Getting started with RAW... Safety…How, what? help

[MaryC]

Well I’m ready, I’ve been carnivore for quite a while and I’m kind of sick of steak prices, seriously is insane here in Australia, so i'm gonna cut on them and move to ground beef... Problem? I hate it cooked, I’ve eaten it raw before cause my parents are middle eastern so I used to eat it a lot, but mixed with wheat 

Now, i didn’t even know where my dad used to get the meat from, they used to say they had a reliable butcher "cause if you gonna eat raw meat you have to make sure is fresh, clean, etc, etc, etc"

I get my meat from the supermarket, is it safe? or  should i find a butcher, ask him if the meat is fresh, ask the cow's name, ID, nationality, etc -_-! sorry…

No, seriously is it dangerous if it is not so fresh? (ok I’ll find out the day when they usually stock) do i have to freeze it for 24hrs? (that's what my mum used to do)?? ?

PS. Don’t make fun of me for knowing nothing about food  , it’s because I used to say "the day i move out i'd live on wholegrain sandwiches and skim yogurt with granola 

[wodgina]

If you don't mind grain finished you can get steaks really cheap. $9 kg for sirloin in bulk here in Oz, it bugs me when I hear people complain meats expensive here. I could walk down the road right now and buy a roast for $7kg and fatty mince for $2kg. Anyway mince is just steaks which have gone through a grinder.

Good luck.

[MaryC]

If you don't mind grain finished you can get steaks really cheap. $9 kg for sirloin in bulk here in Oz, it bugs me when I hear people complain meats expensive here. I could walk down the road right now and buy a roast for $7kg and fatty mince for $2kg. Anyway mince is just steaks which have gone through a grinder.

Good luck.

  Where?

See what i mean when i say i know nothing xD The cheapest steak I’ve found is 17 per kg and it was really cheap comparing to what i usually pay, that's why i don’t have to count calories, just count price 

[pc701]

I recommend you eat frozen wild fish rather than feedlot beef.I think the price would be around the same,at least in my area it is.

[wodgina]

I recommend you eat frozen wild fish rather than feedlot beef.I think the price would be around the same,at least in my area it is.

You have obviously never tried an RPD diet because you would know eating just fish doesnt fill you up. You need neolithic foods such as taro, rice or sugar bombs with your low fat fish.

[pc701]

That's why one should add egg yolks and/or bone marrow as a fat source.

[William]

No, seriously is it dangerous if it is not so fresh? (ok I’ll find out the day when they usually stock) do i have to freeze it for 24hrs? (that's what my mum used to do)?? ?

No, but fresh tastes better to me.
Freezing not necessary, but most of what I grind I freeze for keeping.

I suggest you do what some of us do, and buy a good meat grinder and use cheap roasts.

[wodgina]

That's why one should add egg yolks and/or bone marrow as a fat source.

Previously you claimed tropical fruit and fish was the perfect paleo diet. Bone marrow isn't from fish and is really the most expensive fat. Egg yolks are the same as fish they just don't fill you up.

[pc701]

Frozen wild fish is superior to fresh grain fed beef I think. Eating that along with some egg yolks and bone marrow will fill one up. Aajonus said he met one tribe in the philipines that ate 100% raw food, they ate fish coconuts and some fruit. Would you like to live like those people or live in cold harsh climates like the eskimoes do?

[wodgina]

Frozen wild fish is superior to fresh grain fed beef I think. Eating that along with some egg yolks and bone marrow will fill one up. Aajonus said he met one tribe in the philipines that ate 100% raw food, they ate fish coconuts and some fruit. Would you like to live like those people or live in cold harsh climates like the eskimoes do?

Did Eskimoes find their environment harsh? 

[goodsamaritan]

Frozen wild fish is superior to fresh grain fed beef I think. Eating that along with some egg yolks and bone marrow will fill one up. Aajonus said he met one tribe in the philipines that ate 100% raw food, they ate fish coconuts and some fruit. Would you like to live like those people or live in cold harsh climates like the eskimoes do?

If you can point me to the name and location of that Philippine tribe Aajonus is talking about I will visit them to verify these claims.

[pc701]

Sorry I can't,that is what he said when I went to his workshop,all I can say is ask him.

[Nation]

If you can point me to the name and location of that Philippine tribe Aajonus is talking about I will visit them to verify these claims.

Did you ever visit any indigenous tribes? How's that like?

[KD]

not that it really matters, but doesn't Aajonus specifically say never to eat frozen fish? I know he is against pretty much any frozen meat, and yet claims to consume supermarket meat in inopportune times. I think also he's known to eat up to 3 lbs of fish per day with dairy fat which would fill me up, but I doubt he would think a diet of fish, eggs and marrow, for a western toxic person, would be very healthy.  I personally agree somewhat if you are comparing frozen fish with supermarket meat, but I'm 50/50 on raw hormone free meat from WF vs. raw wild frozen fish, which I see as somewhat dodgy.

[miles]

I don't know at what point it becomes genuinely 'dangerous', but it's better to have the meat fresh. It will upset your system the more off the meat is, which will decrease your appetite for a while and may cause fever/diahrrea etc... Meat which would cause this should taste bad in the first place, but if you go ahead and eat it, feel bad and make sure not to eat such off-meat again you should be fine. The excess-bacteria can cause you problems, acid-resistant bacteria can survive the stomach and assault the organs adjoining the intestines. I think after a minor incident your body should recover after feeling dodgy for a bit, a more serious incident can push your body to more extreme measures of cleansing such as diahrrea(to flush out)/fever(to cook/kill). I don't know how off the food would have to be to be truly dangerous. Dangerous I would think is anything which would cause long-term problems. Ground beef is damaged meat and more exposed to bacteria, so will go off faster. Similarly, when liquid in the meat crystallises upon freezing this damages the meat, bursting the cells and exposing them to bacteria. Also, besides this, the older the meat gets the more of it's nutritional value it loses. I don't know how much of this is just 'lost', but bacteria will also decrease it. They are 'eating' the meat and excreting waste, the waste is what causes the nasty smell. The waste is much less useful than the fresh. I don't know however, whether the waste in itself would be harmful, or if it's simply a marker our body recognises and uses to warn us of bacteria(by recognising it as a bad smell).

I'm actually experiencing the decreased appetite, and increased queasiness regarding any animal product which could possibly be less fresh at the moment. I have some fat-scraps for example from my butcher which he gave me out of something looking like a bin, and he made sure it was 'for the birds'. Now this looks and smells fresh in general but I'm fairly queasy already and very cautiois. This is because my body has already been weakened by eating off-mince, the decreasing freshness of which I had previously mentioned being concerned about in another thread. This mince smelled and tasted bad from the first day I got it, and continued to increase in rancidity. So if you follow your senses you should be fine, and your body has defence mechanisms(fever, diahrrea etc) to fall back on if you slip up. You can eat some really off food(which you have to go against your basal instincts to do in the first place), much worse than anything I've had  and recover. Some people even purposefully eat off-meat as they want to cleanse their bodies(through diahrrea etc). What they don't seem to realise however is they they're cleansing their bodies of the 'bad stuff' in the off-meat. They will say that it is good because they feel better after they're done cleansing. 'Well no shit!' You feel good; you eat bad stuff; you feel really bad; your body goes through process to make it better; you feel good, which is a hell of a lot better than feeling really bad. Whereas before you were used to feeling good.

Sign out.

[PaleoPhil]

I recommend you eat frozen wild fish rather than feedlot beef.I think the price would be around the same,at least in my area it is.

The prices of wild fish in my area tend to be 2, 3 or more times as expensive as the grassfed beef. It could be because I live in a landlocked area.

MaryC, I think you may need to ask around or look around. I found one good source in my area very close to me that is a healthfood store that sells 100% grassfed ground beef at reasonable prices and 100% grassfed suet fairly cheap (cheaper than online). They also have grassfed beef organs like liver, fertilized chicken eggs, quail eggs, etc. I also earn $15 credits from a local program for walking to work that I can use at another healthfood market that's not as good but has inexpensive venison.

But one thing we've found is that the variations between nations and even within nations can be dramatic, so you'll need to do some exploring in your area.

[MaryC]

Awesome guys, Thanks

I really really agree with fish not filling me up.... i mean i can eat 3000 calories worth of salmon (mostly fat cause i eat toasted skin- yeah I know mercury, I cant help it) and after 3 hours, no matter what I’m craving more food. With beef, even if i just ate 800-1000 cals is enough to keep me going for hours. Don’t take me wrong, i love fish, but it has to be part of my meal, not my meal 

About grass fed, i think most  Australian meat is grass fed, i might be wrong but i recall reading that somewhere.

Ok i'll make sure to keep my eyes open when buying, try to get it really fresh so i don’t get poisoned.... Well at least is not that bad, i thought it would kill me but if it’s just going to make me sick for a couple of days, i'll take the risk... couple of days free from work 

PS. I love how anything in these kind of paleo forums ends with "Can you give me the references?" lol

[invisible]

About grass fed, i think most  Australian meat is grass fed, i might be wrong but i recall reading that somewhere.

All grain fed unfortunately. It's fine to eat though, but grass fed is better if you can get it from a farm or certain shops. Grass fed beef is marketed as a 'low fat health food' so forget about getting any fatty cuts from a shop you'll have to contact a farmer to get fat, and then they will not sell it to you because fat's unhealthy and they are concerned that you buy so much  . Way to go FDA.

[PaleoPhil]

Just tell them it's for your dog and/or the birds in your backyard.

[miles]

Then they purposefully treat it badly for the sake of it.

[PaleoPhil]

Wow, that's bizarre. Never mind then.

[MaryC]

All grain fed unfortunately. It's fine to eat though, but grass fed is better if you can get it from a farm or certain shops. Grass fed beef is marketed as a 'low fat health food' so forget about getting any fatty cuts from a shop you'll have to contact a farmer to get fat, and then they will not sell it to you because fat's unhealthy and they are concerned that you buy so much . Way to go FDA.

Is it?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??   

Well then i guess I'll keep eating grain fed, I'm a broken overseas student, univ and accommodation are expensive enough 

This morning i found an Asian butcher with very, i mean VERY, good prices (the meat looked clean and fresh) I'd normally think "oh it might be because is grain fed" but now you're saying it's All grain fed   

[invisible]

Is it?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??  

Well then i guess I'll keep eating grain fed, I'm a broken overseas student, univ and accommodation are expensive enough  

This morning i found an Asian butcher with very, i mean VERY, good prices (the meat looked clean and fresh) I'd normally think "oh it might be because is grain fed" but now you're saying it's All grain fed  

Yeah the cheap prices is probably because it's from an older cow, or the store just uses low prices to attract customers. The more expensive meat is exactly the same quality (nutritionally), unless the higher price is because it's grass fed, and in that case it will specifically say it is grass fed.

Although I'm not sure some country towns might have grass fed as standard, but seeing as you're a uni student you are definitely in the city (Sydney?) so meat is grain fed 100% of the time unless stated otherwise.

[wodgina]

Yeah the cheap prices is probably because it's from an older cow, or the store just uses low prices to attract customers. The more expensive meat is exactly the same quality (nutritionally), unless the higher price is because it's grass fed, and in that case it will specifically say it is grass fed.

Although I'm not sure some country towns might have grass fed as standard, but seeing as you're a uni student you are definitely in the city (Sydney?) so meat is grain fed 100% of the time unless stated otherwise.

I don't know much about Sydney but the rest of Oz generally beef is grass fed then grain finished. Sometimes of the year no grain is used if the beef is fat enough. I don't know of any beef fed 100% grain in fact I'm in cattle country right now and there's plenty of grass eating.

[invisible]

I don't know much about Sydney but the rest of Oz generally beef is grass fed then grain finished. Sometimes of the year no grain is used if the beef is fat enough. I don't know of any beef fed 100% grain in fact I'm in cattle country right now and there's plenty of grass eating.

Actually that's what I meant grain finished. I think most people use 'grain-fed' referring to grain finished? But the benefits of grass fed beef and the omega fat ratio etc is lost even if the cow is only finished on grain and not fed grain its entire life.