Circumcision to become mandatory in the United States?

[PaleoPhil]

Circumcision to become mandatory in the United States?
August 24, 12:58 PMLegal News ExaminerWilliam Pfeifer, Jr.
http://www.examiner.com/x-16813-Legal-News-Examiner~y2009m8d24-Circumcision-to-become-mandatory-in-the-United-States


Tyler, hope you've recovered enough to handle that news. If what you say about it being illegal in Europe is accurate, then it's pretty bizarre that the US is probably going to take the opposite tact. If it passes and I were a parent-to-be I would sue and take it to the Supreme Court. That doesn't seem constitutional.

[ForTheHunt]

Well it's no secret. The states are alarmingly insane.

[goodsamaritan]

US CDC is stupid.
AIDS is a total fraud in the first place.

We in the Philippines are a circumcising nation.
And in our collective experience we know that circumcising new borns is a VERY BAD IDEA.
Child feels trauma / pain.
Child is too small, there have been many reports of mistakes being made where the penis is chopped off.

Circumision is a right of passage which must be experienced to be appreciated around age 9 to 12.

[RawZi]

    From the first link they give:

... have demonstrated in 2007 the effectiveness of adult male circumcision in dramatically reducing HIV transmission ...

    And then the article itself:

... performed shortly after the birth ...

    Doesn't make any sense.  If circumcising an adult male (supposedly) stops him from passing AIDS, then there is no evidence that circumcising a neonate does.  Neonates never ever want sex.  

    The FDA probably wants to make the foreskins into expensive moisturizing cream for consumers' hands.  This isn't right.

    Did you know they circumcise boys in hospitals under twenty-four hours old?  Can you imagine how traumatized you would be?  Welcome to the world and the knife! Between your legs!  I think I'd want to crawl back in.

    Also, from what I've read and been shown, a neonates foreskin does not peel back.  That often takes up to two years before the skin can be drawn back.  Plus doctors make mistakes and take the head off sometimes.  And those bell clamps!  They squeeze the skin off slowly and painfully.  Can you imagine?

[majormark]

lol, crazy people. I do not believe this has the slightest chance to become mandatory. It could probably be promoted nationally like vaccines.

[TylerDurden]

lol, crazy people. I do not believe this has the slightest chance to become mandatory. It could probably be promoted nationally like vaccines.

 I don't think it can be made mandatory. The general trend, even in the USA, has been away from male circumcision(only 60% of males now get circumcised). Partly, it's because doctors are now increasingly terrified of being sued in the future as the baby, technically, has no say in the matter, at the time. Plus, there are plenty of anti-circumcision groups now in the US, with many men looking into foreskin reconstruction in order to repair some of the damage. These would not tolerate such behaviour and feminist groups can hardly condemn female genital mutilation in the Middle-East while still condoning male genital mutilation in the West -  such would be hypocrisy.

There is actually plentiful evidence to show that the link made between male circumcision and AIDS is completely bogus, the trouble is that the relevant pro-circumcision advocates have been entirely dishonest and have only cited the randomised trials that vaguely support their position, not the multitude which prove the exact opposite. Here's a link, though there are many others:-
http://www.circumstitions.com/Short-HIV.html

The real problem is this, IMO:- Male (and female)circumcision originally became fashionable as a way of controlling male and female sexual desire/masturbation-rates in the Western world, by removing some  genital areas which were sexually sensitive and which  enhanced performance. When the prudery changed due to changing mores, there had to be other excuses made for such a revolting practice, so excuses such as bogus links to prostate-cancer/AIDS etc. were given, despite dodgy evidence. In the UK, while male circumcision is generally very seriously frowned upon, it is still unfortunately practised in 1% of cases for Muslims and Jews, justified solely on religious not medical grounds, though, quite frankly, the infants, IMO, have a perfect right to sue their own parents and the doctor in later years.

[Ioanna]

i know nothing on this topic...

is there any drawback of not being circumcised? do boys/men want to be or not want to be? SOTD wrote about the bleeding and GS about right of passage. 

[KD]

is there any drawback of not being circumcised? do boys/men want to be or not want to be? SOTD wrote about the bleeding and GS about right of passage. 

I think what they are saying is that the usual listed drawbacks for NOT being circumcised are mostly or entirely myths. That said I can't quite figure out/decipher the reasons why circumcision would be bad for males myself? Surely traditional hospital birthing is just as traumatic with or w/o such a procedure.

---

I know just from conversations and such that many females have issues/repulsions with uncircumcised males, whether this is based on cultural misinformation or not.

[Hans89]

That said I can't quite figure out/decipher the reasons why circumcision would be bad for males myself?

Because it's not nice to have a big chunk of yourself cut off. Then there is scarring, the head of the penis becomes less sensitive, discomfort from the exposed head rubbing against clothes etc. It can be very detrimental to one's sex life.

[William]

I can't quite figure out/decipher the reasons why circumcision would be bad for males myself?

PTSD

[goodsamaritan]

i know nothing on this topic...

is there any drawback of not being circumcised? do boys/men want to be or not want to be? SOTD wrote about the bleeding and GS about right of passage. 

The guess is that 98+ % of Filipino Men are circumsized.

Drawback of uncircumsized Filipino male?  Filipino teenage women DEMAND that their men / suitors be circumsized or they are not entertaining their advances.  So this is a very big drawback / incentive.

Filipino elders expect circumcision.  Filipino MOTHERS demand their sons be circumsized.  My own WIFE is more adamant about circumcizing our sons than I am.

My father forgot to circumsize me so by 13 it was I who reminded him / demanded that I be circumsized.

As a culture, filipinos generally believe that uncircumcized is unhygienic because of the milky white cheese stink called "KUPAL".  Boys can be teased as KUPAL if uncircumsized.  And any boy in high school will be teased to no end by all boys and girls if they are still uncircumsized.

Nationwide free clinics and paid clinics are held every summer vacation to circumcize boys.  Rotary clubs have free circumcision missions.

The drawback for Filipino women getting involved with foreign men is they have to accept that he is uncircumsized. 

You may think Filipinos are mad, but this is the way it is. 

[Ioanna]

not intentional (or consciously anyway), but the men i have dated, save few, are not american... uncircumcised is normal to me... circumcised is just an american way to me that i don't know if it is something men want or not?

[KD]

PTSD

yeah, I gathered this is what people were already implying, and accept that is possible, but I kinda threw in the caveat that most hospital births are in themselves traumatizing to the point that I would question how much more so C. would be. And even in a natural birth the umbilical cord has to be cut etc...

the head of the penis becomes less sensitive, discomfort from the exposed head rubbing against clothes etc. It can be very detrimental to one's sex life.

I don't see how one would know this to be true unless they had been circumcised as an adult, right? Just from a physical standpoint, I don't see how removing skin would make something less and not more sensitive, but if that is what the literature says...

[wodgina]

The guess is that 98+ % of Filipino Men are circumsized.

Drawback of uncircumsized Filipino male?  Filipino teenage women DEMAND that their men / suitors be circumsized or they are not entertaining their advances.  So this is a very big drawback / incentive.

Filipino elders expect circumcision.  Filipino MOTHERS demand their sons be circumsized.  My own WIFE is more adamant about circumcizing our sons than I am.

My father forgot to circumsize me so by 13 it was I who reminded him / demanded that I be circumsized.

As a culture, filipinos generally believe that uncircumcized is unhygienic because of the milky white cheese stink called "KUPAL".  Boys can be teased as KUPAL if uncircumsized.  And any boy in high school will be teased to no end by all boys and girls if they are still uncircumsized.

Nationwide free clinics and paid clinics are held every summer vacation to circumcize boys.  Rotary clubs have free circumcision missions.

The drawback for Filipino women getting involved with foreign men is they have to accept that he is uncircumsized. 

You may think Filipinos are mad, but this is the way it is. 

Drastic solution to a yeast infection.

[Hans89]

I don't see how one would know this to be true unless they had been circumcised as an adult, right? Just from a physical standpoint, I don't see how removing skin would make something less and not more sensitive, but if that is what the literature says...

The skin on the head consists of mucous membrane, like the inside of your mouth, or the inside of your eyelids. All such mucous membranes are protected. When the foreskin is taken away, this mucous membrane is exposed to the air and to abrasion from clothes, so it hardens. Otherwise it would constantly get sore.
There is more to it... Check this article if you want further info: http://www.foreskin.org/fleiss.htm

Drastic solution to a yeast infection.

I guess people made up all those pro-circumcision pseudo arguments like improved hygiene because they wanted it  to make sense that God told them to mutilate their male children...

[alphagruis]

Drastic solution to a yeast infection.

As amputate a leg or an arm in case of persistent infection....

Circumcision is obviously just one more example of human idioty.

[TylerDurden]

I think what they are saying is that the usual listed drawbacks for NOT being circumcised are mostlly or entirely myths. That said I can't quite figure out/decipher the reasons why circumcision would be bad for males myself? Surely traditional hospital birthing is just as traumatic with or w/o such a procedure.

Hospital birthing can't be equated to circumcision as the umbilical cord isn't really meant to be a part of the baby's body. And the circumcision of the male lasts a whole lifetime in its negative effects.

Removing the glans means a loss of erogenous zones, plus it exposes the penis to more harm as there's no protective foreskin.
According to women who've experienced both circumcised and uncircumcised men, they state that circumcised men need to experience much rougher sex in order to get the same level of pleasure as uncircumcised men, plus the circumcised men also feel the need to go in more for oral and anal sex, for similiar reasons. Also, men who've been forced to undergo circumcision at a later date in life after decades of sexual enjoyment, commonly report a reduction in sexual pleasure after the operation.

I know just from conversations and such that many females have issues/repulsions with uncircumcised males, whether this is based on cultural misinformation or not.

  Purely to do with cultural misinformation. Women in countries where circumcision is very rare don't have such issues, after all.

[PaleoPhil]

... The real problem is this, IMO:- Male (and female)circumcision originally became fashionable as a way of controlling male and female sexual desire/masturbation-rates in the Western world, by removing some  genital areas which were sexually sensitive and which  enhanced performance. ...

I agree that it is unethical to do it on infants that can't refuse it. The fact that anesthesia was not even used until recently, on the assumption that infants are less sensitive to pain--which was a stupid assumption and the opposite turned out to be true--was horrifically cruel.

Interestingly, circumcision long predates Western civilization. Even some tribes among the oldest of all cultures--the !Kung-Ju/hoansi--practiced circumcision, but have recently been abandoning the practice. However, in South Africa the BBC reported that since uncircumcised infants are considered more "pure" and unblemished by "witchdoctors" and therefore more fit for sacrifice in a new variation on pagan religion that arose with rapid development and modernization in South Africa, parents are protecting their children from child sacrifice by circumcising them. The new practice of child sacrifice was spurred by wealthy urban builders and businessmen who pay for the sacrifice of poor rural children, and sometimes for specific body parts, so as to ensure success in building skyscrapers, initiating businesses, and generally becoming rich and powerful. In the case of a building, parts of the corpse, or the whole corpse, is apparently encased in the cement of a corner of the ground floor of the building.

[TylerDurden]

Circumcision came about because primitive tribes needed some puberty rites to demonstrate the difference between men and boys and women and girls.Therefore the harsher and more painful the puberty rite was, the more favourably they viewed it.

[RawZi]

primitive tribes needed some puberty rites to demonstrate the difference between men

    And maybe they were hungry or cannibalistic.  Watch out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwBao-Tb_BA

    Sorry.  This just came out last month.  Maybe it's healthy, but the patient or guest of honor looks pretty upset.

[Caveman]

Never! I am proudly uncircumcised. 

Seriously, any cutting or removing of any tissue of the body is absolutely insane.

[laterade]

<=== Connor is fully intact
You might be able to take my life, but you will never take my foreskin!!!

1Filipino teenage women DEMAND that their men / suitors be circumsized or they are not entertaining their advances.
2Filipino elders expect circumcision.
3...because of the milky white cheese stink called "KUPAL"....
4Nationwide free clinics and paid clinics are held every summer vacation to circumcize boys.  Rotary clubs have free circumcision missions.

1.Sounds like hell. I am so sorry to hear that.
2.Old people suck.
3.Around here, women love cheese. 
4.Religion is the cancer that will eat this planet.

I thank you for sharing your perspective, that was a huge eye opener.
Never have I heard someone talk of penis cutting in such a insane confident manner.
I give kudos that you are given a choice, but then again, not really.
For me however, I will keep my man-clit.

[achillezzz]

[goodsamaritan]

I'm trying to talk my wife out of circumsizing our 2 boys.

[Techydude]

@OP - that news is old - see the date 2009 saw that ages ago. That was when the CDC paniced when the circ rate in 2009 dropped to 33% and 67% of newborns were left intact in 2009 woot 



The new and awesome news is the SanFrancisco Circumcision BAN which will be heading to the Nov 2011 ballot to ban circ in San Fran: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/19/male.circumcision.sf/index.html

Also lots of states are ending medicaid coverage of circumcision this year which is awesome.


@goodsamaritan http://www.circumstitions.com/Philippines.html Good reasons not to circumcise: http://circumstitions.com/reasonsnotto.html
 you should show your wife sexuallymutilatedchild(dot)org thewholenetwork(dot)org doctorsopposingcircumcision(dot)org

Genital mutilation is very traumatic and has a psychological impact especially when done as the infants first memory into this world during the developmental stage from birth: http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/

An infant just died today from hemoragging from circumcision http://www.drmomma.org/2010/05/death-from-circumcision.html You should also read up on Dr Momma posts to show your wife so that she doesn't cut and risk your children's lives http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/are-you-fully-informed.html


, and circumcision does sexually diminish and lose sensitivity which is why the glans keratinizes and circ and female circ was originally pushed in the us to end masturbation(we do it anyway and diminishing ones sex is sick but failed) through reducing people's sensitivity (circumcision and female clitoral removal both reduce sensitivity norm(dot)org tlctugger(dot)com) Many men consider prepuce regeneration to regain everything lost to circ and foreskin restoration to regain some of everything right now that they lost to circ - therefore men are dissatisfied.

Here's a sensitivity test: Rub a finger across your palm(bottom of your hand) then the top of your hand. The difference being Your palm being intact and the top of your hand being circumcised is the amount of sensation you lose to circumcision because your palm has meissner corpusles, nerve endings also found in the prepuce which is lost to circumcision, and you lose 20,000-70,000 nerve endings whereas the vagina only has 8,000 nerve endings compared to the 70,000-20,000 of the intact man.

, but hospitals cover it up and foregen(dot)org for the fact that men like me want to reverse their circ through regen medicine and gain everything we lost back.


And as for hygiene - enjoy your shower and have a good day. Women produce more smegma or white cheese than men, google it that's what gives the vagina that fishy smell when you don't clean it. But we don't go around doing female circumcision in the U.S., is illegal but also a religious practice and about 90%+ Egyptian Women are circumcised over hygiene and cultural and religious reasons while the UK, Europe, Austrailia, and Most of Asia remain intact. Only Israel and Asia are majority circumcising nations as 20% of the world genitally mutilates, the 80% of the world is left intact circumstitions.com

Most people don't know this is torture - they torture children and alter their bodies and submit them to pain and strap them down to a device called the circumstraint to prevent them from escaping (i'd escape too if this was done to me now! Im upset being unintact) : http://circumstitions.com/Images/Glossary/circumstraint.jpg

Gogo intactivists!



If men and women were meant to have foreskins/prepuces we would be born with them. And we are. GENITAL MUTILATION IS AN INSULT TO EVOLUTION!