Heart Palpitations

[boxcarguy07]

Ever since I began eating such high amounts of meat I've started getting heart palpitations.
It's kind of scary, but doesn't seem to affect anything else.
In fact, it seems strange that the palpitations do not occur when I'm exercising.
I think it normally happens upon standing up from sitting down. My heart beat gets noticable stronger and faster. Sometimes its accompanied by a "strange" feeling, but the vast majority its not.

I can't help but be worried that its caused by eating so much fat... saturated fat especially. While I know saturated fat isn't the great evil some people would have people believe, too much can't be good right? I eat 3 lbs of fatty meat most days, is this just too much?


Before I started this diet, I believe I had low blood pressure... when I would stand up after lying/sitting down for a long time, I would get EXTREMELY light-headed and my vision would get covered up with grey spots. That hasn't happened since I changed my diet to what it's like now though. But these palpitations have got me kinda worried. In my search of this forum, I see Craig said he's had issues with this, and that it could be related to sodium? I don't think I have a sodium deficiency....

Any advice?

[Raw Kyle]

I sometimes feel an heart irregularity but it didn't start with this diet. It's very rare but my heart with feel strange all of a sudden as if it missed a beat.

I can tell you that I eat just as much fat if not more than you and haven't noticed anything like that. Raw saturated fat just simply does not cause any damage, period.

[akaikumo]

Are you eating any organ meats? If not, try adding them to your diet. It could clear up any deficiencies you might have, which might cause the palpitations.

[boxcarguy07]

yep, eating enough organs

[Satya]

Ever since I began eating such high amounts of meat I've started getting heart palpitations.
It's kind of scary, but doesn't seem to affect anything else.
In fact, it seems strange that the palpitations do not occur when I'm exercising.
I think it normally happens upon standing up from sitting down. My heart beat gets noticable stronger and faster. Sometimes its accompanied by a "strange" feeling, but the vast majority its not.

Keith, perhaps you will consider adding a listing of your food choices to your journal.  Not amounts necessarily, but a daily log of all foods eaten. 

I have had this before, but not for some time.  I have also had cramps in my heart where I feel like I can't breathe for the pain, and then with an inhale it clears itself.  Talk about scary.  I had that as a child even with no heart issues ever known then or since.  I felt this palpitation stuff more in my vegan years ... and liver issues too ... and fatness too.  Are you taking caffeine or alcohol at all?

I can't help but be worried that its caused by eating so much fat... saturated fat especially. While I know saturated fat isn't the great evil some people would have people believe, too much can't be good right? I eat 3 lbs of fatty meat most days, is this just too much?

No, I do not think it is the fat.  However, I have read that carbs and saturated fats (or maybe cholsterol) can be bad news for the heart/circulatory system when eaten together, but this would be things like bread and butter.  This comes from the work of biochemist Mary Enig, but I am afraid I don't know where.  Here is an extensive list of articles on fats, many written by her.
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

Also, I do not believe in a one-size-fits-all diet.  Maybe this is too much fat for YOU.  It certainly would not hurt for you to vary things and see how you fare.  Again, keeping an eye on food choices may well help you pinpoint any dietary triggers.  Finally, try eating some heart since doggy ate the spleen. 

Before I started this diet, I believe I had low blood pressure... when I would stand up after lying/sitting down for a long time, I would get EXTREMELY light-headed and my vision would get covered up with grey spots. That hasn't happened since I changed my diet to what it's like now though. But these palpitations have got me kinda worried. In my search of this forum, I see Craig said he's had issues with this, and that it could be related to sodium? I don't think I have a sodium deficiency....

I have low blood pressure and always have.  It ranges from 90/50 to 105/70, generally falling in the lower area.  Yes, I have grayed out and have had - what do they call it - orthostatic hypotension.  Yeah, that's it.  I dunno what to tell you, it comes and goes.  Let me look into it more and get back to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthostatic_hypotension -  the basics of what it is, I don't think heart palpitations are related, but you might search for a connection

[Satya]

Another thought:  The recommendation for so much fat is really important for the carnivorous, aka zero carb RPDers to avoid the rabbit starvation.  Lex, Craig, Nicola, Andrew, and some others are doing zero carb.  If you are eating 3 bananas and some other fruit every day, and you are happy with that, then there is probably no need for you to push 80% fat or even anything close to it.  Tyler, Lex, Craig and other more advanced RPDers than myself may have more to say on this, but it is a thought.

Also, I kinda like the warrior diet idea of light food all day and then a substantial meal at night.  Some may disagree with the idea of food combining, and I welcome all opposing views in the spirit of learning, but you might also try separating fruits from meats.

We are all so different!  Yet we have this common space to share ideas about and thrive on natural foods and lifestyles.  So cool.

[goodsamaritan]

I had some problems like that with some heart pain on and off last month.

I must have contracted parasites from my experiment with our not organic pork and probably infested with parasites pork.

Dr. Hulda Clark the ever parasite theory woman that she is said that they could be heart worms.
So I took my 1 tablespoon of DeWormer by http://www.Barefootherbalistmh.com and the next morning all heart pain was gone.

Good riddance to parasites.

Ever since I began eating such high amounts of meat I've started getting heart palpitations.
It's kind of scary, but doesn't seem to affect anything else.
In fact, it seems strange that the palpitations do not occur when I'm exercising.
I think it normally happens upon standing up from sitting down. My heart beat gets noticable stronger and faster. Sometimes its accompanied by a "strange" feeling, but the vast majority its not.

I can't help but be worried that its caused by eating so much fat... saturated fat especially. While I know saturated fat isn't the great evil some people would have people believe, too much can't be good right? I eat 3 lbs of fatty meat most days, is this just too much?


Before I started this diet, I believe I had low blood pressure... when I would stand up after lying/sitting down for a long time, I would get EXTREMELY light-headed and my vision would get covered up with grey spots. That hasn't happened since I changed my diet to what it's like now though. But these palpitations have got me kinda worried. In my search of this forum, I see Craig said he's had issues with this, and that it could be related to sodium? I don't think I have a sodium deficiency....

Any advice?

[boxcarguy07]

Keith, perhaps you will consider adding a listing of your food choices to your journal.  Not amounts necessarily, but a daily log of all foods eaten. 

Well, I usually don't deviate very much at all from what I listed in the first post, except that I do eat my meat with good amounts of organic kethchup... I've made the decision to stop buying and using this as I'm sure the extra refined sugars and salt aren't doing me any good. It's funny, the healthier I become, the more sensitive I am to the unhealthy things.

I have also had cramps in my heart where I feel like I can't breathe for the pain, and then with an inhale it clears itself.  Talk about scary.  I had that as a child even with no heart issues ever known then or since.  I felt this palpitation stuff more in my vegan years ... and liver issues too ... and fatness too.  Are you taking caffeine or alcohol at all?

Me too! I used to get that pretty frequently as a child... it would be an enormous cramp in my heart and I could not breathe because of how much it hurt, and the pain went away when I was finally able to get a deep breath. Hasn't happened in a great many years though, thank God. Oh, and I haven't had ANY caffeine or alcohol in years! Not a fan of alcohol at all...

No, I do not think it is the fat.  However, I have read that carbs and saturated fats (or maybe cholsterol) can be bad news for the heart/circulatory system when eaten together, but this would be things like bread and butter.  This comes from the work of biochemist Mary Enig, but I am afraid I don't know where.  Here is an extensive list of articles on fats, many written by her.
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

Also, I do not believe in a one-size-fits-all diet.  Maybe this is too much fat for YOU.  It certainly would not hurt for you to vary things and see how you fare.  Again, keeping an eye on food choices may well help you pinpoint any dietary triggers.  Finally, try eating some heart since doggy ate the spleen. 

I have low blood pressure and always have.  It ranges from 90/50 to 105/70, generally falling in the lower area.  Yes, I have grayed out and have had - what do they call it - orthostatic hypotension.  Yeah, that's it.  I dunno what to tell you, it comes and goes.  Let me look into it more and get back to you.

Well, like I said I have not had the dizziness or "graying out" at all since I started raw paleo, so don't break your neck looking for info if you don't want to!    And I can't be sure that I had low BP, that's just my guess because of the symptoms. I'm pretty sure every time I've been to a doctor it read normal, but come to think of it, I haven't had it read in a long time... I try to avoid doctors as much as possible  

Also, I kinda like the warrior diet idea of light food all day and then a substantial meal at night.  Some may disagree with the idea of food combining, and I welcome all opposing views in the spirit of learning, but you might also try separating fruits from meats.

As far as switching up the diet, I'm extremely happy with it so far minus the heart thing... the way I feel today compared to a couple months ago, both mentally and physically, is astonishing! I've tried the Warrior Diet style for a while and I do find that I do perfectly fine with multiple meals and food combining...
For right now, I've decided to do the following:
-chew my food better/eat more slowly... i find myself eating my meat so fast sometimes!
-get rid of that ketchup i'm eating my meat with
-become more regular with my consumption of cayenne pepper (a wonderful herb for heart health)

If I still am having problems after a while, I will look more into switching up my diet!

We are all so different!  Yet we have this common space to share ideas about and thrive on natural foods and lifestyles.  So cool.

Yes! Very cool indeed!  

[boxcarguy07]

I had some problems like that with some heart pain on and off last month.

I must have contracted parasites from my experiment with our not organic pork and probably infested with parasites pork.

Dr. Hulda Clark the ever parasite theory woman that she is said that they could be heart worms.
So I took my 1 tablespoon of DeWormer by http://www.Barefootherbalistmh.com and the next morning all heart pain was gone.

Good riddance to parasites.

I actually think I got a parasite a few weeks ago from eating some raw wild salmon that I bought from a grocery store... apparently almost all wild salmon carries parasites?

Anyway, I ate it then later that day I felt very nauseous. My mouth started salivating like CRAZY and I gagged a bit, and felt like I was ABOUT to throw up, but didn't. This repeated itself about once a day at random times for the next few days. It even happened in my sleep and I woke up because of it. I noticed allergies starting to come back as well. I started taking cayenne pepper again (I used to take it for allergies, but stopped needing it), to help with my allergies. It was around this time when I seriously was getting worried about the nausea I was experiencing and began wondering if I had a parasite. I read that cayenne pepper was really good to take to kill off parasites as well, so I was happy about that. From the first time I took the cayenne pepper I stopped getting those nauseous outbreaks!

Cayenne pepper seems to be good for lots of things!

[xylothrill]

That happened to me the first time I went all RAF. I'm not sure if it was palpitaitons or a rapid heart-beat but it wasn't pleasant. I attributed it to sodium deficiency but then Lex's heart rate rose temporarily when he increased his animal fat intake to 80% of calories so that could have been a factor as well. I hope this only a result of your transition and isn't serious.

As for blood pressure, it should go down with increased fat intake and decreased carb intake:

Excess insulin stimulates a wide variety of other metabolic systems: it encourages the kidneys to retain salt and fluid; it stimulates the production of cholesterol by the liver; it fuels an increase in triglyceride production; it thickens the muscular portion of the artery walls, increasing the risk for high blood pressure; and it sends a strong message to the fat cells to store incoming sugar and fat.

Insulin's actions are countered by the second metabolic hormone, glucagon. Glucagon sends signals to the kidneys to release excess salt and fluid, to the liver to slow down the production of cholesterol and triglycerides, to the artery wall to relax and drop blood pressure, and to the fat cells to release stored fat to be burned for energy. When insulin levels in the blood are high, however, they so overwhelm system that they suppress glucagon's actions.

From: http://drbass.com/eades.html

[boxcarguy07]

As for blood pressure, it should go down with increased fat intake and decreased carb intake:

Yeah, I don't have high BP but my mom does... I really wish she would listen when I tell her exactly what you just said!

[TylerDurden]

In the past I bought some supposedly wildcaught fish from supermarkets and I would get a vomiting reflex  in hindsight other wildcaught fish I ate was perfectly fine so I strongly suspect that those supermarket fish had been doused with some nasty chemicals in the process(indeed some of the fish definitely had a harsh chemical-like taste). I've never had a problem with raw seafood bought from reliable fishmongers.

Re heart-palpitations:- I had that before the diet, and it was one of the many adrenal-related symptoms I had.  I got rid of it after going rawpalaeo, but it returned when I started  zero-carb trials  and returned strongly but also temporarily when I ate some cooked suet(high in cooked saturated fat) as a short-term experiment. I don't think I've ever had a problem with raw saturated fat, but you could always experiment and see if less raw saturated fat works for you.


My suggestion would be to buy Dr Ron's adrenal supplement at this website:-

http://www.drrons.com/

It would of course be much better (and cheaper) if you bought raw adrenals direct from organic/grassfed farms like NorthStar Bison etc.


Re cayenne-pepper:- I used to douse my foods with cayenne-pepper/black pepper, garlic etc. when I first started this diet but I eventually realised it was all a waste of time, IMO, and gave them up with no resulting issues. *Just a thought - cayenne-pepper is a stimulant - could that be the reason for the heart-palpitations at all?*

[boxcarguy07]

I just wanted to report back that as of late, palpitations have not been a problem at all.
I resumed taking my daily drink of apple cider vinegar, baking soda, and cayenne pepper in the mornings and this has stopped the palpitations apparently. I stopped taking aforementioned drink at the advice of a fellow board-member, but I find that it is just too health-giving.

[boxcarguy07]

This is from Ted, a writer at www.earthclinic.com:

Apple cider vinegar (with appropriate buffers such as bicarbonate or baking soda) removes the body of lactic acid, which in excess kills the cells and causes heart problems.

Yes, yogurt causes heart palpitations because it has lactic acid. Lactic acid is peculiarly toxic to the cell's mitochrondria. Atheletes dread lactic acid buildup and wish one day they can rid of them. Well there is a remedy, it is the acetates (and can come from apple cider vinegar and the side effects are also reduced with citrates - from lemon and bicarbonates).

As a student when I studied biochemistry I would cringe at the idea of lactic acid. If I do a cell cultures, and use lactic acid as a pH to adjust to ideal biological conditions, the cell cultures would immediately die. This is a well known fact.

Since the heart is the source of constant energy, mitochrondrial health is extremely important. Lactic acid buildup intracellulary is dangerous, and this is why athletes have short lives - from long lactic acidosis causing muscular fatigue, thus heart attack is frequent.

In my opinion, magnesium acetate and potassium acetate are an ideal form, and this is found best whenever apple cider vinegar and baking soda is added. May I dare say that apple cider vinegar and baking soda is a food for the heart.

The other issue is the calcium buildup which causes the cells to function improperly. Usually a citrates, found in 8 teaspoons of lime juice (or lemon) plus 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda is taken reduces the serum calcium buildup which clogs the cells. This should also help.

The best detoxification of lactic acid is either sodium acetate, potassium acetate, magnesium acetate. These acetate forms are found whenever apple cider vinegar is taken, in any brand, and it is reacted with the body's bicarbonates to neutralize and convert to acetate. The cells use the acetate to rid the body of lactic acid. The problem about ridding the intracellular is half of the problem. The other is the body needs to neutralize the acid extracellularly also, which I think is best handled with baking soda and citrates (lemon juice). I remember that whenever a person has a heart attack, they use Harvey Teams (in hospitals) to inject a large syringe of baking soda. This is a quick remedy, but not a complete one. Acetates, magnesium, potassium, and bicarbonates is the preferred remedy to use, in my opinion anyway.

I recently have a friend who came to visit me one day and told me her heart had a terrible heart palpitations that she would nearly faint and breathing becomes a problem. I knew it was a simple electrolytic imbalance. After taking 1/16 teaspoon of potassium citrate, 1/16 sea salt, 1/16 teaspoon of magnesium chloride, and some sodium citrate, the conditions stopped within minutes and never came back.

People never realize that these electrolytes are the power cells that gives cells their electrical energy. In the olden days, they use salt with a cardboard in layers to create electricity (Alessandro Volta). If you have a multimeter, most salt solutions do have electricity. Usually it is about 1/2 volts, in case you are wondering. Just imagine what happens if the body's electrolytes are imbalance or lacking, the heart needs electrical energy for normal heart beat too."

[Satya]

I completely disagree with this author on his assessment of lactic acid.  Lactic acid is produced by lactobacteria in the intestines.  Eating lactic acid ferments like sauerkraut is not a bad thing.  Vinegar is the end product of alcoholic fermentation by yeasts.  The apple juice turns to hard cider and eventually to vinegar.  And that is neither good nor bad either necessarily (I consume wine myself).  But it is not like a yeast ferment like vinegar is a panacaea and the lactobacillus ferments are the devil (especially if you suffer candida or other yeast overgrowth problems).  In fact, I believe the body can use some lactic acid directly, whereas the mycotoxin alcohol and the acetic acid vinegar have to be decomposed and eliminated from the body.  Perhaps he is confusing the D lactic acid isomer, which is not good, with all lactic acid.  The biological isomer is L lactic acid.

"During power exercises such as sprinting, when the rate of demand for energy is high, lactate is produced faster than the ability of the tissues to remove it and lactate concentration begins to rise. This is a beneficial process since the regeneration of NAD+ ensures that energy production is maintained and exercise can continue. The increased lactate produced can be removed in a number of ways including

    * oxidation to pyruvate by well-oxygenated muscle cells which is then directly used to fuel the citric acid cycle
    * conversion to glucose via the Cori cycle in the liver through the process of gluconeogenesis.

"Contrary to popular belief, this increased concentration of lactate does not directly cause acidosis, nor is it responsible for delayed onset muscle soreness.[1] This is because lactate itself is not capable of releasing a proton, and secondly, the acidic form of lactate, lactic acid, cannot be formed under normal circumstances in human tissues. Analysis of the glycolytic pathway in humans indicates that there are not enough hydrogen ions present in the glycolytic intermediates to produce lactic or any other acid.

"The acidosis that is associated with increases in lactate concentration during heavy exercise arises from a separate reaction. When ATP is hydrolysed, a hydrogen ion is released. ATP-derived hydrogen ions are primarily responsible for the decrease in pH. During intense exercise, aerobic metabolism cannot produce ATP quickly enough to supply the demands of the muscle. As a result, anaerobic metabolism becomes the dominant energy producing pathway as it can form ATP at high rates. Due to the large amounts of ATP being produced and hydrolysed in a short period of time, the buffering systems of the tissues are overcome, causing pH to fall and creating a state of acidosis, a natural process which facilitates the easier dissociation of Oxyhaemoglobin and allows easier transfer of oxygen from the blood[2]."
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acid

[Satya]

But I do agree with taking electrolytes for heart health.  I hadn't remembered that, but in the past, when I had palpitations, getting extra potassium and magnesium always helped.

[protoject]

I actually think I got a parasite a few weeks ago from eating some raw wild salmon that I bought from a grocery store... apparently almost all wild salmon carries parasites?

Anyway, I ate it then later that day I felt very nauseous. My mouth started salivating like CRAZY and I gagged a bit, and felt like I was ABOUT to throw up, but didn't. This repeated itself about once a day at random times for the next few days. It even happened in my sleep and I woke up because of it. I noticed allergies starting to come back as well. I started taking cayenne pepper again (I used to take it for allergies, but stopped needing it), to help with my allergies. It was around this time when I seriously was getting worried about the nausea I was experiencing and began wondering if I had a parasite. I read that cayenne pepper was really good to take to kill off parasites as well, so I was happy about that. From the first time I took the cayenne pepper I stopped getting those nauseous outbreaks!

Cayenne pepper seems to be good for lots of things!

Dude, I totally got parasites when I used to eat a lot of raw wild salmon. I love salmon and I think it's one of the healthiest things, but I do remember that I had such a parasite overload that they were coming out in my Phlegm. I don't know what to think in cases like that, when I want to eat the healthier food! Do you think over time the body would adapt to the parasites, or are their some parasites we should just avoid?

[boxcarguy07]

No idea... I just know that since that happened, the thought of eating raw salmon now makes me feel a bit nauseous. It's quite a shame really, becuase salmon does have some nice EFAs to offer

[William]

But I do agree with taking electrolytes for heart health.  I hadn't remembered that, but in the past, when I had palpitations, getting extra potassium and magnesium always helped.

I am a member of the atrial fibrillation list at affibers.com, I don't have that but it seems that everyone else who has my kind of heart arrhythmia (psvt) is dead.
Those with afib who don't believe in drugs take potassium and magnesium and taurine. Taurine is in every muscle, but especially concentrated in the heart. So I got some raw heart, and eat it once in a while.
The other stuff should be in raw food, and I don't trust manmade supplements.

My guess is that the heart palpitations are caused by acidity. Hard to balance with the modern foods available.

[reyyzl]

    Do you ever eat unheated honey with your raw meat?  I do.  I used to get palpitations (undiagnosed), but eating this combination apparently helps me. I had anti-phospholipid syndrome, I think it's gone now, but haven't looked at any lab results in years. It has to be better, cause my doctor has tested me, and is unconcerned now.  I started eating the combination cause AV wrote in the Primal Diet book that it helps good microorganisms grow.  After doing it for a few months, I noticed the difference.  Then I read further in the book, and apparently this is a recipe good for strengthening the heart.

[William]

I have a bucket of honey because of the advice of AV, but no longer use any.
Never much liked the taste with meat, and digesting sweets/carbohydrates depletes potassium so can trigger heart problems. It also helps bad micro-organisms grow (candida).

I don't use medical tests for anything, since I learned that they don't test for intra-cellular minerals, and the normal blood tests then are deceptive.

[Roselene]

I have a bucket of honey because of the advice of AV, but no longer use any.
Never much liked the taste with meat, and digesting sweets/carbohydrates depletes potassium so can trigger heart problems. It also helps bad micro-organisms grow (candida).

I don't use medical tests for anything, since I learned that they don't test for intra-cellular minerals, and the normal blood tests then are deceptive.

Too bad.   You got heart problems and candida from eating it?  What kind is it?  Has it been warmed?  Maybe one of us wants your honey.  Raw honey can ferment if its moisture content is above a certain number, but it can never spoil from what I know so far.  Do you use it on cuts?

[reyyzl]

I have a bucket of honey because of the advice of AV, but no longer use any.
Never much liked the taste with meat, and digesting sweets/carbohydrates depletes potassium so can trigger heart problems. It also helps bad micro-organisms grow (candida).

I don't use medical tests for anything, since I learned that they don't test for intra-cellular minerals, and the normal blood tests then are deceptive.

    AV also recommends drinking about two quarts of fresh celery parsley zucchini juice every day.  Maybe his greens get rid of candida threats and potassium deficiency threats.

    Yes, medical tests are stupid and they take our blood and test it on rabbits and sheep (one's that have to be slaughtered just for this).  The laboratories have too many plastics and other stuff that's bad for the environment at their disposal.  But, if we show lab results as evidence, we may get somewhere with enough proof to put charlatan so called 'healers' a step lower than they are living now.

[William]

There is plenty of proof that raw paleo works, blood work has been done, however modern medicine lives in a world of its own, and has faith.
Tough luck for those who depend on it.

I did AV's recommended protocol, didn't work.
And the juice tasted bad. I trust my sense of taste more than any mortal man.

[reyyzl]

There is plenty of proof that raw paleo works, blood work has been done, however modern medicine lives in a world of its own, and has faith.
Tough luck for those who depend on it.

I did AV's recommended protocol, didn't work.
And the juice tasted bad. I trust my sense of taste more than any mortal man.

    Very tough luck for those who depend on it.  I know.  I don't try to prove it to myself.  I already know it's healthy.  That's why I started eating this way.  I already feel many results and look much better.  I try to appease my family.  They're sure high fat RAFs will do harm to my health.

    Most juices I cannot stand the flavors of.  I was lucky.  Aajonus not knowing me from a hole in the wall did my consult and recommended juices and fruit that I happen to love and no others.  Which ones did he recommend to you?  I was a member of the primaldiet ning group, and it seemed he recommended individual protocols to each and every member there (except the few who never read his book nor tried to go for a consult).  I apologize for sounding like he recommends the same exact flavors of juice every time.  In the ning group some people he recommended to only suck tomatoes, spread coconut cream on their lips or other things for thirst, I don't recall.  He did not prescribe any tomatoes nor coconut to me, which is good, I don't even like those plant foods.     

    I am happy to be here at RawPaleoForum.  I am just learning now.  I'm not paleo yet.  I have a so-called wine glass of raw milk in my hand with a teaspoon of unheated honey.  I am interested in trying paleo, I just don't know enough yet to feel like starting.