Journalistica

[KD]

I don't think so. While my jerky doesn't stay unused long, I once dried (sun & wind) a fresh-caught salmon, and kept it in a paper bag on the shelf under the rear window of my car.
It was good for months. Jerky should last for at least as long, if it is thoroughly dried, and fat-free.

thanks, into the paper bag it goes.

[Paleo Donk]

Yea, glad to hear you are interested in my low-protein experiment. I am extremely interested myself! I hope you don't take it as advice. Even if you did, thats fine. My guess right now, to get more into specific amounts, is that there is an amount of protein for days of no activity, call it X, that will lead to better health in the long run. For days of moderate activity (20% more energy usage), protein requirement might be 1.1X. For Strenuous activity (50% more energy usage), protein requirement might be 1.15X. So the more activity the lesser percentage of calories will come from protein.

[KD]

feeling pretty discouraged as my fatigue, eye tiredness, ear itchyness has gotten worse daily even since I stopped the small amounts of fruit and carrot juice I had added in.

someone reminded me that according to an unmentioned guru, that those with candida, should do better to focus on raw white meats over red meats or even refrain from red meats totally.

although I've eaten my fair share of raw chicken in the past, its not something I'm altogether excited about starting up doing again, not to mention the best quality I can get fresh is Amish or organic chicken from Whole Foods. I might be able to get it frozen from the guy I get pastured eggs from, but I 'm more sketched out with frozen chicken than other meats. I do get pork fat from him, and that doesn't seem to cause issues with me so far, so I guess I could try other pork cuts from him.

of course its still totally unclear if candida is my issue, other than that it seems the carbs exacerbate things, but its hard to say. I also stopped the candida-specific probiotics I was taking a few weeks back, so perhaps they were helping. I guess fatigue is often a symptom of detox, but other than the fact that it is totally extreme, I don't really have any other symptoms, some 'intestinal detox' here and there, but mostly my elimination is great, and shows no sign of undigested food etc...

also, i'm still dealing with dryness/dehydration, my lips have returned to being pink and usually smooth, but I still wake up in the morning feeling really parched, and most of the day as well.

Mostly I've been eating buffalo, the pork suet, butter and the celery juice with eggs in the mornings. I finally dug into the beef heart tonight, and am now doing my second batch of dried meat in the lex box (although I've eating only a few pieces form the last 5 lb). the heart meat itself actually was much more mild than expected, and pretty similar to regular muscle meat (not all that odd I guess being a muscle and all), so maybe in the future, i'll skip getting fresh muscle meat for the week and just eat the heart, tongue and pork fat, certainly will be alot cheaper.

It seems like alot of younger people here are dealing with fatigue and possible candida issues. I think with myself there is some psychological/motivation element, but still weigh mostly on physical issues, treatments and drugs etc.. I really don't feel like I can maintain having to let candida 'run its course' over a period of years without any let up regarding energy in the present. Sometimes I do get hopeless for this reason, as I do feel like I spend a huge share of my time and energy living a pretty acetic life, under the idea that I'll feel better, and yet if and when I feel better, I essentially have to do the same stuff to continue - although perhaps I'll get to eat more papaya comfortably

[RawZi]

... raw white meats over red meats or even refrain from red meats totally.

although I've eaten my fair share of raw chicken in the past, its not something I'm altogether excited about starting up doing again, not to mention the best quality I can get fresh is Amish or organic chicken from Whole Foods. I might be able to get it frozen from the guy I get pastured eggs from, but I 'm more sketched out with frozen chicken than other meats. ... I think with myself there is some psychological/motivation element, but still weigh mostly on physical issues, treatments and drugs etc.. I really don't feel like I can maintain having to let candida 'run its course' over a period of years without any let up regarding energy in the present. Sometimes I do get hopeless for this reason, as I do feel like I spend a huge share of my time and energy living a pretty acetic life, under the idea that I'll feel better, and yet if and when I feel better, I essentially have to do the same stuff to continue - although perhaps I'll get to eat more papaya comfortably

    The air chilled Bell and Evans from WF is pretty nice.  Can you get nice live lobster?  I've tried that.  It was delicious  

    I've always tended to think that candida in particular might be overcome by the right mindset.  I don't think acetic is necessarily it.  Living for today may be a better way in some forms, than living for tomorrow.    Living for tomorrow may be for naught.  I don't mean to be gloomy, I'm just not sure.

    Good luck with the papaya, and other fruit you may like!

[KD]

I'm still eating seafood here and there, but not much, as especially the kinds I enjoy tend to be double or triple what I pay for GF beef or buffalo, especially per calorie. I havn't had live lobster yet, although I live in a great area for it. I did have some sea scallops the other night (on sale at $11 per lb down from $15 or $16), which were great, much better than the last time I remember eating them. The local white fishes like cod or haddock I can eat in a pinch, but I find basing my diet around them to be pretty wretched. The most recent time I had swordfish it tasted really off to me in some parts. Sill no luck with mussels or clams, oysters tend to be really pricey.

I don't think that variety of chickens is available at my WF, but pretty much any grain fed bird I'd be wary about eating on a daily basis, like I was last year. It also seems to aggravate things mentally, and is less grounding than red meat. But in a sense, I wasn't experiencing fatigue in that period, so who knows.

As for living in the moment, the only thing I can say is that my mood is overall alot better than 6 months or so, and yet the fatigue has worsened and only improved slightly in the last few months VLC, with it currently being on a low again. I'm often plenty motivated to do things yet, an hour into something I'm ready to pass out. I was more trying to say that eating this way requires a certain amount of dedication and social compromise that results in being acetic, there might be something I can do about that - (open to suggestions) but was more agreeing with you, that sitting around and waiting for candida symptoms to go away years later (as aajonous mentions) makes daily attention to diet seem pretty fruitless.

In other news my power was down for 4-5 hrs due to the floods in my area, I've lucked out in many ways being on a hill, even though there are places less than a mile away that are totally under water. However it did make me conscious of the fact that there seems to be multiple blackouts every summer here, which is another deterrent to stockpiling frozen meats.

[KD]

Well, the sun has come out after the flooding, and alot of the fatigue and such has lessened. I guess its been over a week since I've had the fruit/carrot juice, and I think it was either yesterday or the day before that I still woke up with major ear itchiness, but that seems to be the only symptom I've had. I guess I sounded like a real downer in the last posts. On the positives, i'm looking well, my nails are rock hard (although thats not really new), my teeth look whiter, I haven't lost weight, I haven't gained weight but I'm looking somewhat more muscular. The minor burns I've gotten from the sun go away over night which I think is a pretty healthy sign. I do hear that my breath is bad.

I spent the day in the sun working out for hours and prepping a garden. Laying down I got the stomach spasms/cramps again. although I wasn't working with weights, but most of the exercises I was doing really engage the abdomen. On a positive note, the pull was on the opposite side as the last major one, but it seems pretty conclusive (to me) that dehydration plays some kind of role. I've been reading alot of back threads on water and salts and such, and it seemed the opinions were fairly split on each but that some saw muscle pulls as some aspect of adjustment. I'm not sure about this as last spring these pulls got progressively worse, and as I see it, because I was trying to get by one a liter of mineral water a day, with some veg juice here and there. I also think salt might be an issue for me more than others. I added literally a few small grains to my water today to see if that has any benefit, I've already been using lemons regularly, and mixing mineral and filtered tap, as depending on either alone seems to make things worse.

I enjoyed some crab legs yesterday, definitely one of those foods it seems almost silly to cook. I have a number of high meats going now, my cracked egg is a month old, some buffalo that I'd say is around 18 days old, and some 5 day old beef. that was already pretty over aged/expired to begin with. I'm hoping to experiment with more bivalves and shellfish soon.

[KD]

Well, I think I need to start being more proactive in finding activities and meeting people, because my RPD is making me more selfconcious and I think I need to work against that.

This has been the case since I've been pretty much been in exile from the city I used to live in, where all my friends and contacts are, but, once  I got involved in a relationship which caused me to forget about moving back and to ponder more about making a life for myself here, which seems impossible. mostly because I don't drive, and the public transport is awful. The other kicker is it looks my relationship is ending, so I need to be even more proactive in setting something else up before I get too desperate and depressed.  I investigated and there is a crossfit center I can get quite close to on the bus, and they offer 1 free day or whatever. They are doing some paleo challenge right now. Really I just want to meet anyone that I can say I eat raw meat to, and thats rare around these parts. Although even in NYC many people frown on such things. But if their open to paleo stuff than should be ok with raw lets hope. Or else I'll have to get back into yoga, with heavy duty deoderant

[TylerDurden]

You are aware that there is a paleodiet-eating group in NYC? It's been mentioned in the info/news forum. There is 1 guy there who eats partially rawpalaeo, and the others don't mind eating things like raw fish(ie sushi) on occasion.

[djr_81]

Really I just want to meet anyone that I can say I eat raw meat to, and thats rare around these parts. Although even in NYC many people frown on such things. But if their open to paleo stuff than should be ok with raw lets hope.

I'm roughly an hour north on the train from Grand Central if you ever want to meet up with another raw paleo.
The offer's open to anyone eating raw paleo; I'd like to meet others with a similar mindset too.

[Paleo Donk]

Crossfit would be an excellent way to reintegrate yourself back into a social network. They are a bit cult-like from what I hear but they are generally interested in good health and I'm sure lots of relationships come out of their ways. Lots of the vids on youtube show them as being one big happy group. This seems like a really good idea for me, though I don't necessarily believe in their exact methodology of lifting, it certainly beats going to my globo gym. The only issue is price at more than $100 a month.

Why exactly is your rpd holding you back and making you self-conscious? Are you sure its rpd, or is it other underlying issues? I say this, because my diet has little to do with me not being social. When I'm in my best mindset, I could care less what other people have to say about me, and actually enjoy short-circuiting them with my lifestyle if it ever arises in conversation.

[KD]

You are aware that there is a paleodiet-eating group in NYC? It's been mentioned in the info/news forum. There is 1 guy there who eats partially rawpalaeo, and the others don't mind eating things like raw fish(ie sushi) on occasion.

I wrote this sorta late at night so I can see how its a little unclear, but I don't live in NYC anymore even though I did for most of my adult life. It's way easier there for me to function/meet people/maintain work. I've seen the meetup group page and know some of the people on it, I met Vlad I think around three years ago there. Basically I was saying where I currently live is not working for me, but that I should try to seek out activities here while I get healthy enough to consider moving back. But even in a place liek NYC that is open to alot, or has a higher precentage of people doing alternative diet nd animal foods diets that - at least for me, I perceive and project social challanges.

I'm roughly an hour north on the train from Grand Central if you ever want to meet up with another raw paleo.
The offer's open to anyone eating raw paleo; I'd like to meet others with a similar mindset too.

cool, yeah I love making trips up north, especially in the summer and early fall, I'll definitely give a holler if I'm living back there

Crossfit would be an excellent way to reintegrate yourself back into a social network. They are a bit cult-like from what I hear but they are generally interested in good health and I'm sure lots of relationships come out of their ways. Lots of the vids on youtube show them as being one big happy group. This seems like a really good idea for me, though I don't necessarily believe in their exact methodology of lifting, it certainly beats going to my globo gym. The only issue is price at more than $100 a month.

Why exactly is your rpd holding you back and making you self-conscious? Are you sure its rpd, or is it other underlying issues? I say this, because my diet has little to do with me not being social. When I'm in my best mindset, I could care less what other people have to say about me, and actually enjoy short-circuiting them with my lifestyle if it ever arises in conversation.

I've been thinking about joining some kind of gym anyway as my last few years of just bodyweight and free weights has not be as sucessful as when I went to a gym regularly. I'm sure I have something to learn but yeah it would be more about the social element. This one here actually has punch cards per day, which is really rare for a gym 10-class punch card:  $14 / class ($119) with decreasing prices per class the more classes you punch, 2 classes per week:  $90/month . It is pricey, but not much more so than a typical yoga class.

As for being self-conscious, I'm sure it has to do with raw. It doesn't make me self-conscious when interacting with people, but it makes me nervous about how to open up and share with people and make deeper relationships. Like, in New York when I was doing the diet I could still go out to all kinds of social events and bars and even go on dates, but was hard to be 100% open with women and even with friends, The only part where my psyche really plays a role is in the projecting, like my current thoughts about needing to join crossfit or whatever or I'll have 0 future dating or friend prospects. Its also made me turn down offers to visits friends and such and go on trips, which is something I should be able to get over.


edit:
I guess as a caveat, its fair to say that its not just with RPD, but with most restrive type diets I've been on for over 4 years, I do think raw meat is the extra hurtle with many people, but even when I was on a fruit diet, I wouldn't tell my boss/friends etc, so yeah its deffinetly some issue I have. I have a buddy who eats raw primal in NYC and he says he tells everyone he meets, even random people. I've eaten raw meat on park benches and stuff, but yeah its more about thoughts around acceptance and relationships


heres a little update pic.

[KD]

I e-mailed the guy from crossfit, so if he gets back to me I should be trying the intro class sometime next week. I'd also like to make that trip, to at least get out of my routine or lack there of, so I'm pondering adding the carbs back in and perhaps adjust better to making some future compromises. I also still have all this jerky, which doesn't seem to agree with me great, although I havn't really tried to make a meal of it yet.

the itchy ears have not gone away without carbs. Its not something overt or discomforting, more just something I notice from time to time. Even water seems to set it off, but I guess I do tend to squeeze some lemon in my water. The fatigue situation is also still not great, although thats starting to seem more depression oriented. I did perceive it being worse when I started adding in back fruits, but honestly I don't feel fantastically different doing 5 or so days ZC and a few more before that doing VCL - some cucumber juices.

my elimination seems to be sluggish again (for awhile things were almost regular/full) I don't know if this has to do with not eating eggs in the last week or two. I know the are supposed to help, especially early on in the diet

I'm thinking about expanding into cooked starch if the fruit continues to cause problems. My only other issues with starch is that they taste like crap, unless there is some kind of spices or something or. I guess I could try baking yams and covering them in butter and spice - after  raw dinner digests. These are things my buddies would appreciate, get a few lb fish, and fry it up with some yams - yeah I Think I could bring myself to participate. and making an even more fancy gesture, they might give me a pass on chomping raw beef heart.

[djr_81]

Add Cinnamon, Ginger, and a dash of Black Pepper to the starches. All will help digestion some and will help the flavor.

[KD]

Thanks, yeah, when I was back eating starches I was eating them plain/steamed after meat a la warrior diet. That drove me crazy enough to remove them entirely as after a while I could not resits getting gluten free breads and pastas and such. But, eating my restricted brand of cooked paleo/primal was also bland and anti-social enough that I just went back to eating all raw.

Something about sweet potato just makes me squirm to think of eating (plain, although perhaps with some kind of spices/prep). I've made some other soups in the past with root vegetables like turnip and celery root and these seem to be more mild and edible even without spices.

The only thing that is a drag is that I'd like to be eating raw carbs (not just because I want to continue eating all raw) but that I get really dehydrated not eating any. My lips have gone back to normal pretty much, but I still feel thirsty almost all the time, and wonder if this effects my workouts/energy and overall health that the muscle cramps imply. The cooked carbs I don't think will benefit me much in this respect, other than adding some carb calories.

But yeah, I was also speaking mostly about traveling, that it would be nice to be able to eat more (raw) carbs in a pinch. Even if I can talk to my buddies/host about my raw eating, I'm still self conscious about bringing stuff home and taking up space in their fridge etc..,not to mention presumably being out on my own most of the day until 5PM or whatever. I've eaten some things raw in WF dining court, and even outside sometimes in the city, and there are sashimi joints, but without fat this would all add up to significant under-eating, which is usually fine for me energy wise, but it seems to make more sense just to make some dietary compromises and enjoy instead of making a big deal about everything. On, the plus side I still eat raw butter and have all this jerky, so that is something I can feasibly bring without any issue. I think for myself there is really alot of paranoia about candida, that any little thing resets your progress 10fold or whatever they say. When I do try honey, or fruits or whatever, I do seem to get some kind of immediate reaction, but whose to say if its seriously affecting my situation, especially if I can have the same symptoms just waking up in the morning not eating any carbs. Maybe they're just chomping down on some escaping toxins/metals or something and enjoy a little sugar break.

[Paleo Donk]

So, what exactly gets in the way of forming a deep relationship when eating rpd. I suppose for me, I am most confident about my diet, not necessarily that it is right, but the depth of knowledge I have gained from reading these boards and endless studies that I can easily dispense the information. Basically, its the one thing I am sure about.

I thought you weighed 160 at 6'. Did I misremember this? Because you look much bigger/stronger.

As for sweet potatoes, I had my first "fermented" sweet potato the other day. I just left it out on my desk for a 7-10 days and ignored it. It looked the same, but when I finally picked it up, I saw a bunch of mold at one end. Parts of it had become soft, not hard like it had been when I bought it. I left it out another day and then ripped it open. I stayed away from the actual mold but had chunks of the soft sweetness. It was surprisingly good.

[RawZi]

    I've eaten sweet potatoes (plain nothing added) like one might apples, in a pinch hanging out with friends when there was nothing else raw available.  It was good, once!  I've also eaten very ripe raw plantain in such a situation.  Friends have made blended raw sweet potato soup.  I didn't like the taste or texture.  Yeah, I've made cooked stews of celery root and turnip.  They were nice, no seasoning, the celery root was wild too!  I'm sort or past vegetable soup stage. 

    It is important when eating with others to eat something easy and similar to what they are.  People can look up to you too if you follow your own food path, whatever's healthy for you.  Get some gourmet friends and make some carpaccios!   Do you like renaissance fairs?  Maybe dressed as King Henry VIII you can get away with a turkey leg.  Idk, people are so strange.  Many will shy away from any unusual food, rather than do the healthier thing in this case which would be to try it too.  We should have paleo fairs.     

As for sweet potatoes, I had my first "fermented" sweet potato the other day. I just left it out on my desk for a 7-10 days and ignored it. It looked the same, but when I finally picked it up, I saw a bunch of mold at one end. Parts of it had become soft, not hard like it had been when I bought it. I left it out another day and then ripped it open. I stayed away from the actual mold but had chunks of the soft sweetness. It was surprisingly good.

Something about sweet potato just makes me squirm to think of eating (plain, although perhaps with some kind of spices/prep). I've made some other soups in the past with root vegetables like turnip and celery root and these seem to be more mild and edible even without spices.

[KD]

So, what exactly gets in the way of forming a deep relationship when eating rpd...

Well, I am involved in a relationship. Its fairly tenuous for a variety of reasons, but one of them is the whole social/eating things is somewhat important for her. Right or wrong, I feel like I don't even what to be in a position where I have to explain things to her or my friends, and I tend to avoid certain things like making long trips etc or just bringing food with me during the day where I'd have to explain...Not saying this is right, just clarifying further what I meant.

I thought you weighed 160 at 6'. Did I misremember this? Because you look much bigger/stronger.

heh, well, I can say for certain that this pic is flattering to the point of being skewed, whereas the first one was really the opposite/negative. I seem to have one of those physiques where If I've just been working out it makes a huge difference and here I was doing heavy garden work (chopping) as well. I think for the most part 165 has been the number I hover around (although even since this pic I've had some more issues/loss - more on that later ), and apparently my girlfriend mentioned I've borrowed quite a bit from my ass! I do mostly bodyweight stuff so its hard to tell how strong I am. I do use one weight for some simple curls and shoulder raises that is maxed out at 45 lb, and I do some other kind of stuff with that weight and large ammts of reps. I've done a fair ammount of light fasting/cleanses and such, so perhaps my cells have less crap and I appear bigger at a lighter weight, doesn't seem accurate by my other issues though.

As for sweet potatoes, I had my first "fermented" sweet potato the other day. I just left it out on my desk for a 7-10 days and ignored it. It looked the same, but when I finally picked it up, I saw a bunch of mold at one end. Parts of it had become soft, not hard like it had been when I bought it. I left it out another day and then ripped it open. I stayed away from the actual mold but had chunks of the soft sweetness. It was surprisingly good.

interesting. are you planning on making more? I think at this point I'm searching after some grail of whatever is 'missing' in my diet. I realize (cooked) starches are probably a bad direction to go, and I'm not there yet, but just in the past 5 days or so I've gone through another stint where its harder to eat, never mind the quantity needed to put on some weight. I've been eating less and less butter 1.) as an experiment to see if it does contribute to some of my symptoms and 2.) because just the taste makes me really sick/queasy. I've tried eating more pork fat but I seem to have a limit on that as well, and can hardly eat even the smallish amount of muscle meat I was eating. So I don't think removing all the butter will happen until I'm getting some more variety of fats, and/or adding more carbs. I do wonder if my VLC or ZC are contributing or aiding my fatigue issues. As its clear people have a variety of responses to such things.

I had a dozen oysters today for some variety. They were alot easier to open than I was suspecting. I employed a short knife and chef's knife for the job. Mostly I just used the later and chopped the end, and then used the back corner flat end of the knife to just sort of pop a little around the edge until it released. Pretty good, but kinda expensive and time consuming ( I guess it was only around 30 mins but I get picky with raw prep   ) to be regular food.

[KD]

   I've eaten sweet potatoes (plain nothing added) like one might apples, in a pinch hanging out with friends when there was nothing else raw available.  It was good, once!  I've also eaten very ripe raw plantain in such a situation.  Friends have made blended raw sweet potato soup.  I didn't like the taste or texture.  Yeah, I've made cooked stews of celery root and turnip.  They were nice, no seasoning, the celery root was wild too!  I'm sort or past vegetable soup stage.  

    It is important when eating with others to eat something easy and similar to what they are.  People can look up to you too if you follow your own food path, whatever's healthy for you.  Get some gourmet friends and make some carpaccios!  Do you like renaissance fairs?  Maybe dressed as King Henry VIII you can get away with a turkey leg.  Idk, people are so strange.  Many will shy away from any unusual food, rather than do the healthier thing in this case which would be to try it too.  We should have paleo fairs.    

Yeah I think I have too, or at least shredding in a salad. Blackened plantains are excellent, I assume that kind of fermentation/ripening wouldn't be great if I truly am dealing with candida.

I've been to a reenactment type fair, where they have the big mutton legs and jousting. I've also eaten meat on the street or on benches and even in a bar bathroom. Its more with friends/relationships, where its just never ending discussion, like its radium or something. Although perhaps it does have a confidence element. if I was 200 lbs of muscle and didn't have any fatigue, or smell like chemical detox, perhaps people might be like 'woah, not for me but seems to be working for ya'.

[Paleo Donk]

Thanks for clarifying. Did you fix your relationship? I thought you said it was ending.

Thats pretty strange that you are struggling to eat and losing your ass. Most people on ZC that I have seen have reported no decrease in muscle mass and generally have significantly improved muscle tone. I still can't believe you are 165, I would have guessed 200+. ZC could be pretty bad for you. And since you don't have much problems with cravings from carbs (right?), this could be a sign that you 'need' much more carbs than me. I wouldn't completely rule out cooked starches, some people do very with them and I've seen some reports of people who have struggled with low-carb only to do very well with the addition of potatoes. I will probably 'make' more fermented sweet potatoes. They really did taste great with the texture and taste similar to what its like when cooked, just a little sourer.

[KD]

Thanks for clarifying. Did you fix your relationship? I thought you said it was ending.

Well, it seemed to be going in that direction. Basically we don't see each other alot even usually, but it had been even more so and there was obvious tension. She came over last night and we worked things out and also managed to have a good time. I was more vocal about the diet stuff and how necessary it is. She understands that part, although because of my word manuverings, she still doesn't understand exactly what it is that I eat :/ but supports that I'm doing what I need to do. She even commented that I look even better, but yeah that my midsection and ass is on the outs. Part of it is she is kinda hard to please sometimes, and I also have alot of issues with the relationship, but now it seems to be back on track *shrugs*

Thats pretty strange that you are struggling to eat and losing your ass. Most people on ZC that I have seen have reported no decrease in muscle mass and generally have significantly improved muscle tone. I still can't believe you are 165, I would have guessed 200+. ZC could be pretty bad for you. And since you don't have much problems with cravings from carbs (right?), this could be a sign that you 'need' much more carbs than me. I wouldn't completely rule out cooked starches, some people do very with them and I've seen some reports of people who have struggled with low-carb only to do very well with the addition of potatoes.

Well, I have alot of chemicals and crap that I am dealing with, which is commonly linked to nausea. Occasionally I add charcoal powder (cut from gel tabs) and for much of the last month I've been eating little bits of cheese with butter prior to a meal, that is recommended by primal dieters. I can't say its worked wonders so far, and pass most of the time now.

But even that is relatively new. I had a small bit of nausea/trouble eating for a few days after having some dodgy swordfish awhile back. But its more that even when feeling copacetic, its hard for me to get enough to eat just eating meat and fat. If I have eggs that adds a little bump. I have the high meats in progress, so maybe after I experiment with those I'll be in a position to make a conscious shift towards more cooked starches or maybe i'll start ordering fat. Originally my plan was not to go back 100% and just cruise of something mildly healing and nutritious, but every version of that I came up with seemed to be as acetic as doing VLC raw.

looks like tomorrow will be at least 2 weeks again since I had any fruit/sugar, and I think I had some cucumber/herb juices at the beginning of the first week, other than that its just been animal food, with some lemon water. I can't find it now, but read one post where Tyler said loss of appetite was common on ZC, and that many people eventually found they had a hard time keeping weight on.

Yeah, I have no true cravings for carbs. but I'd rather be eating them for sure. It seems to be always dehydrated for one one without em. I think I'll try again with the fruits. I was reading on the MDA site (somewhat unrelated I suppose) that doing carb days over 150 g are good for people that are doing primarily VLC, I guess a mini version of what bodybuilders used to do. I don't understand all the science and not sure if I even understand all the ramifications of ketosis. Or whether I'm burning fats for energy or my own fats. it kinda seems to be the latter.

Today I've been following this live cam on an owl. I was really fortunate that I caught the part where it just bit the head off of a mouse in one shot and feed its young.
http://www.sportsmansparadiseonline.com/Live_Owl_Nest_Box_Cam.html

- Heres another shot from the same day, look a little lighter. from the angle. also my bones are really tiny.

[KD]

Well I seem to have hit my first flu like detox, or food-poisoning-esq incident. I tried yesterday with reintroducing the fruits, ate 1 lb of strawberries and than a whole papaya mid day after eaiting my regular meat/fat hours earlier. I had bought alot of fruit with the idea I would try to shoot out over 150 g, and  I actually didn't get very far with that. It didn't seem to trigger the symptoms I usually get (ear itching) perhaps a little fatigue, but later after my other meat/fat meal I started getting really nauseous, much more so than the periodic stomach issues I've been mentioning.

It would seem probable that I'm having some kind of reaction to the dozen oysters I had the day before, which seemed to go down fine. Other than that, I guess a combination of things could have triggered some internal detox. Last night I had terrible chills, minor hallucination, restless/inability to fall asleep, and massive desire to puke, which never happened. Today my body is still chilly and really achy/sore and I havn't been able to eat, and when I drink water it tastes strange/sweet to me. My tongue is covered which never happens, even when I was doing more fruit, so I'd chalk that up again to whatever else is going on. I was going to mix some charcoal with an egg, but I'm certain if I do that that I will puke.

any thoughts?

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I finally got a call back from the cross-fit guy about the class tomorrow (into class is only once a week) So I'll probably have to bale on that unfortunately till next time.

[Paleo Donk]

Sorry to hear about the horrible results - Any reason you chose to eat such a large amount of carbs instead of reintroducing them back more slowly?

[djr_81]

FWIW I've had similar symptoms a couple times in the past pre-RAF. Each time was while I was sticking to eating low carb (almost exclusively baked chicken thighs) and I had a carb splurge of a couple sodas at night with dinner. I'd start feeling unpleasant and eventually while lying in bed I'd get the serious nausea and sit up half the night experiencing everything you posted. The only addition was the brain fog I'd get (the night of it'd be like I was buzzed but it was more pronounced for at least a day or two afterwards). I attribute this to a surge of food to the Candida.
Oh yeah, now that I think of it I had the same thing happen once years before that. Again, I was eating LC as a result of the food allergies and Candida. My wife (girlfriend at the time) and I had had a rough week so we decided we'd do a bit of drinking. I made a horrible blended concoction of potato vodka and frozen blueberries. Horrible experience including all you've mentioned except hallucinations. Part of it was being drunk, part was my unknown allergy to potato, and the rest was Candida. God that was a rough night; I'm glad I can't do that again.

I'm not saying it's definitely a result of Candida but it's a possibility.

[KD]

Sorry to hear about the horrible results - Any reason you chose to eat such a large amount of carbs instead of reintroducing them back more slowly?

heh, well my scientific reasoning is a bit dodgy on that. I had been trying 1 piece of fruit here and there for the last 3 mo, which had inconclusive results because my main symptom is fatigue, and I feel that anyway doing VLC or ZC. So I wanted to see if eating over 150 g would result in a break from ketosis and I might feel more energy. I only ended up eating 60 g anyway, which is still considered to be quite low AFAIK.

Oh yeah, now that I think of it I had the same thing happen once years before that. Again, I was eating LC as a result of the food allergies and Candida. My wife (girlfriend at the time) and I had had a rough week so we decided we'd do a bit of drinking. I made a horrible blended concoction of potato vodka and frozen blueberries. Horrible experience including all you've mentioned except hallucinations. Part of it was being drunk, part was my unknown allergy to potato, and the rest was Candida. God that was a rough night; I'm glad I can't do that again.

I'm not saying it's definitely a result of Candida but it's a possibility.

thanks, yeah. The only thing is is that I'm not feeling any of my typical symptoms of candida (ear itching/fatigue), just the stomach flu like symptoms and headaches. I've basically been sleeping all day. Ironically I've read numerous reports of people even on RAF having problems with oysters a traditionally eaten raw food, so I suggest that is more the culprit, but because of the additional symptoms like the headache, and I'm basically otherwise doing the same thing day in and out, I'll maintain for the time being that this process is some kind of detox as if If it was true food poisoning I wouldn't be feeling at all better right now.

Other than the clay, you should just let detoxes happen naturally. People generally find that the detoxes get reduced in terms off frequency, duration and severity and stop after a few years - I started getting minor detoxes(mild flu-like symptoms) occurring once every 2 to 4 months, lasting from 2 to 7 days, but they disappeared completely after 2-3 years.

[KD]

Well, I finally coerced myself into some upchuck action by just staring into the toilet this morning. What came up was a white pasty substance and nothing else. SO most likely some residue from the oysters, although the only other thing it might be is the frozen pork suet I eat. I've been eating it for over 6 weeks, and it hasn't appeared to cause any problems, but its admittedly kinda dodgy. I though I've read a report here that said fat like suet can build up in the stomach, but don't remember if this was just a member's hypothesis.

I took a bunch of HCL as a litle precaution/remedy, just on a whim that this might clear up any remaining stuff. Turns out I ended up taking 8 pills without any noticeable burn, which I was getting after 1-2 pills just a few months ago, and decided they were totally unnecessary. This is discouraging, but I will wait till i'm feeling better (and have eaten within a reasonable time frame) and test again.

still 'fasting', waiting for all symptoms to subside.