Cooked Starches

[Ioanna]

prior to the above i had tried rendering the fat as tradition... i used the lowest oven setting (200F) with the door widely open, so i don't know the actual temp of the fat... this was disastrous, hence the above..

i was convinced pemmican was going to be my miracle food as supposedly even a child can eat as a first food... quite the contrary in my case!

[cliff]

Thanks for chiming in cliff - I've been thinking about long-soaking the tubers etc., so you've given me a nice cue. Do you have experience with fermenting starches, particularly roots/tubers (as opposed to grains) and do you simply long-soak them?

I personally buy my bread from a baker who ferments the dough for 1 month. 

Aborigines in Australia bury sweet potato's to allow them to ferment before eating them.  Not too sure on other traditional peoples methods but I'm sure many have experimented or utilize fermented tubers/roots etc.

[KD]

I think roots are common in some kimchi's

heres one I found quickly

http://weirdcombinations.com/2009/11/root-vegetable-kimchi/


perhaps one could use other roots as well. Carrots and beets for sure.

[miles]

I'd think before accepting the words of 'a man with a seagull on his head', he's bound to be talking crap at least some of the time... But yeah, in the olden days they used to put all grains through a lot of processing before they'd eat them. Soaking, Heat, Fermentation etc...

[William]

why is this brave?... it's the most raw version of pemmican i could think of...

Unlike Tyler, I respect the wisdom of those who made pemmican for generations, and think that they made it safe. I never read that the traditional pemmican hurt anyone.

prior to the above i had tried rendering the fat as tradition... i used the lowest oven setting (200F) with the door widely open, so i don't know the actual temp of the fat... this was disastrous, hence the above..

delfuego tried that too - didn't work for him either, he didn't say why. I tried rendering in oven at low temperature of 170F, and the fat just rotted. Horrible smell. Threw it out. My guess was that this was caused by uneven heating, so some of it didn't get hot enough quick enough to stop microbial action.
I assume from that that fat is more perishable than anyone tells.

i was convinced pemmican was going to be my miracle food as supposedly even a child can eat as a first food... quite the contrary in my case!

I thought they were talking about raw meat chewed by Mother to a paste.
It is and has been a miracle food for me, but I don't believe that any of us are making it quite the same as the Indians did. The only descriptions I can think of are by Stefansson, the gov't. employed a male historian who read descriptions by Hudson's Bay factors, not the sort of people who appreciated the fine art of making food-as-medicine.

People write that jerky made in  a Lex box tastes better than that in an Excalibur dryer; Satya, being married to an electronics engineer, thought to measure the electromagnetic field around her Excalibur dryer, and found a very intense field, so I did the same (I have a Gauss meter). My meter screams and the needle pegs when in the dryer. Same when I turn on my oven.
In comparison, the heat source in a Lex dryer shows practically zero reading of EM radiation, so the jerky made in a Lex box should be the most similar to that made by Indians.

I intend to rebuild my Lex dryer, and use it instead of the Excalibur.
Don't yet know what to do rendering tallow without EM radiation, maybe use my camping propane stove...



Note that Olle Johanssen at the Karolinska Institute, Sweden, found that man-made electromagnetic radiation is bad. All of it, IIRC.

The more I learn, the more I learn that there is more to learn.  

[leanne]

This was a post by that retarded raw vegan troll, DurianRider, so has been deleted. Since cherimoya has quoted your post, I should add that AV has long since changed his recommendations re a few occasional cooked starches for some  rare individuals and now recommends all-raw instead, for everyone.*TylerDurden

[KD]

So anyone out there that follows AV like I do and thinks you have to be 100% raw and feeling crap, then please take AV's advice and read his books again, preferably with some local organic french sticks and raw honey!  

Don't bakers almost always use salt? Also, do you have a protocol regarding digestion times before eating meat again?

[cherimoya_kid]

I eat baked potatoes daily and often rice, boiled corn and bananas and dates. ALWAYS ORGANIC. no salt or oil.

I went to Aajonus's talk last year in Australia and he said its fine to eat cooked starches BUT!!!, ONLY if you crave them. The audience was suprised and then AV said 'you Aussies obviously have not read by book 'we want to live' or you havent read it properly!! Please read it over and in more detail and you will understand this concept better'...AV said it all with charm and gently. A lot of us had been trying to be 100% raw and just feeling so weak and depressed because we thought we couldnt eat cooked starches. That night, for a few of that stayed overnight, AV organised some raw honey, organic white bread baguettes, lots of unsalted raw butter. We had a primal french stick party!  AV didnt eat any cos he was violently ill and spent the night in the bath tub vomiting and with diaoreaha unfortunately. We all had our own versions of why that was.

I felt so relieved that I didnt have to be so rigid and carb phobic and now that I eat more cooked starches and less meat, I feel way better off and I have lost the spare tyre around my mid section and have put on more muscle from the gym workouts due to being more 'carbed' up and being able to train harder. Health wise I dont have the bloating and constipation that the low fiber version of paleo gives. High fiber paleo works way better if you want a slim, muscular and tight body.AV said that some people just simply do better on low processed cooked starches like organic potatoes, millet, corn etc.

Good luck preaching that stuff around here.  Generally, we get our carbs from fruit, raw honey, and liver.

[Hans89]

Don't bakers almost always use salt? Also, do you have a protocol regarding digestion times before eating meat again?

Aajonus writes that because of the gluten, the salt is hardly absorbed. He doesn't specify the time after which you could eat meat again. Usually he recommends waiting at least one hour if things shouldn't be eaten together.

[alphagruis]

me, i am one.. i can promise you the pemmican i made was 'raw'... both meat and fat were left at 85F (3 days for the lean, 1 hour for the fat)... so the fat was not really rendered, just softened and then blended to a viscous liquid.  i even tried it with the same lean mixed with raw bone marrow (not warmed, just fresh and mushed in).

one meal of this, and the intestinal inflammation that will follow is beyond painful.  pain aside, well.. there's more.  these symptoms are just as bad and i think quicker onset as any starch or grain...

Ioanna, I'm wondering. By the time the "raw" pemmican had such adverse effects on you, didn't you experience more or less similar painful intestinal inflammation after eating your meat and fat just as it is, namely plain raw?

In my opinion even eating the best and most perfect food might result in such symptoms initially when trying to switch on RPD for people suffering from intestinal disorders and inflammation.

Once your organism gets more appropriate RP food ( to be eaten initially in small quantities to limit the inflammation) for a while  bowel recovering should take place and symptoms progressively disappear...

So, in other words, maybe your experience does not mean that "raw" pemmican is really that bad, just that by the time you tried it you were not able to digest it. One way to test this hypothesis would be you try it again later on.

[TylerDurden]

The trouble with the above claim is that plenty of long-term RPDers also get problems with pemmican-consumption(even at low temps), implying that pemmican is extremely unhealthy. And most rpd newbies have negligible issues with genuinely healthy raw foods when they first start, but often get nasty reactions to any cooked/heated foods, pemmican or otherwise.

[KD]

This was a post by that retarded raw vegan troll, DurianRider, so has been deleted. Since cherimoya has quoted your post, I should add that AV has long since changed his recommendations re cooked starches for some very rare individuals and now recommends all-raw instead.

Whoops, I should of known with the signature "good time instead of long time" thing its really absurd that vegans see a raw meat diet as some kind of addictive or pleasure diet, ironic. I guess I've heard alot of accounts of people consuming cooked starch with butter or whatever, and missed the sarcasm. I know I hear those folks go on about how one can't live without carbs for long or some nonsense and that is why *AV followers* always eating breads and such. I doubt its his GF (who has the same biting attitude -even to vegan followers who are struggling-but doesn't have the same sarcasm or joy in role play to my knowledge) which makes all the talk about men coming inside of her/him on the other thread really disturbing!

[TylerDurden]

AV originally only recommended cooked starches to a few people and then it was generally advised to be eaten in small amounts in order to lower effects of detoxes from cooked diets. I've been told that AV doesn't recommend such to any degree, any more.

[JazzIsGood]

I eat baked potatoes daily and often rice, boiled corn and bananas and dates. ALWAYS ORGANIC. no salt or oil.

I went to Aajonus's talk last year in Australia and he said its fine to eat cooked starches BUT!!!, ONLY if you crave them. The audience was suprised and then AV said 'you Aussies obviously have not read by book 'we want to live' or you havent read it properly!! Please read it over and in more detail and you will understand this concept better'...AV said it all with charm and gently. A lot of us had been trying to be 100% raw and just feeling so weak and depressed because we thought we couldnt eat cooked starches. That night, for a few of that stayed overnight, AV organised some raw honey, organic white bread baguettes, lots of unsalted raw butter. We had a primal french stick party!  AV didnt eat any cos he was violently ill and spent the night in the bath tub vomiting and with diaoreaha unfortunately. We all had our own versions of why that was.

I felt so relieved that I didnt have to be so rigid and carb phobic and now that I eat more cooked starches and less meat, I feel way better off and I have lost the spare tyre around my mid section and have put on more muscle from the gym workouts due to being more 'carbed' up and being able to train harder. Health wise I dont have the bloating and constipation that the low fiber version of paleo gives. High fiber paleo works way better if you want a slim, muscular and tight body.AV said that some people just simply do better on low processed cooked starches like organic potatoes, millet, corn etc.

Wow. Is this what Harley does in his spare time? All that lifestyle preaching, and look what level he's sunken to. What a douche.

P.S.  Geoff, don't delete his account right away, it might be worth seeing what other antics he resorts to. Could be quite entertaining, as he seems to be quite a creative writer.  Funny stories to say the least.

[William]

The trouble with the above claim is that plenty of long-term RPDers also get problems with pemmican-consumption(even at low temps), implying that pemmican is extremely unhealthy.

Remarkable that so many people have cured incurable diseases by using this so-called "extremely unhealthy" pemmican. Wonder what it is that they really ate?



 

And most rpd newbies have negligible issues with genuinely healthy raw foods when they first start, but often get nasty reactions to any cooked/heated foods, pemmican or otherwise.

Right!. So don't heat your pemmican.

[TylerDurden]

Remarkable that so many people have cured incurable diseases by using this so-called "extremely unhealthy" pemmican. Wonder what it is that they really ate?

Unfortunately, your above statement is an outright lie. And given multiple RVAFers' reports re pemmican being unhealthy for them one can see that.



 



 

Right!. So don't heat your pemmican.

Unfortunately, as previously pointed out by r*t*rds such as yourself, to make proper pemmican one has to heat it well above the point one can consider it to be raw(ie 200 degrees fahrenheit plus)

[wodgina]

TD do really have to use language like the above?

It's very off putting.

[TylerDurden]

TD do really have to use language like the above?

It's very off putting.

Sorry,  I got rather exasperated,which is hardly surprising. I mean William has acted just like a troll  something like several hundred times since he's started here.  Well, there are politer, more ruthless alternatives to the above, none of which William will like, if he continues in this way.

[William]

William has acted just like a troll  something like several hundred times since he's started here.  Well, there are politer, more ruthless alternatives to the above, none of which William will like, if he continues in this way.

I tell the truth. Your reaction says more about you than it does about me.  (insert finger icon here)

[PaleoPhil]

William and Tyler, neither of you is a true troll since you both discuss actual issues when you're not fighting. How about you reserve your insults of each other for private messaging, or better yet, just skip the insults?