet. This fat does have a very similar texture to the heart-fat that I had similar problems with before. I also got this from lamb-fat too, that was fat separate from the meat but attached.. solid pieces. Maybe we're not 'supposed' to eat this kind, only the fat which is mixed in with the muscle or 'marbled' as I think it's referred to? =/ I think I even read somewhere that grass-fed beef from properly-matured cattle had more of this 'marbling'.

[Raw Kyle]

Hehe sorry you didn't get my joke Miles. To answer your question without joking, I believe that rendering is a type of cooking. It is basically boiling, you boil off the water from fat, liquifying the fat, then strain out the solids leaving you with hot (will burn you, or fry something, on contact) mostly pure fat, purified by intense heat. Don't know what else other than cooking that would be, unless deep frying or boiling of soup isn't cooking.

However I will say I believe rendered fat has much less of the negative effects from cooking fat as compared to other cooking methods. There have even been some studies showing very modest oxidation levels.

[djr_81]

Well, today it was the fat from some diced muscle meat. It wasn't 'marbled fat', or soft-fat, but solid chunks attached but separate to the meat. Very similar to how it is in diced-heart... I don't know what Suet actually means, but I've heard people describe mainly the fat around non-skeletal-muscle organs such as the heart/kidney as Suet. This fat does have a very similar texture to the heart-fat that I had similar problems with before. I also got this from lamb-fat too, that was fat separate from the meat but attached.. solid pieces. Maybe we're not 'supposed' to eat this kind, only the fat which is mixed in with the muscle or 'marbled' as I think it's referred to? =/ I think I even read somewhere that grass-fed beef from properly-matured cattle had more of this 'marbling'.

It sounds like it could be suet fat.
Lamb fat is more saturated than beef fat so this could possibly be harder to digest if you're not making enough bile yet.
FWIW all of the extra fat I add to a meal (beyond what's in the meat) is suet fat. It's more sustaining to me and I enjoy the texture a lot. I've tried to use other fat before but I get tired sooner when I eat this way.

[miles]

I thought the bile only acted as an emulsifying agent, and doesn't really break it down? Is it actually natural for a human to eat this kind of fat? Are you saying that one will adapt to produce enough bile that they can properly digest this suet-fat as their main fat-source, and not suffer these problems which I am? Is it even natural for these animals to be made of this kind of fat? Would it not be discarded and only the softer-fat consumed? Considering how much it's hurting me, it seems unlikely to me that I could ever adapt to be able to digest this kind of fat. Am I wrong?

[djr_81]

I thought the bile only acted as an emulsifying agent, and doesn't really break it down?

I believe it emulsifies and helps break it down.
Wikipediaentry

Is it actually natural for a human to eat this kind of fat?

I think it is. We'd eat it when eating the organs in a fresh kill...

Are you saying that one will adapt to produce enough bile that they can properly digest this suet-fat as their main fat-source, and not suffer these problems which I am?

I have and I'm sure I'm not atypical. Some prefer other fats I prefer suet.

Is it even natural for these animals to be made of this kind of fat?

Suet fat is perfectly natural. I'd wager it's more saturated for additional protection of the vital organs.

Would it not be discarded and only the softer-fat consumed?

Nope. It's got less moisture in it as well as being more saturated. It stores better than softer fats in my experience.

Considering how much it's hurting me, it seems unlikely to me that I could ever adapt to be able to digest this kind of fat. Am I wrong?

Yes and no.
If you want to get your body to make enough bile you can use it just fine. It's harder on the body in the short-term though. Best to get used to other fats and then play with suet (or grate it finely as this makes it easier to break down). Just be aware you'll most likely have some chunks of suet in your bowel movements for a while as you eat it.
You're also eating grainfed fat. In my experience this can impair your system indefinitely depending on how sensitive you are to the grains in the animal's diet.

[miles]

I had last night, through the night and still have a proper fever.. The sort I used to get when I was <10yrs old and would have 'febrile convulsions' from. I've had like this each time after that raw hard white fat, but this time's been the worst...

How could the body know that it would need to produce more bile, if that is even the problem...

Couldn't I even give myself cancer if I kept doing this..?

[goodsamaritan]

I used to have bile problems with a stuck up liver and lots of liver stones.  I did a lot of liver flushes and ate a lot of raw eggs via wai diet first with easy to digest raw fish and raw eggs plus fruits.  I felt my digestion / bile getting stronger and went into raw land animals.  Today I can do experiments like redfulcrum's lots of raw protein diet and zero carb days experiments.

I believe my ingestion of bieler's soup improves my bile production.

[miles]

Anyone going to say more...?

[RawZi]

I believe my ingestion of bieler's soup improves my bile production.

    Do you drink Bieler's soup now?

[roony]

Fat, is a potent detoxifier, regular amounts of fat, also forces your body to redistribute its sugar levels, which eventually leads to ketogenesis, a good thing ... stick with it, it will pass

You cant get cancer from raw food ...

[William]

To answer your question without joking, I believe that rendering is a type of cooking. It is basically boiling, you boil off the water from fat, liquifying the fat, then strain out the solids leaving you with hot (will burn you, or fry something, on contact) mostly pure fat, purified by intense heat. Don't know what else other than cooking that would be, unless deep frying or boiling of soup isn't cooking.

However I will say I believe rendered fat has much less of the negative effects from cooking fat as compared to other cooking methods. There have even been some studies showing very modest oxidation levels.

Rendering is not a cooking method. It is a separating method.
The result of rendering is: 1- water
                                            2- solids
                                            3- essential fatty acids (EFAs), traditionally called tallow or lard.

The first two are discarded, the last is edible.
AFAIK the only people who ever got sick from eating tallow are those whose faith is so strong that they can make themselves sick. Can't reason with the faithful. Futile.

Tallow and lard were used in every kitchen forever, and nobody ever reported getting sick from it.

[roony]

That's because most animal fats, have high temperature resistant properties

for example ghee

But boiling an animal fat does in fact rid it of healthy bacteria & parasites, vital to health

[William]

But boiling an animal fat does in fact rid it of healthy bacteria & parasites, vital to health

Yes, so we pass much air over wet meat, thereby adding hordes of creepy crawlies to it, then when dried we coat the infected meat with sterile imperishable tallow which preserves the wee critters with an airtight coating.

[roony]

Yes, so we pass much air over wet meat, thereby adding hordes of creepy crawlies to it, then when dried we coat the infected meat with sterile imperishable tallow which preserves the wee critters with an airtight coating.

Airborne bacteria, is nowhere near as effective as the bacteria & parasite in meat, designed to process & feed the meat to us, & nourish cells & co-exist with existing parasites in our bodies.

You cant replace the makeup of airborne bacteria, as it's vastly different to the bacteria & parasites, already existing in meat


All you're doing is reducing the number of bacteria & parasites, which exist in our environment to clean up & repair inert substances, such as cooked foods, the high temperature resistance of animal fats, simply reduce's the amount of bacteria & parasites to break it down, remove it from our environment, as it would with cooked foods

[djr_81]

AFAIK the only people who ever got sick from eating tallow are those whose faith is so strong that they can make themselves sick. Can't reason with the faithful. Futile.

Ah, the irony.