Tapeworms.

[miles]

So William, are you saying that: If you eat raw meat, you'll get parasites. Then, if you ever go back to cooked food you will die...?

I don't see why you'd really need parasites when you die... I'd just think that because your cells weren't being maintained any more, they'd be vulnerable to be digested. Like bacteria digests fruit when it gets weak.

If you get a parasite, which does the job of cleaning up your digestive system, or even your organs, then that is its' livelihood... If you stop giving it the toxins(what is toxic to you and food to the parasite) won't it release chemicals to make you feel bad for not eating those toxins? And if you don't give it its' food why won't it look for other food? i.e. you.

Does that have to mean it's a good thing that the sheep have those parasites in their brains, just because they do..?

The meningeal worm is an internal parasite (Paralaphostrongylus tenius) of the white-tailed deer that usually completes its life cycle in the deer without causing significant problems. However, when unnatural hosts, such as sheep and goats, become infested with meningeal worm, the parasite moves into the brain and/or spinal cord and causes neurological problems that can be fatal. Llamas and alpacas are even more susceptible to meningeal worm infection than sheep or goats. Cattle are not known to be affected.
-http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/deerworm.html

[goodsamaritan]

Anti parasite measures are plenty.

Herbal Dewormers work.  Beam Ray Machines work.  Zappers Work. Yes they do.

But you must make sure you clean up your colon and kidneys and liver because they will be doing extra work excreting the dead little bodies of the parasites.

Be armed and dangerous Miles.  Shoot them if you must.

[RawZi]

So William, are you saying that: If you eat raw meat, you'll get parasites. Then, if you ever go back to cooked food you will die...?

...

Does that have to mean it's a good thing that the sheep have those parasites in their brains, just because they do..?

The meningeal worm is an internal parasite (Paralaphostrongylus tenius) of the white-tailed deer that usually completes its life cycle in the deer without causing significant problems. However, when unnatural hosts, such as sheep and goats, become infested with meningeal worm, the parasite moves into the brain and/or spinal cord and causes neurological problems that can be fatal. Llamas and alpacas are even more susceptible to meningeal worm infection than sheep or goats. Cattle are not known to be affected.
-http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/deerworm.html

    That was my concern starting RAF, that once I start, if I started, could I ever go back without risking dangerous parasitic infection?  I didn't think so.  Now I think maybe it is possible, but possibly not, depends.

    Were the sheep and goats in the test groups eating the same as the deer in the test groups?

    I didn't like venison, I may try it again.  I bet, maybe, it can be really good for the nervous system in most people (raw of course).

    I read liver flukes from white tail deer in NC are a delicacy to toast on a stick and eat.

    

[miles]

yuck... That's dead liver flukes though.

[William]

So William, are you saying that: If you eat raw meat, you'll get parasites. Then, if you ever go back to cooked food you will die...?

If I were saying that, I would need to include Schrödinger's cat in my point of view, which cat is both dead and alive at the same time, since I have eaten cooked food  since starting raw.

Miles, just eat the stuff and be happy. Nobody is worrying about parasites, and after all, they may just be wrongly named. Some call them symbiotes; a better name IMHO.

[Sitting Coyote]

I don't know what it was... But in the lamb I was eating yesterday(raw) there were large cysts in the muscle and the fat(one in each). Within the suety muscle fat, there was a sack of soft whitish/light greyish mush; had some more solid things in amongst it... There was something similar in the muscle tissue as well, jelly-like mush, don't remember what colour.

How large are you talking?  Sounds like some sort of sarcosyst, a protozoan parasite that turns into a 1/2 inch or so cyst, usually in muscle tissue.  Check out this link (page down a bit) and let us know if this fits the bill:  http://instruction.cvhs.okstate.edu/kocan/vpar5333/deerpar.htm. 

You can do a Google search and see if there are species specific to domestic sheep, and see if you can find pictures.

[Spearhead]

Really this thread is disappointing as hell. I would think more people on here would be educated on the true nature of parasites. Tapeworms in my understanding are just janitorial parasites that feed on decaying material. Since people who eat cooked food are by default already ingesting decayed matter, they naturally don't get any nutrients and become skinny and emaciated. However this has nothing to do with someone on a raw diet who will benefit from having Tapeworms rapidly detoxify them while replenishing the body with vital living foods which are utilized in spite of the tapeworm, hence symbiosis.

Read my first posts on this forum, I used to be terrified I had parasites and was sure it was the cause for my problems. Actually, it is the exact opposite. My lab tests indicate I USED to have a parasite which I lost somewhere along the line (likely from pointless antiparasitical herbs) and since then I suspect I started my progressive decline. Now I am going through such horrible neurological/endocrine detox from 5 years of SSRIs that I've decided to deliberately infuse myself with the Trichinosis whipworm by eating pig intestines. Trichinosis is actually indigenous to primitive humans and serves as a digestive symbiont (not janitorial), taking our food and transforming it via its excretions into readily available nutrients at 50 times the rate of bacteria. I need this increased digestion to rapidly heal and help build my nervous system and glandular system which is currently suffering tremendously. This is not a "theory", trichinosis is supposed to be living in symbiosis with me. I fully expect that 10 days from now I will be reaping tremendous benefits. Does it make sense that we can eat high meat but parasites are still bad? Give me a break, the germ theory is not just bunk in regards to bacteria. It is bunk period.

Then again, I might be too toxic to form symbiosis. But I am not worried about getting upset stomach and diarrhea from it. The very notion is hilarious. Been there, done that.

[afroza]

That´s what I´m talking about, Spearhead says it all! And the rest of you can post any link you want on this parasite or that in this animal or that, we know that all animals are hosts to other spieces, call them parasites or not. The people doing the research in these links are all trained to be phobic of parasites and bacterias and the conclusions they draw from their data is probably much different than if a RAFoodist, or any other person with a different mindset, did the same research.
Sure you can poison your inner pets with herbs or zapper if you wan´t to (done that, yes it works), but why would you want that? It doesn´t make you healthier, quite the opposite.
For people with more free time and better speed then me can sure google for research on parasites and bacteria curing deadly diseases, cancers and others. There is lot´s out there.
And Miles, why I said parasites is good for us when we are dead is because otherwise the cemetarys would be a strange place, if all the corpses wheren´t eaten by our lovely worms and maggots. Even if you die in a sterile environment, with no incoming air our other means for pollutants, your body produces all parasites to make sure that there is nothing left but bones after a while. They get to it when your tissues are decaying, they don´t eat your healthy organs.
Love your parasites! They love you!

[Paleo Donk]

So what happens when these parasites eat all the bad shit inside you? If you are very sick, will they grow tremendously in size? And then when there is no bad tissue left, and you are on a raw diet which keeps you from producing bad tissue, do they start eating good tissue? Do they die? Just curious.

Spearman, let us know how your experiment goes!

[Spearhead]

So what happens when these parasites eat all the bad shit inside you? If you are very sick, will they grow tremendously in size? And then when there is no bad tissue left, and you are on a raw diet which keeps you from producing bad tissue, do they start eating good tissue? Do they die? Just curious.

Spearman, let us know how your experiment goes!

My understanding is the janitorial tapeworms will be passed when there is no more decaying matter, but given our societal toxicity, I think you'd have to live pretty much in the jungle to ever reach that point. The digestive symbionts are likely to stay on a permanent basis if there is not over toxicity and the diet is raw and healthy. I think in the experiments AV mentions, the people infused with the worms lost them after 5 months more than likely because of continuing to eat garbage cooked food which eventually overwhelmed the whipworm.

I'll write a report on the trichinosis but I want to wait until I feel the symbiotic response. No point beginning a journal only to fail to have them bind with me.

[van]

so what do you think;  my dogs have always eaten raw organic grass fed lamb and beef and eggs.  Always.  They get tapeworm every now and then.   From where and how have they accumulated their garbage?  Same with any wild animal eating natures foods only.    With sheep, their parasite load can weaken them to the point of exhaustion. And with aging goats the same is true, for their immune system is aging also.  The worms proliferate to the point that their hair thins and dries, they lose weight, and energy drops.   Yes, the strong will live on and their offspring will be probably more resistant to parasites. 

[William]

I think that turning grass into fat meat etc. is hard - hard on the immune system, so the worms to help. Then the  older the animal, weaker the immune system and more symbiotes needed. Eventually there are just too many symbiotes, then they act as parasites.
Something like that.

[Paleo Donk]

Coincidental, just got back from a friends house they had this recorded Dr. Oz show that they really wanted me to watch about parasites found in raw meats- tapeworms, roundworms and pinworms. Oz went on and on about how dangerous they looked without ever really mentioning anything that negative about them. One guy even voluntarily swallowed a tapeworm cyst and let it grow inside of him for a few weeks. He tooks some remedy and pooped it out. He had no symptoms of ill effects during the experiment.

Around 40 million in the US have had pinworms at one time or another and they don't seem to pose a threat.

Also, this is probably biased but Dr. Oz looks like a douche and has this annoying naaaasal tone.

[wodgina]

Saw The Aajonus episode on youtube,  we have this show in Australia now. Junk food for the brain.

[miles]

I was just thinking last night about how some people said that tapeworms can act as 'symbionts', helping with the digestion of food... But if everything you're eating is digestible by you, all they'll be doing is converting edible food in to waste, taking the energy from it... They wouldn't help with anything in the slightest.

[William]

I was just thinking last night about how some people said that tapeworms can act as 'symbionts', helping with the digestion of food... But if everything you're eating is digestible by you, all they'll be doing is converting edible food in to waste, taking the energy from it... They wouldn't help with anything in the slightest.

There appears to be no evidence that tapeworms exist in those who eat completely digestible food, such as raw pemmican. Maybe they just can't live in us; anyway they are certainly not a problem for us.

[RawZi]

There appears to be no evidence that tapeworms exist in those who eat completely digestible food, such as raw pemmican. ... they are certainly not a problem for us.

    Are you saying that they have to eat some completely digestible or pemmican or 100% of their diet has to be this?  Or that pemmican cures tapeworm infestation?  Did you have tapeworms before?  Could it be that people who eat a 100% pemmican diet were people that were not susceptible to tapeworms anyway (different body constitution-wise)?

[carnivore]

There appears to be no evidence that tapeworms exist in those who eat completely digestible food, such as raw pemmican. Maybe they just can't live in us; anyway they are certainly not a problem for us.

I am not convinced pemmican is a completely digestible food. Zero or almost no residue does not necessary mean 100% digestible as long as the food is not 100% raw. Some toxic components are taken up by the lymph (or other) system and does not end in the toilets but in the organs, skin, etc (cloging and disturbing the body)....

[William]

    Are you saying that they have to eat some completely digestible or pemmican or 100% of their diet has to be this?  Or that pemmican cures tapeworm infestation?  Did you have tapeworms before?  Could it be that people who eat a 100% pemmican diet were people that were not susceptible to tapeworms anyway (different body constitution-wise)?

What I wrote seemed clear at the time....

I am not convinced pemmican is a completely digestible food. Zero or almost no residue does not necessary mean 100% digestible as long as the food is not 100% raw.

It's all raw. Be happy.

[miles]

http://izismile.com/2009/09/09/the_tongue_eating_louse_is_a_gross_parasite_living_in_a_fishs_mouth_18_pics.html

Holy... Effing... Bujeebuss... What... The... Eff...

...

...

[Spearhead]

http://izismile.com/2009/09/09/the_tongue_eating_louse_is_a_gross_parasite_living_in_a_fishs_mouth_18_pics.html

Holy... Effing... Bujeebuss... What... The... Eff...

...

...

You're only reacting this way due to social conditioning. Symbiosis is a wonderful thing and benefits many lifeforms. Imagine, this fish can now get a direct injection of digested nutrients straight from its living tongue. It is likely much more vibrant and enjoys longer life from this relationship.

[miles]

But the parasite has made reactions between the chemicals in the food, which give it energy, but render it useless to the fish. The fish then gets the waste-products. For the faeces of the parasite to become useful again, they would have to be acted upon by bacteria/fungi, then taken up by plant-life which will not be present within the fish.

This wouldn't be the issue however in this case, but it could be relevant to large gut-parasites such as tape-worms in humans.

[RawZi]

    What are you eating?  How is it prepared?  What's the food's sources?

[miles]

Beef(100% fresh pasture fed), Beef(Supermarket 'Welsh'), Beef(Supermarket), Lamb(Supermarket 'Welsh'), Lamb(Supermarket 'British')

Raw, plain/unseasoned.

[Spearhead]

But the parasite has made reactions between the chemicals in the food, which give it energy, but render it useless to the fish. The fish then gets the waste-products. For the faeces of the parasite to become useful again, they would have to be acted upon by bacteria/fungi, then taken up by plant-life which will not be present within the fish.

This wouldn't be the issue however in this case, but it could be relevant to large gut-parasites such as tape-worms in humans.

Sorry I'm having a hard time understanding what you are writing here. Symbiont excrement serves as a more concentrated form of food, which our villi can immediately take up, no need for further bacterial digestion. This is why Aajonus recommends people eat shit from a healthy animal if they can't dissolve a tumor. They are injecting a wonderful concentration of nutrients in a brief period to finish the detoxification.

Anyways you are not distinguishing between janitorial and digestive symbionts (even though all worms perform both tasks), tapeworms are focused more on janitorial tasks rather than aiding digestion.

You really need to get over your phobia of nature, do you think a tapeworm would instinctively try to weaken its host and risk death? Don't be silly. They want nothing more than a vibrant healthy host, because that in turn helps them.