Tapeworms.

[miles]

From "QI" Chit-chat on tv: In the past, poor people have been the most susceptible to tapeworms. These people would be thin, despite eating lots of food. (This came about because they were discussing diet, and after seeing this effect, there were some rich people who wanted to be thin like the poor people, so consumed tapeworm eggs).

Does this not worry you, how many people had tape-worms, and how it affected them? It is just that I am worried that perhaps, the people here who are saying that tapeworms are not a problem, are saying so because they have similar mindsets to the people who consumed those eggs intentionally... That they wouldn't mind, or may even like to have a parasite leeching their energy supply and making them thin.

Thanks.

[invisible]

Never experienced a tapeworm. There are no dangers to eating raw meat.

[chucky]

From "QI" Chit-chat on tv: In the past, poor people have been the most susceptible to tapeworms. These people would be thin, despite eating lots of food. (This came about because they were discussing diet, and after seeing this effect, there were some rich people who wanted to be thin like the poor people, so consumed tapeworm eggs).

Does this not worry you, how many people had tape-worms, and how it affected them? It is just that I am worried that perhaps, the people here who are saying that tapeworms are not a problem, are saying so because they have similar mindsets to the people who consumed those eggs intentionally... That they wouldn't mind, or may even like to have a parasite leeching their energy supply and making them thin.

Thanks.

You have a good point about the tapeworm leeching the nutrients. Some rawfooders here have the mindset that parasites are good and even tapeworm is beneficial. If tapeworm robs our nutrients and makes us weaker how can it be good ? Or when tapeworm does make some good then is it's life cycle lessened when a person consumes raw zero carb or VLC.

I think The Bear said that inuits live to old age unless they are not killed by the accident or trichinosis.

[TylerDurden]

This is a stupid topic and being anti-parasite should be placed in hot topics. I'll do so now.

[miles]

If tapeworm robs our nutrients and makes us weaker how can it be good ? Or when tapeworm does make some good then is it's life cycle lessened when a person consumes raw zero carb or VLC.

+1 to that question.

This is a stupid topic and being anti-parasite should be placed in hot topics. I'll do so now.

I don't know why it's a stupid topic. I've never heard you talk about why tapeworms, specifically, are not a problem. I've only heard you talk of other, smaller parasites, which can't survive within the human body for long...

[TylerDurden]

Look, first off, parasites are so rarely got by raw-foodists that it's a non-issue(this is not surprising since domesticated animals are routinely dewormed by farmers in the west).And the few incidents reported were of a minor nature and occurred only in the tropics. tapeworms anyway aren't as dangerous as you claim and if they steal a few nutrients who cares, we're on a much healthier diet than sad.

[miles]

Why aren't they as dangerous as I claim? Could you explain this part?

[Hannibal]

I don't say that all the prarasites are beneficial. Besides, they all could be hostile if we eat unhealthy food.
The same is with salmonella - all the accidents that I hear in mass media happen to people who eat raw eggs once in the blue moon and their diet is very unhealthy.
Trichinella, Echinococcosis could be hostile to all of us, but we've got natural remedies for them - good quality clays, anti-parasite herbs, etc.

[TylerDurden]

Why aren't they as dangerous as I claim? Could you explain this part?

  Because 1) Rawpalaeos report few instances of getting them, and the tiny few that do report negligible side-effects such as parasites in stools.

2) The people who get nasty side-effects re food-poisoning/parasites tend overwhelmingly to be extremely unhealthy people on SAD diets. So it's just ridiculous and hysterical to go on and on about it when it's a non-issue among RPDers.

3) There are herbal medicines and drugs that get rid of parasites so again, if someone did get it, it would be easily sorted out, hardly something life-threatening like cancer.

[ys]

There is no conclusive data to say that Rawpalaeos get more or less parasitic infections than others.

No one ever did any kind of data collection or surveys to say raw meat eaters get more parasites, or less, or the same.  You can't rely on the reports from this forum because the number of subjects is really tiny.

And second, most parasitic infections are non-symptomatic and will never be reported.

It is OK to speculate one way or another, but it is foolish to bluntly state as it is some kind of fact.

To get some minimal results, one would get a group of 100 raw meat eaters and 100 non-raw eaters and for about 6 to 12 months analyze their stool for parasites and their eggs.  Only then you can draw meaningful conclusions.

But for now, who really knows?

[Neone]

You're probably suppsed to have worms and you're weird if you dont.

[miles]

Also, what about Toxoplasmosis?

"Ingestion of raw or partly cooked meat, especially pork, lamb, or venison containing Toxoplasma cysts."

"Correlations have been found between latent Toxoplasma infections and various characteristics:[23]
Decreased novelty-seeking behaviour[24]
Slower reactions
Lower rule-consciousness and greater jealousy (in men)[24]
Promiscuity and greater conscientiousness (in women)[24]"

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis

Damn I really want to stick with raw meat but each time, after a short run, I start thinking about stuff like this. When I start thinking this stuff it's hard to go and eat some raw meat, and the hungrier I get the harder it is to not have cooked. Then I regret it because it doesn't make me feel good afterwards.

[ys]

well, it is all in your head.

if you think that apple is bad for you, you will actually feel sick after eating it.
and if you think crap is good, chances are it won't do any harm.
you have to change your attitude.  negative attitude usually leads to failure.

i remember watching National Geographics where a guy on purpose swallowed tapeworm cyst he's taken from fresh meat at the market in Vietnam.  well, he did not develop a tapeworm.  my guess is his stomach acid took care of the cyst.

also, there are reports that freezing meat for some time kills tapeworm cysts.  there already been numerous discussions here regarding the subject.  search the forum for older posts for more info.

[van]

parasites do exist.  My dogs eating for over twelve years get tapeworms routinely. However, they also eat moles and groundsquirles that also routinely have fleas which carry tapeworm eggs.  There are different sources to get the many different varieties.  But I think Tyler is right when he expresses the risk is so low, don't worry.  Just make sure you're eating healthy meat.  Pasture fed animals have far less parasite infestation than pen or grain finished animals.  I've never heard it be a problem for anyone eating raw meat.  And if you should be the first one,  fine,  just take a pill and it's gone.  Then you can start to make plans as to how to avoid any future problems. 

[Hannibal]

Also, what about Toxoplasmosis?  

There's nothing to worry about.
"Up to one third of the world's human population is estimated to carry a Toxoplasma infection."
"the infection typically causes a mild flu-like illness or no illness"
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
When you eat bad food, takie antibotics, have got weak immune system, than it could be the case. But even then these microorganisms will eat the degenerative tissue and detoxify you body - although only when he/she will change their diet towards good quality raw food
if he/she will eat SAD, take antibiotics, etc. then this kind of infection could be fatal

[TylerDurden]

The toxoplasmosis parasite infects a 1/3 to a 1/2 of the world's population despite the fact that most people do not eat raw meats. In other words, cooking isn't an effective way to avoid it. Plus, it is an inactive parasite for the most part. The key thing to remember is that the environment is more important than any so-called pathogen. There are numerous reports re food-poisoning but no reports of such outbreaks among RPDers, same applies to parasites.

[TylerDurden]

There is no conclusive data to say that Rawpalaeos get more or less parasitic infections than others.

No one ever did any kind of data collection or surveys to say raw meat eaters get more parasites, or less, or the same.  You can't rely on the reports from this forum because the number of subjects is really tiny.

And second, most parasitic infections are non-symptomatic and will never be reported.

It is OK to speculate one way or another, but it is foolish to bluntly state as it is some kind of fact.

To get some minimal results, one would get a group of 100 raw meat eaters and 100 non-raw eaters and for about 6 to 12 months analyze their stool for parasites and their eggs.  Only then you can draw meaningful conclusions.

But for now, who really knows?

  I'm afraid that's quite mistaken. For one thing, when RPDers get nasty reactions to some food, ill-health or whatever, they tend to be very vocal and complain about it - a typical example being common gripes against raw dairy. By contrast to complaints about raw dairy, comments on symptoms from parasites are few and far between, and when they are reported, symptoms are overwhelmingly mentioned as being minor(ie parasites in stools mentioned, nothing more). If there really were vast parasite-outbreaks and related illness in the RVAF diet community, as claimed by the medical establishment, then we would have endless posts by now confirming this, as there are at least some parasites which do indeed induce symptoms.



Now, I don't discount the notion that we are infected with parasites but that they're not doing us any harm. That is entirely possible.

[TylerDurden]

The way I see it, there's no point in worrying re parasites as long as you don't experience any related symptoms. If one is overly hysteric re parasites, one could, of course, take some herbal anti-parasite combination or anti-parasite drugs every few months if one wanted to. Whatever the case, it's not something to be concerned about.

[cherimoya_kid]

Zephyr at Pangaia got a really bad trichinosis infection from eating raw wild mongoose gallbladder, and he had to take IV antibiotics to get over it.  However, that's the only case I know of among RPD-type eaters. I have read of a few cases of lung parasites from eating raw crab, but that's not even close to life-threatening.

[miles]

I don't just care about what's going to kill me... I don't want to be internally maimed, mentally/physically disabled/impaired, ill either frequently, or for an extended period of time, have to take poisons, etc...

[invisible]

I don't just care about what's going to kill me... I don't want to be internally maimed, mentally/physically disabled/impaired, ill either frequently, or for an extended period of time, have to take poisons, etc...

We believe raw meat does not contain any dangers regarding tapeworms, parasites, bacteria etc, If cooking your food will put your mind at ease, then do it. What more can be said?

[TylerDurden]

Zephyr at Pangaia got a really bad trichinosis infection from eating raw wild mongoose gallbladder, and he had to take IV antibiotics to get over it.  However, that's the only case I know of among RPD-type eaters. I have read of a few cases of lung parasites from eating raw crab, but that's not even close to life-threatening.

  I don't believe in the Zephyr story, to be honest. You see, Instinctos went through a period where they frowned on raw animal foods. Burger was one such example. So this may just be propaganda.

[TylerDurden]

We believe raw meat does not contain any dangers regarding tapeworms, parasites, bacteria etc, If cooking your food will put your mind at ease, then do it. What more can be said?

  Exactly. Most of us come to the rawpaleodiet in order to regain our health. Of course, we also come with previous phobias re bacteria/parasites, but the vast majority realise sooner or later that the latter phobias are groundless. If you feel your own health-problems are small enough to be solvable on a cooked-palaeodiet then I would suggest you become a member of cavemanforum or similiar cooked palaeo group. If on the other hand, your health-issues are truly serious, it would be wiser to just ignore such phobias, given others' experiences and try a rawpalaeodiet.

[roony]

I don't just care about what's going to kill me... I don't want to be internally maimed, mentally/physically disabled/impaired, ill either frequently, or for an extended period of time, have to take poisons, etc...

For the luv of gawd, go study some real bacterial or viral immunology

If you're stupid enough to believe our environment theoretically evolves according to natural selection & survival of the fittest, like the majority of science of today, then you're going to see crap like the dangers of toxoplasmosis


All bacteria & parasites exist to co-operate & exist with their hosts, not destroy them

What parasite or bacteria would be stupid enough to destroy their host?


Nature is far more intelligent then the stupidity of science & its many deranged theories


We exist because nature is co-operative, it co-opt's all life

[van]

It may be what you consider killing the host.  Try going to a medical library and look at the books on parasitology and look at some of the infested organs of humans.   It may change your opinion.