Do you live forever on a rpd?

[invisible]

But I'm talking about IF when you eat one meal a day that lasts couple of hours.
Besides mice aren't humans.
Once researchers fed rabbits with food rich in cholesterol and they've proven that it's disastrous to their health. But they didn't check that metabolism of rabbits is much different, re cholesterol, than humans.  

Firstly I doubt the cholesterol itself was the problem to the rabbits, likely the processed and rancid form it was in but that's a different topic.

Regarding humans and IF what studies are you talking about? The only studies I know of conducted on humans are the Mattson study which showed one meal a day not to be beneficial. http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/4/981

Although I actually agree with your opinion that IF is beneficial, it's just that there are not many studies done which actually show this. The meal in the Mattson study was a typical SAD high carb cooked food meal which I believe to be the problem. Carnivores fast, carb eaters eat frequently. The lower your carbs the less often you should eat.

The meal was also eaten at night; such a heavy, unhealthy meal eaten just before going to bed means the people would have been unable to sleep properly while on the diet. Perhaps moving the meal to the daytime would have made IF beneficial even despite the shocking food choice.

[William]

The meal was also eaten at night; such a heavy, unhealthy meal eaten just before going to bed means the people would have been unable to sleep properly while on the diet. Perhaps moving the meal to the daytime would have made IF beneficial even despite the shocking food choice.

Maybe, but a healthy snack before bed does not interfere with my sleep.
I define healthy as 1.5T pemmican mixed with 1t tallow and 1t ghee chased with a raw egg yolk.

[invisible]

Maybe, but a healthy snack before bed does not interfere with my sleep.
I define healthy as 1.5T pemmican mixed with 1t tallow and 1t ghee chased with a raw egg yolk.

I'm of the opinion that an entirely empty stomach is the best for sleep. Digestion interferes with sleep, so naturally an easily digested food would be the least troublesome.

[Hans89]

No male has ever lived past 115. Who knows if we can even digest raw food past a certain age.

That statement just can't hold water. There is no way of knowing that no male has ever lived past 115. I guess what you mean is that there is no evidence for this.

[Rawzilla]

 Oh I've just got to weigh in on this one...

First, to stay on topic, based on the assumption of compete application of my present state of knowledge, which I'm surely moving towards, my reaching 120 is feasible, given that the female record of 122.5 years wasn't based on CR or IF.

No male has ever lived past 115. Who knows if we can even digest raw food past a certain age.

It's actually closer to 116.  Pulling at straws here as there really is no way of knowing that no male has ever lived past 115/116 as many people born in the 19th century didn't have documentation, in other words, born free.
If you can't digest enzymes then your already dead .  A good place to begin : Enzyme Nutrition by Edward Howell

The Intermittant Fasting is proven to be better than simple CR.

APPEARS to be the case with animals, however limited human studies upon which "The Alternate-Day Diet by  James B. Johnson M.D." is based on, aren't conclusive based on careful examination of the data.  Keep in mind published research generally likes to draw conclusions that are in sync with the authors favoured hypothesis'.  Put another way: "If you torture the data enough they will confess"
This topic (ADF) deserves a thread of it's own which I shall do justice to soon enough...

[goodsamaritan]

I'm not counting on living forever by myself in my own body.
My idea of immortality is through children and other descendants.
I'll stay healthy and reproductive longer and be active enough to teach.
If I can pass on this knowledge, this habit of RPD then my descendants have a good shot at life.
I can see it already working with all 3 kids knowing by heart they can always turn to raw to cure their illnesses.

Got to get this ball rolling. Use RPD to multiply like rabbits and live long long like turtles.

[kurite]

I know this is not really related to the topic in full but heres an article on a jelly fish that is literally immortal.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2175134/Jellyfish-that-lives-forever-is-invading.html

[Seeker_1]

     Yeah immortality is a spiritual matter. The only documaneted cases are from ancient manuscripts of chinese hermits, daoist sages, martial arts masters, high priests, yogis, etc. To transcend death you must first transcend the world which means transcending the need to eat at all, so i think for 99% of the world immortality is out of the question unless you use the theory if the lightbody.
    As for extended age...well there's massive amounts of theories on that one, lol. I'll constantly use Luigi Cornalo as an example but there are certain things which are known as anti-aging which i'll list
1.) Raw Food Diet. Obviously some of the youngest looking old-heads are raw fooders. two examples off the top of my head are
Storm Talifero- http://thegardendiet.com/storm.html
Roger Haeska- http://rogerhaeske.com/
2.) Exercise- What makes the raw food diet work, imo, is exercise. Everyone who succeeds are usually very active, those who fail are the couch potatoes. exercises just conditions your body to work optimally imo.
3.) Internal energy work- Things like Tai-Chi, Yoga, Qi-gong, meditation and the like are definatly overlooked factors. I mean look at the yogis who end up living well past 100, martial artists too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU6MBn_nvaQ
4.)Non-ejaculatory sex. this is toated by daoist masters as a HUGE anti-aging agent. I know 2 practitioners of what's called "sexual kung-fu" who both eat a 100% cooked diet (TCM Practitioners) and are as young and healthy as raw foodists.
5.) Learning. A study done on brain placidity showed that keeping the mind active and continually learning new things and experiencing new things keeps the mind young which in turn keeps the body going.

Honestly I think daoists have the most comprehensive source of longevity. You can find books under search phrase "taoist immortals" and find a nice list of things that contribute to longevity from thier perspective. you'll note that the more you study diff cultures the more similarities you find.

[Hans89]

The only documaneted cases are from ancient manuscripts of chinese hermits, daoist sages, martial arts masters, high priests, yogis, etc.

If you want to count those as documented, you can also count in the ancestor tables in the Bible.

[Seeker_1]

haha, you're right, documented is a bad word. recorded should rather be used

[Hans89]

haha, you're right, documented is a bad word. recorded should rather be used

I find these records intriguing though. What if there was a time when people could reach such ages?
Or is it just legend, exaggeration or whatever.... Nobody knows and we'll never find out. What a shame.

[Hans89]

4.)Non-ejaculatory sex. this is toated by daoist masters as a HUGE anti-aging agent. I know 2 practitioners of what's called "sexual kung-fu" who both eat a 100% cooked diet (TCM Practitioners) and are as young and healthy as raw foodists.

Does it mean you should engage in sexual intercourse and avoid ejaculation, or does it simply mean don't ejaculate and whether you have sex or not doesn't matter?

[majormark]

    As for extended age...well there's massive amounts of theories on that one, lol. I'll constantly use Luigi Cornalo as an example but there are certain things which are known as anti-aging which i'll list
1.) Raw Food Diet. Obviously some of the youngest looking old-heads are raw fooders. two examples off the top of my head are
Storm Talifero- http://thegardendiet.com/storm.html
Roger Haeska- http://rogerhaeske.com/

The raw food diet is not the only thing that they do to stay healthy. If they would look like that just because of the diet, that would be more relevant.

It's interesting how some people can thrive as vegans (assuming they actually eat that way).

There is also calorie restriction btw.

I feel that all these things have more to do with improving the quality of life and the possibility to reach our maximum genetic potential, not necessary go beyond that potential (energy work may be an exception).

If I see someone hitting 200 while doing all those things, I may change my mind.

[Seeker_1]

Hans- The latter. Retention of a man's semen is viewed as retaining one's sexual energy or essence (jing). As for having sex it's best to do it as often as you can and for as long as you want (as you'll basically last forever anyway once you've mastered this). It's basically being able to separate orgasm from ejaculation (there IS a diff) and experiencing orgasm indefinatly. Eventually you learn to "move" this feeling around your body and up your spine along with some other fun exercises. You should look up mantak chia and tantra for more info. There's also a plethora of books on the topic.

majormark- The vegan phenomena is indeed an interesting one that still puzzles me. It's almost as if they've lowered thier need for nutrition in some way, because it's proven that there's not NEARLY enough nutrients in plant foods alone. Yet if you read ancient taoists master speak on diet they will say that the "enlightened" do not require animal products, but the non-enlightened do...which i found strange, what makes these "enlightened" peoples' bodies diff??? I too do not think a person of average consciousness can thrive on a vegan diet, but if there are exercises(physical, mental or otherwise) that can make that possible, this would be one hell of a discovery!

And yes calorie restriction and fasting too seem to add to the equation. I'm sure there's more i've left out, eventually i'll find it all. I want to travel the world in search of the oldest and healthiest societies and individuals to learn thier secrets. I'm also trying to find text on taoist sages to see if it describes any changes that take place (physically) with certain practices.

And also, yes, the raw food diet is only one component, and seemingly one of little importance compared to others. Again there are VERY healthy individuals out there who still eat cooked food, but use other practises to keep thier health in check. For example a creater of the liver flush, Andea Mortiz(spelling) seems to be in rather good health despite his nearly 100% cooked food diet. He uses colonics, liver flushes and herbs to protect and tone his body and organs, along with yoga as well. Ayurveda and TCM have been around for AWHILE, i'm sure there's more too them then we give credit for.

[Hans89]

And yes calorie restriction and fasting too seem to add to the equation. I'm sure there's more i've left out, eventually i'll find it all. I want to travel the world in search of the oldest and healthiest societies and individuals to learn thier secrets. I'm also trying to find text on taoist sages to see if it describes any changes that take place (physically) with certain practices.

Among the first books I read about alternative approaches to food / health was one by a Galina Schatalova (German spelling). I'm not sure if it is available in English. Anyhow, she describes her 'system of getting healthy naturally.' It's a combination of diet (almost vegan, some cooking), excercise like breathing technique from Mazdaznan, jogging, sun salutations, quigong standing like a tree etc., then some techniques for increasing tolerance to hot and cold temperatures.

 Her main point is that if you do these things, you need only 300-500ccal. She writes about experiments she did with super marathon runners on her system and crossing deserts with people whom she healed from cancer through her system.

 I read that she's kind of a celebrity in Russia... She supposedly was a surgeon for Russian astronauts before. But I couldn't find any more info about her on the web.

 Maybe she would be an interesting person for you to find on your trip around the world 

[KD]

Seeker, have you met these people?

I've met Roger, and there is no way he looks any younger than some others in their early 40's I've met who smoke, drink, are into drugs. consistant with many other fruit folks he had grey hair and nervous/angry temperment.

as for Storm/theGarden Diet AFAIK they kind of dropped out as gurus/influences awhile back in the raw-vegan community at a time when it would have been most lucrative. From a brief look he has had 2 blog posts in 2 years, no new photos in many years, and the last post which I remember reading 2 years ago was about needing cooked food to be balanced. So I'm somewhat suspcious they even do what they say. But I don't demonize the raw-vegan camps or am baffled by the physical possibility as I too have met people doing raw-vegan for decades who seem to be holding up fine physically, albiet thin, and possibly a little mentally off. These longer term people I've found to be much more involved in internal cleansing like colonics and denser eating. I think alot of health is in the cleansing of lymph and organs and so forth, and I think for many raw-veganism does not create this, and does't have the extra proteins and minerals etc in RAF to accomplish healing, but possibily can sustain others for many many years without breakdown. Other than that I don't think the real issue for vegans is defficiency per se because tons of people live to 100 eating supposedly little non corrupted nutrition according to both veg and omni raw camps and feel there are many more longevity tools that for some might not require raw eating.

[Seeker_1]

Hans- thx I'll look into this person and her system, it sounds interesting

KD- You bring up a good point, no i have not met these people, however i kinds got the feeling that roger was "easily exitable" from some email conversations we've had. He's turned his raw experience and knowledge into a marketing strategy. He was 3-4 diff websites and tons of products that personally i would teach for free if they really worked. For example i got his "Lightning Fitness Program" a long time ago and it consisted of two exercises that were well enough explained to try, one was running in place and the other was putting your hands on the floor and walking backwards up a wall . Though honestly i still think he looks young and he's fairly well built for a man who claims to eat nothing but fruit. However i'm afraid the raw vegan movemnt has become as a cult, similar to the "green" movement and thus is subject to "radicalists" who will be hyper regardless of thier diet. I know many campagners for greenpeace who ate a wide variety of diets, sum cooked sum raw, sum vegan, sum not...and they all acted like a typical raw vegan, very nervous, antsy, quick to speak but slow to think... Personally i think it has more to do with the mindset, the culture and the "image" involved rather than the nutrition (or lack of) that is the main factor influencing behaviour.

As for Storm he let out a new program 2 months or so ago that stressed the importance of an "100% raw diet". However I don't think they're in it for the money as Roger seems to be so i don't think they're going to keep making new products trying to say the same thing 5 billion ways. Also they seem much more calm and they actually eat alot of raw vegan fats such as OO, nuts, avocados, etc which i think is a crutial part. 80/10/10 is a trendy psuedo religion in my view, not a health promoting diet. But either way he did start showing signs of aging around his early 60s in the photos, though when i reach that age i wouldn't care how i look i'd care what i can do

And honestly with all of the research i've done I think veganism(raw) is nothing but a watered down fasting. I mean unless you're a sproutarian who then cooks...it's like impossible to get any nutrition. I mean the phytates alone in most greens are enough to create a defficiency if they're one of your main sources of food; most veggies and nuts are PACKED with phytates. On top of that you've got the plant fiber which can't digest; many of the nutrients are bound in the fiber and go unassimilated. Fruits i can see working, lettuces, grasses, etc seem to work. Nuts...in small quantities and especially if sprouted then ground and turned into nutmilk. But even then, i used to ground up chia seed into a powder, mix it with water and add raw honey. It worked out great until i realized the sharp chunks weren't getting digested and ended up getting my intestines literally cut up (there were traces of blood to verify). I think it verily DOES cause defficiency but they play off the symptoms as "detox". I say if people can live off of junk food and McDonalds for years and years and still appear in good health then so can a raw vegan, but eventually they'll have to face the consequences of thier choices.

Though veganism seems to work as a transition to a transendental state of consciousness it does not work as a long-term health promoting diet in and of itself. Thats where i stand personally.
     

[Raw Kyle]

Lots of people live a long time with diseases. I see the most likely thing to happen on rpd or a similar regimen being a normal lifespan, maybe towards the higher edge of today's average, but with no crippling diseases at the end of life. I know that a lot of fringe diets like this attract people with a romantic view of ancient people living forever in perfect health and other such notions, but that doesn't ring true to me. There are plenty of humans today who live much closer to paleolithic lifestyles than any of us ever will, and none of them has been known to live forever, or even markedly longer than an average human in an industrialized nation.

On a more philosophical note I see obsessing over life span as trying to desperately hold onto something. Like people who get surgery to stay looking how they did at a certain age. These attempts usually end up grotesquely, with the person looking like something entirely different. I think obsessing over life span could easily end up with someone limiting their life so much that span doesn't even matter anymore. Living in a bubble, avoiding risky activities. Becoming a prisoner of the rules you put on your body in order to keep it, protecting yourself against yourself. I don't see this as a healthy mental direction.

[leanne]

Non ejactulatory sex? I kick my partners in the balls if they ever tried that one!  

I wont live for ever and nobody else will either! We are here for a good time not a long time!

As a women, I find it very natural to feel a man's ejactulation come inside me.

Also I learnt that in TCM, mens semen is actually a health tonic for women if consumed orally and not exposed to air or light. If you know what I mean..

I make sure my men are eating lots of organic kipfler potatoes and flaxseeds (builds semen) a few days before they come over my place. No pun intended.

Hey, this is called 'hot topics' after all!

[Seeker_1]

Raw Kyle- Many people live long times with diseases because of modern medicine. Before modern medicine the lifespan was MUCH lower for the ones with serious uncurable (for thier time and limited knowledge) diseases. Don't let diet become a religion, no diet is a cure-all or ultimate protection from all unwanted conditions. Diet and the concept of immortality are completely unrelated, even though this is a diet forum (lol). I really don't feel like defending the concept of immortality or even unnaturally long lifespans, cause ultimatly talk is cheap, but i'll try to have some fun
   Try to conceptualize someone with an extremely long life. Think about how abnormal it would make one seem, how much attention they would get in the news and the media and especially how much attention they'd get from scientists. I pose that if anyone COULD reach this state they wouldn't want it to be known to the common public. Think if the government got a hold of them and decided to do crazy tests to try to find his secret or take samples of his DNA to try and make a tonic out of it and splice people with this person's genes to extend lifespans.
    Plus as we all know diet alone cannot extend life, it can only ward off disease and premature death, so saying rpd or anyother diet is the way to do it is silly. Even a restricted calorie raw vegan diet (which for sum reason has a spiritual undertone) would harldy increase lifespan. No average person who is a regular part of society could possibly achieve such a state as society tends to breed unhealthy behaviours (depending on your view of what health means; and yes it's subjective). It's similar to holding your breath for long stretches, lifting cars, and other great acts; you cannot look at the common public as examples for greatness because none of us seem to be concerned with bettering ourselves and realizing our potential or finding truth through scientific method...

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance... That principle is condemnation before investigation.

The greatest quote of all time for the true seeker.

And you're rite, obsessing over lifespan is attachment to the self, usually comes from the great love of self. Similar to if you love your spouse or your child you are attached to them and don't want them to leave. If you truely love yourself then death is a legitimate fear/attachemtn if you believe that the "you" you identify yourself as disappears after death. Why even attach yourself to anything in this world? Why obsess over a job? why obsess over a family? why obsess over anything? because we desire them and if there's a risk of losing them we want to do our very best to ensure protecting them, even if for selfish reasons. Could a mother kill her son even if it would save him from agony? something to ponder.
As for being a prisoner of rules, i too dislike that idea, however rules give structure, which is pleasant, at least to me. Without rules we'd live in our dreams. We are all bound by the laws of nature, the laws of science. It is by these laws that all discovery must be made in this world. It is a great discovery that by not cooking your food you can live in better health, however what else is possible in these rules? We'l never find out unless we never stop trying.

leanne-...thanks for sharing your opinions. Also flaxseed build semen through zinc aminos and sugars mostly. Raw oysters are a superior way to build semen if you'd like to give it a shot, it'll give him a full load within hours if thats what gets you off.
     Non-ejaculatory sex is more of a spiritual thing and also it allows the man to orgasm multiple times until he's satisfied and then CHOOSE to ejaculate or not. It's basically Mastering a system of your body, not limiting it. Just thought i'd make sure that be understood in case of any misconceptions.

[leanne]

Seeker, Im not sure what the oysters are like where you are but in Australia they are really heavy in heavy metals like mercury, strontium. I dont want to swallow heavy metals in my health tonic.

I think its unatural to hold onto to something the body wants to release, and besides, thats no fun!

[KD]

Seeker: there is a book Breaking The Death Habit by Leonard Orr which you might be interested in. He quotes a number of these 'immortalists' which are basically living in secluded villages for the reasons you mention. He goes into quite a bit of detail in terms of strategy. Even if it is all bogus its still a fascinating read. Vegetarianism is a prerequisite for Orr, as it borrows alot from yogic traditions.

leanne : not that your preference is at all strange, but why would that matter re: your own orgasm? For myself I don't climax inside as I'm not using any kind of contraceptive, and therefore by the time I'm ready she better be good or I'm in trouble. Since you are pretty revealing, I hope its not intrusive to ask what are you doing as far as contraceptive?

My personal opinion is that withholding orgasm for extended periods (or abstaining entirely from any activity) is probably essential for vegans and vegetarians, or for people who are very ill. as AV states for healthy eaters this becomes less or moot issue, although I suspect it can still be beneficial. I've heard randomly that getting a vasectomy produces the same results, so while I can see it having benefit for the spiritual seeker like any kind of asceticism, I believe it rests almost entirely in the physical.

[Seeker_1]

KD- thank you for the resource and the absence of attack on my charactor...i have to admit that took be aback

leanne- your right, i had overlooked that fact. Personally i would choose beef or perhaps wild game meat for zinc merely because pumpkin seeds, although the highest concentration of vegetarian zinc, are hard to digest and contain many antinutrients unless germinated. Red meat also seems to have an "x factor" in libido. There was a study done comparing vegetarians and omnivores. They found that with the comsumption of RED meat (those who ate chiaken but no beef didn't have this trait) had a stronger DESIRE for sex, although thier performance was equal. i've never noticed that in me, but it's interesting to note. I personally find raw dariy to be the best recovery in terms of semen and sexual energy but my body's fucked up so...yeah

[goodsamaritan]

x-factor libido is of prime importance.
gotta want sex to make them babies to live "forever"

[TylerDurden]

Just for the record "leeanne" is of course talking utter b*ll*cks  re mercury in oysters. As shown on the fishscam.com website and the Seychelles study, already previously referenced here numerous times, there is no danger from mercury in seafood, raw or otherwise.

Edit*Leeanne, it appears is just the raw vegan troll durianrider or his girlfriend, so it's unsurprising that he/she would recommend against raw fish. Mindless moron. He really needs some healthy nutrients from (raw) animal foods so as to help nourish his brain more.*