Merged DR discussions...

[goodsamaritan]

Hey Hans89, are you DR in disguise?  
Why do you keep promoting that guy?
Do you have any success with being FRUITARIAN?

[Hans89]

Hey Hans89, are you DR in disguise?  
Why do you keep promoting that guy?
Do you have any success with being FRUITARIAN?

How do I promote the guy? Can you provide some proof for that? There have been a lot of posts on him by other people on here. He just posted this photo on his facebook, I checked it out and was quite surprised about how good he looks.... something worth discussing, methinks. He might be cheating, who knows. Btw, he is not 100% fruitarian but also eats some greens.

[goodsamaritan]

Ah well in that case, my teacher Barefoot Herbalist MH promotes fruitarianism and he's doing quite well.  Albeit he doesn't have teeth anymore because he lost them during his SAD days and blames dairy for it.

I believe Barefoot gets by with his fruitarianism because he makes what he calls longevity spices.  These are his blend of nuts and fruits that grow in his surroundings.  He's found a combination of fruitarian food that works for him.

Durian rider survives because durian is cheap and plentiful in Thailand.  Durian is the key.

I remember Iguana saying when he was in Thailand he had a 90% durian diet for weeks and weeks... crazy.

When we were healing my son of TB I there was that 2 week period during durian season when he ate a 50/50 diet of durian and raw bloody beef.  I invested in durians to treat my son.

There is a German guy and his family who are vegan / fruitarian and he says the #1 key fruit is durian.  It is an ancient - aka - paleo fruit that is the most nutritious.  Plus they process a pound of raw greens a day.

I have access to durians here in Manila, but they are just sooo expensive I can't make it a staple food.

[Hans89]

What's in durian that's so special? I've only eaten it once, so expensive here. Durianrider lives in Australia afaik, not sure about the durian situation there. He just went to Thailand (for vacation?) and made some videos I guess. I wonder about the importance of eating / juicing greens. Some guy on youtube said it was key for the success of raw veganism. Personally I'd love to eat some more fruit, but my body seems to reject more than a little. I blame fructose and maybe certain acids. Maybe I can resolve this somehow, not sure.

[alphagruis]

Durian is certainly a unique fruit with a lot of protein and maybe other nutriments and overall nutriment density not found in other fruits and it would be of great interest to know if man can indeed survive on it's monodiet over a prolonged period of many years. A few months is certainly OK. As every fruit it's seasonal and no wild animal or any of our paleo ancestors could probably eat this fruit the whole year round.

My experience with it is that I systematically tend to overeat it because it tastes so great. This makes me sleepy as a snake after a monthly meal.

By the way DR's 3000 to 8000 cal a day of fruit and greens seems crazy. I doubt that he has done or can do this over a prolonged period and most of this food is probably not properly digested.  





  

[ForTheHunt]

Durian is certainly a unique fruit with a lot of protein and maybe other nutriments and overall nutriment density not found in other fruits and it would be of great interest to know if man can indeed survive on it's monodiet over a prolonged period of many years. A few months is certainly OK. As every fruit it's seasonal and no wild animal or any of our paleo ancestors could probably eat this fruit the whole year round.

My experience with it is that I systematically tend to overeat it because it tastes so great. This makes me sleepy as a snake after a monthly meal.

By the way DR's 3000 to 8000 cal a day of fruit and greens seems crazy. I doubt that he has done or can do this over a prolonged period and most of this food is probably not properly digested.  





  

He's a long-distance athlete. He trains all day so so he can eat that much with out problems.

[carnivore]

Durian is certainly a unique fruit with a lot of protein and maybe other nutriments and overall nutriment density not found in other fruits and it would be of great interest to know if man can indeed survive on it's monodiet over a prolonged period of many years. A few months is certainly OK. As every fruit it's seasonal and no wild animal or any of our paleo ancestors could probably eat this fruit the whole year round.

My experience with it is that I systematically tend to overeat it because it tastes so great. This makes me sleepy as a snake after a monthly meal.

By the way DR's 3000 to 8000 cal a day of fruit and greens seems crazy. I doubt that he has done or can do this over a prolonged period and most of this food is probably not properly digested.  

Durian has 1.5% of protein, like any other fruits.
Personnaly, I have troubles digesting it (burpings), like others BTW.
I know someone (instincto) who spent several months in Thailand eating only durian, he ended up almost dead...

[B.Money]

I don't see what looks great/impressive in that picture... can somebody point it out?

[KD]

I don't see what looks great/impressive in that picture... can somebody point it out?

I've 'followed' this guy for 5 years and havn't seen any remarkable improvement in physique or performance and he comes across as more and more unhealthy in the same manner as buddies of mine who were actually on the diet longer and than finally crapped out. I've seen ultra-marathoners with much better builds and muscle tone and ones that even win that are conventional vegans so its not just neglecting animal fats and proteins. For someone that dedicates their life to pursuing health (and now probably has an excessive bankroll to do so due to thousand dollar consultations) he's clearly not getting the best results from the proposed best methods. So to me the points about him looking good would only be from the perspective of one who already had a very poor opinion of the possibility of doing well on such a diet or one who is on the diet that has an incredibly distorted concept of what is healthy.

Honestly if I knew nothing about this person and I saw him squatting next to a building smoking a cigarette with a fast food visor on it I wouldn't turn my head.

Although taking in more range of fatty fruits throughout the year and living in the tropics are major advantages, I know people in the NE for most of their stint on this approach so this isn't exactly a valid criticism and should not validate it as an acceptable strategy for overcoming issues. I also think he is known like many to neglect most 'overt' fats for most of the year so I think it has more to do with the simple idea that people can live for a long time and burn nitro, but not hide from the cellular damage and toxic matter interacting with fruit sugar.  In the end the ignored warning signs and inevitable breakdown is sad and scary to watch. Its not just an issue of deficiency of fats or proteins as the conventional vegans would certainly be the first to go down or have performance issues.

That said he probably is right in a number of ways where he dissuades people from fasting and under eating and all the other myths of breathetarianism and such so fantasized by most in the raw vegan movement. embracing things like b-12 etc and not all the standard NH bullshit. He does seem to look a little fuller in the most recent shots, so kudos for that.

 

[ForTheHunt]

I don't see what looks great/impressive in that picture... can somebody point it out?

He looks healthy and happy.

[goodsamaritan]

Maybe it is the combination of:

- His genetic traits.
- The fruits he eats
- The activity he does
- The vasectomy he got (this perverts human anatomy more than people commonly think)

He's not obsessed with gaining health as we are.
(if he was obsessed about health he would never get a vasectomy)

What is more important for him is that his wishful thinking that cute cuddly lovable animals should not be eaten.  Why he thinks nature should be so savage about its FOOD CHAIN.  His mission is to turn humans from being TOP PREDITOR to HERBIVORE.

Paul Nison took a long time before he was forced to eat animal food.
As Dr Stanly Bass said, all extreme diets have limited value.

It is RPD that is the human normal.

I hopped around diets because I was looking to gain health because I lost sooo much health.  I wanted to gain a lot of health.  This is why I do RPD.  And this is why we are here, to gain the best health possible.

[Nation]

In one of his video, he says he doesn't often eat durians because it's too high in fat. Whenever he shows what he's eating, it's usually bananas and dates. The 80/10/10 diet is for the most part a banana-date diet, it's pretty difficult to get ~1800 calories a day without eating either one. Most raw vegans aren't even raw foodists, they're dry foodist, they eat so much dry food (which is usually heated). Durianrider isn't raw as far as i'm concerned.

[actionhero]

His diet is blended bananas and dates, sugarcane juice and banana chips. He drinks liters of sugarcane juice every day. He can't just eat normal fruit and thrive. He needs 500-1000gr of pure sugar every day to keep the machine running. He spends hours on the toilet, urinating 14-16 times and crapping at least 3 times a day. This is what he goes through just to justify an illusion in his mind that he was not meant to eat animals.

[KD]

In one of his video, he says he doesn't often eat durians because it's too high in fat. Whenever he shows what he's eating, it's usually bananas and dates. The 80/10/10 diet is for the most part a banana-date diet, it's pretty difficult to get ~1800 calories a day without eating either one. Most raw vegans aren't even raw foodists, they're dry foodist, they eat so much dry food (which is usually heated). Durianrider isn't raw as far as i'm concerned.

I wouldn't say its healthy, but I think dates that are dried on the tree would be considered raw, and I think most of the hardcore endurance guys eat raisins and things but only ones they dry themselves. I think that is raw. It seems they too have more contempt for these 'dried' fooders than for meat eaters sometimes even though I have seen meat being quoted as 'not raw' because it is dead. uh ok. I think even some high fat/dried raw vegans or high fat cooked primals seem to have more radiant energy and just general attractiveness per natural gifts, even though I would agree that vastly, the programs (raw vegan) of these 'successful' gurus are impossible to stick to which I think is the unfortunate reason people get sucked into the 'eat all you care for' model of high fruit. On vegsource back in the day he was a really cool charismatic guy, he had photos then of sad days and he still often looks and acts either worse or the same. This is totally objective as I have no gripes against vegetarianism, and even know a long term fruitarian (only fruit) who I consider to be in impressive health in many ways. I have no conundrum in wondering why many of these people do fine for many years.

here are some comparisons.

cooked primal /cooked/raw meat primal / cooked vegan / and 2x raw vegetarian (with animal products)
http://www.bradkearns.com/   - 44
http://www.colting.se/  http://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/images/4/704-medium_Jonas1.jpg   - 40+?
http://www.ultrarunning.com/ultra/moxiepix/b1_837.jpg -37
http://rawmodelcom.blogspot.com/2008/08/modeling-pics.html - 28?
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/46a/c8d/46ac8d14-d656-4a67-8f18-0e7bc82fd08d - 59

the thing about 'lfrv' is that they talk of big calorie amounts and so forth, but even with decreasing their activity they cannot gain even normal weight or muscle. You can of course build visible muscle tissue on vegans diets (and especially cooked processed vegan 'bodybuilder' diets) but not only will all the fruit take its toll but it clearly doesn't function as a normal 'calorie' or carries the nutrient present in animal foods for growth in either athletics or deep tissue and disease repair. I'm a hard gainer, and I know if I start taking in 3500,4000+ calories I can bulk up like crazy, so a few days off a bike at 6000+ should be insane weight gain. Almost all the people Graham had on these diets (even professional athletes with no health history) originally had crapped out or quit, and since he wrote the book even people mentioned in the book have quit. I used to interact with old school healers and stuff and they remember people in the 80's and 90's that would come in from frutarian diets after a decade or so and they wouldn't even be much to do to work with them getting better. Also that many people had spontaneously dropped dead during races and such. Fred Bisci and Stanley Bass who have been around like forever and have more years experience eating high fruit than most (including DR) other than a few old zombies will tell the same thing.

[alphagruis]

Durian has 1.5% of protein, like any other fruits.

Ah, I had in mind ( maybe because I was told by instinctos ?) that protein and other nutriments was substantially higher than other fruits....

 Reference, carnivore? What about other nutriments?

Anyway, eating this fruit always induced a strong feeling of satiety.

[actionhero]

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/46a/c8d/46ac8d14-d656-4a67-8f18-0e7bc82fd08d - 59

That's Dr. Robert Cassar, a former MD who injects himself daily with expensive HGH and claims we can live on superfood powders. Most people who go the superfoods route of powders and stimulants end up worse than SAD eaters. He only recommends these powders because he's been paid by a company to promote their products. He definitely has a impressive physique (see video below) but what you see is the result of steroids and hgh not superfoods. But people see his body and automatically associate it with the products he's promoting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUIimYiMGaw

[carnivore]

Ah, I had in mind ( maybe because I was told by instinctos ?) that protein and other nutriments was substantially higher than other fruits....

 Reference, carnivore? What about other nutriments?

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/2088/2

Anyway, eating this fruit always induced a strong feeling of satiety.

Because of the high carbs (27.1%) and fat (5.3%) content.

[KD]

That's Dr. Robert Cassar, a former MD who injects himself daily with expensive HGH and claims we can live on superfood powders. Most people who go the superfoods route of powders and stimulants end up worse than SAD eaters.

yeah, I didn't really pick any people I necessarily thought were thriving long term. if I truly thought that they were I wouldn't be following RPD. I thought it was inappropriate to use people on this site, only gurus and athletes that had better muscle tone and looked well for their age (not that their skills or looks wern't deceiving). The very fact that they arn't actually doing well seems to be further confirmation that you can't fudge this stuff no matter how much crap you get rid of in your diet if you rely on unhealthy foods and combinations or ditch healthy ones due to theories and morals. Most people that eat conventional vegan diets end up with issues eventually as well, but Scott Jurek at least has a vascular body and actually wins races. He might have a longer career than some SAD runners but not necessarily better health long term than a healthy omnivore (even if not restricted to cooked paleo or primal nevermind raw). Colting, having the most RAF and least sugar probably will continue to race longer and live longer, but yeah I'm not saying he doesn't use any performance enhancers either, he claims to reject most non-primal things. The constant batter of steroids on this site and among vegans is so misplaced, there is a difference between an edge and a panacea. obviously anyone who takes steroids does not win events or look incredible. especially if everyone is taking them.

I challenge anyone to take steroids and see if they can get Cassar's results (as a disclaimer, don't do this). He probably has adrenal burnout from stimulants and such and all the other eventual issues resulting from vegetarianism (unless he's moved into dairy and such from bee products), I have no confirmation on steroid use but again he's made quite a transformation in 4-5? years and is almost 60, so if people object to his other methods as being unatural, it does change that he does largely consume those types of things and refrains from sweet fruits and not to mention 'looks well'. As I understand it, the guy was a multi-millionaire before starting raw, and a high fruit diet was not the technology he selected to get the results he wanted. In the choice between two deadly things, I wouldn't necessarily go with what is most natural seeming and I think that is an extreme false logic that people get swept up in. I believe alot of his magnetic technologies, fungal decontaminates and mushrooms and things probably have effected his tissue. Whether they work for everyone is not important to me other than the simple thing that you point out which is appearance is just one piece of the puzzle.

With fruit eaters they arn't passing these basic tests or looking well. I personally believe mastery of ones body is a requirement for being taken seriously as a supreme level of health. The actual build one chooses to be is a different story of course. but if people cannot build muscle and size with effort (like Cassar is able to do with 'raw' foods OR Jurek by not having excessive soft tissue due to overgrowth that Cassar speaks about) even eating thousands of calories above base metobolic than their methods are not superior for healing tissue (quite the opposite) and foods not 'nutritious' for lack of a better term. Not to mention the dangers in excess which have been pointed out by experts of many persuasions.

[alphagruis]

Thanks carnivore.

It's fat and not protein that is high in this sweet fruit.

[kurite]

Hi I was on one of my old raw vegan sites cause I still use their recipes and found a post by durianrider that said this.

"Ive got 9 raw paleo friends that are ALL low in b12 and they just eat massive amounts of raw animal products hoping to improve their b12 status but it clearly is not working and what is happening is their health and fitness is going downhill. They could just take a supp and all would be cool but thats not 'raw'..."

I wouldn't think less of any of you but is anyone on this forum actually friends with durianrider or know of raw paleos actually being his friend?

[KD]

Before I started eating raw animal products, I was extremely deficient in b-12. I had pernicious anemia and had to get 2 separate doses (which is less than average I guess) of shots and that got me at the very low range and since then animal products have done me aces. He's probably right that many people of any raw persuasion are too blinded for their own good sometimes. Thats certainly no criticism of paleo. Theres plenty of vegans who are way more stubborn, seeing since there is way more chance of absorbing b-12 from animal foods than plant foods, even if animal foods do not necessarily correct the imbalances that many people (including SWD) have that contribute to the problem. Mine was definitely previous issues as well as veganism. Interestingly, Doug Graham does not believe in prophylactic treatment for ANYTHING, unless it is an emergency, and that all these things correct themselves with proper supervised fasting and 'proper' diet. So its great that he is acknowledging some faults in that logic, but its why the constant references ot SAD or omni folks, or paleos friends,  making it 'not there issue'. which is false still statistically.

judging by that last video, with mr. Tupperware fantastic, I don't think his 'friends' are going to be signing his birthday cards anymore.

btw.

why can't all this stuff just go in one single thread? Is this really worth a whole conversation? Also, since he's banned from almost every site other than his own, what the hell kind of recipes are of use there? banana chip trail mix? highly suspicious.

[RawZi]

    I know a lot of raw paleos.  None have ever said they are friends with or that they even like dr.  I haven't taken a b12 supp in almost 20 yrs.  None of my rp friends have ever indicated to me in any way that they supp b12.

[Hans89]

Durianrider and vitamin b12....


Here is his boasting with the great results of his blood tests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O_A6Mh1J48&feature=related

0:42 He's been a vegan for 9 years and raw vegan for 4 years
7:04 Presenting his vitamin b12 levels....... and he goes WOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba_ok5KofKk&feature=related

2:11 He admits he's supplementing and blames it on his health past (how long does it take till you can absorb b12??? Raw vegan for 4 years...)

And in his latest video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziii06L4Oc4

7:47 "I'm not a purist, yeah I'll shoot myself up b12 injections in my arm"


OK.....

[RawZi]

Durianrider and vitamin b12....


Here is his boasting with the great results of his blood tests:
7:04 Presenting his vitamin b12 levels....... and he goes WOW

2:11 He admits he's supplementing and blames it on his health past

And in his latest video:
7:47 "I'm not a purist, yeah I'll shoot myself up b12 injections in my arm"

    His B 12 is  >1450 when normal range is 140 - 700.  From what I've seen with B vitamin levels in all the human bodies, if one B vitamin is high, a corresponding B vitamin is low.  He should show every B vitamin level at the same time.  What's his MMA level anyway?  Even with apparent good B12, doctors will check the MMA in a healthy vegan.  

    Arm?  When I was a skinny vegan I had to B12 it in my gluteus maximus, or use a smaller needle.  He does it himself?  Twenty years ago when I did it I could.  Shortly after on this side of the world you needed a doctor's prescription (which with my b12 levels being normal I could not get b12 rx) and a nurse to inject it.  I guess it's different in Asia and Australia.

    At least we know his age now on a paper, unless he has a sister named Harla, a young one.

[goodsamaritan]

Do people really need to do all these blood tests?

When I did raw vegan and raw fruitarian, I just had a weighing scale and watched how low my weight dropped.

I just had the constant aghast concern of my friends and family about how gaunt and thin I was getting to be.

Now on Raw Paleo Diet no one's complaining about the way I look. 

The only ones complaining I look too thin are the obese people.