Newcomer. Going raw paleo to HOPEFULLY help clear up acne

[BDon]

Hey guys, I am brand new to the world of paleo.  The main reason I am deciding to try it is to see if it helps with my acne at all, but am interested in the many other benefits as well.  I have a few questions though. 
1.  Those that eat raw meat, organic grass fed is good right?  I usually just eat regular organic because grass fed is pretty expensive but if I was eating raw I guess I would just spend more for the grass fed.
2.  When you switched to raw paleo, did your grocery bill go up?
3.  Has anyone that had a problem with acne noticed any clearing when switching to this diet?
4.  Right now I am away at college so it doesn't matter, but after this semester I am moving back home and have no idea how I'm going to convince my parents that eating raw meat is not going to kill me.  Any suggestions?
Any advice for a newcomer would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks!

[kurite]

Hey guys, I am brand new to the world of paleo.  The main reason I am deciding to try it is to see if it helps with my acne at all, but am interested in the many other benefits as well.  I have a few questions though. 
1.  Those that eat raw meat, organic grass fed is good right?  I usually just eat regular organic because grass fed is pretty expensive but if I was eating raw I guess I would just spend more for the grass fed.
2.  When you switched to raw paleo, did your grocery bill go up?
3.  Has anyone that had a problem with acne noticed any clearing when switching to this diet?
4.  Right now I am away at college so it doesn't matter, but after this semester I am moving back home and have no idea how I'm going to convince my parents that eating raw meat is not going to kill me.  Any suggestions?
Any advice for a newcomer would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks!

1. Yes grass fed organic is much more superior than just organic.
2. Yes the grocery bill shot up a little but if done right it does not have to be terrible.
3. Yes acne went away and didn't show up until i went back to a sad diet.
4. I have the same problem they still hate the idea of it. I would just say you've been doing it for a while and it hasn't hurt you yet.
Eat warm meat first its much easier to handle. And if you have mental  problems with eating raw meat start with raw eggs.

[TylerDurden]

Better to buy 100% grassfed, nonorganic meat than organic, grainfed meat, IMO. Many grassfed farmers can't afford to convert officially to organic status but have higher quality meats than many bigger organic producers.

Re bills:- My spending on rawpalaeo foods is about the same as I spent on food in general before the  rawpalaeodiet. You see I used to spend a lot of money, pre-rpd diet, on things like sweets, crisps("chips" to americans?), chocolate and other processed junk in addition to regular meals. There are also ways to reduce costs such as buying from 100% grassfed, nonorganic farmers, or buying  a lot of organ-meats which are cheaper than muscle-meats,  or buying cheaper cuts of meats like stewing steak or buying raw wild game direct from farmers(raw wild game, ironically, is far superior to raw grassfed meats, nutrition-wise).

As for acne, I don't recall having that, though I had other major issues with inflammation of the skin over most areas of my body at various times, which went away when I went rawpalaeo.

[majormark]

With family, you can just do eggs, butter or make yourself a stake tartar meal which is more socially acceptable. You don't need to start biting on a raw stake right in front of them, just to make a point, unless you actually want it.

I noticed that my skin stays clear as long as I don't eat any processed junk.

[PaleoPhil]

1. Tyler is right. Grassfed is much more important than organic. "Organic" animals are often fed bad stuff. The term "vegetarian feed" is often bad, not good as there is no truly "vegetarian" animal in the wild and it frequently means feeding animals grains, soy products and sugars that are not part of their biologically appropriate diets. "Vegetarian" is a modern human term derived from the Latin word "vegetus" that is not based on the natural diet of any wild animal (http://www.ivu.org/congress/wvc57/souvenir/hough.html). When it comes to red meats look for the term "100% grassfed" ("pasture fed" would be more accurate) and learn what you can about the farm that produces it.
2.  Yes, though eating animal fats and organs helps keep the bill down
3. Yes, it stays completely away as long as I avoid all carbs. Eating even small amounts of carb foods, even raw fruit, brings back small outbreaks, but I have been recently eating some fruits again about once a week and living with the zit or two that results. I'm not certain whether I'll continue that or not.
4. Would your parents accept jerky and other dried meats, raw eggs, sashimi, steak tartare, and/or eating raw meats in your room where they don't have to see it?

[goodsamaritan]

Wai Genriiu stumbled on the raw paleo diet with her Wai Diet
http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/

As a cure for acne.

I did wai diet for a while but was curious at raw land animal meat.  I Got bored with just fish.

She has a lot of research in her websites.

Yes my food bill is way way up.  But I don't get sick.  I spend zero money on medications.  I spend zero money on herbs.  And I spend zero money on doctors.

[BDon]

Thanks for all the advice guys.  I've decided to start right away that away when I move back home I can truthfully tell my parents I have been doing if for a couple months and I am fine.  I have just recently gotten them to accept my eating raw eggs, so hopefully the meat won't be too hard for them to take.  Would you recommend I slowly work my into raw, as in cooking my meat less and less until I am eventually eating raw, or just jumping straight into it?  Also, what would you recommend as a starting out diet, like next time I go to the store what would you suggest my shopping list be made up of?  For grass fed animals, the few times I have gotten them I purchased them online at grasslandbeef.com.  It comes shipped to your door packed frozen in dry ice and usually comes the next day.  In Tallahassee, where I go to school, I have yet to find a store that sells grass fed so I just use the site, but there is a Whole foods back home so does anyone know if they sell grass fed there?

[BDon]

1. Yes grass fed organic is much more superior than just organic.
2. Yes the grocery bill shot up a little but if done right it does not have to be terrible.
3. Yes acne went away and didn't show up until i went back to a sad diet.
4. I have the same problem they still hate the idea of it. I would just say you've been doing it for a while and it hasn't hurt you yet.
Eat warm meat first its much easier to handle. And if you have mental  problems with eating raw meat start with raw eggs.

By warm meat, do you just mean take it out of ther fridge and let it reach room temperature before I consume it?

[BDon]

1. Tyler is right. Grassfed is much more important than organic. "Organic" animals are often fed bad stuff. The term "vegetarian feed" is often bad, not good as there is no truly "vegetarian" animal in the wild and it frequently means feeding animals grains, soy products and sugars that are not part of their biologically appropriate diets. "Vegetarian" is a modern human term derived from the Latin word "vegetus" that is not based on the natural diet of any wild animal (http://www.ivu.org/congress/wvc57/souvenir/hough.html). When it comes to red meats look for the term "100% grassfed" ("pasture fed" would be more accurate) and learn what you can about the farm that produces it.
2.  Yes, though eating animal fats and organs helps keep the bill down
3. Yes, it stays completely away as long as I avoid all carbs. Eating even small amounts of carb foods, even raw fruit, brings back small outbreaks, but I have been recently eating some fruits again about once a week and living with the zit or two that results. I'm not certain whether I'll continue that or not.
4. Would your parents accept jerky and other dried meats, raw eggs, sashimi, steak tartare, and/or eating raw meats in your room where they don't have to see it?

Is jerkey better than cooked meat?  My health food store sells organic turkey jerkey that is very tasty.  I usually get a couple packs of it every time I didn't know it was any better for you than cooked meat.

[kurite]

By warm meat, do you just mean take it out of ther fridge and let it reach room temperature before I consume it?

yes just let it sit our for a while, couple hours.

Is jerkey better than cooked meat?  My health food store sells organic turkey jerkey that is very tasty.  I usually get a couple packs of it every time I didn't know it was any better for you than cooked meat.

Most jerky is cooked but at lower temperatures. I personally would rather have cooked grass fed beef than terkey jerkey but thats just because trueky has very little fat generally.

[BDon]

Ok I'll start letting it sit out before eating from now on.  Yea I only get the turkey jerkey because that store doesn't seem to have beef jerkey, but if i start buying from grasslandbeef.com, they have beef jerkey so I will get some of that for when Im on the run and can't carry a raw sirloin around with me, lol/.

[KD]

I think by jerkys people might mean making your own? I know most jerky will have all kinds of addatives, perhaps not from grass fed beef suppliers. I know even health-food store bacon's seem to almost all have sugar in it, which is crazy.

I would call the whole foods maybe now to find out/form a strategy if they do not.

there are three by me, I think all carry grass-fed ground meat, but only one seems to regularly get grass-fed cuts that are affordable anyway. They all seem to carry New Zealand lamb, which is grass-fed at least to some degree.  Then there are wild caught fishes, which they are good at labeling whether they are frozen or not, although the good ones like tuna or salmon are almost always really pricey.

[miles]

I would eat the meat straight out of the fridge, and put what you don't eat straight back in when you're done. It's much nicer fresh, there's no need to let the bacteria breed and reduce the quality of the meat...

When people say Jerky, don't they just mean air-dried meat with no additives whatsoever?

If you have acne, it's likely you'd have to eat meat, fat & water only, for it to go away and stay away. With raw meat/fat I have no desire for fruit/veg at all. That's why I started eating raw, because I could tell the fruit was affecting me badly(inflammation etc) but I think I needed to balance the cooked meat out somehow. I could only put off raw fresh food(which would be fruit) for so long, before I had to have it. No such need when I'm eating my meat raw.

As far as going to the long effort of making 'Jerky' so that you can eat it when you're 'on the run', I'd think you'd find you'd be much better just eating more fresh meat & fat at the sittings you can manage, and you'll probably find you won't need to cram snack jerky in before you can get your next meal as the fresh meat/fat will probably be able to satisfy you for many hours.

The thing to make Jerky for would be if you're going on a long journey and won't be sure when you'll next be able to buy/hunt fresh meat. So it's a good reserve to keep you going.

[William]

The thing to make Jerky for would be if you're going on a long journey and won't be sure when you'll next be able to buy/hunt fresh meat. So it's a good reserve to keep you going.

Jerky is not the answer for trips, not enough fat. Pemmican rules the road.

[miles]

hmm 'Pemmican Jerky'? =)

[kurite]

If you have acne, it's likely you'd have to eat meat, fat & water only, for it to go away and stay away. With raw meat/fat I have no desire for fruit/veg at all.

This is completely innacurate. How can you explain raw vegans have all their acne go away than? I would know I use to be one. and all my acne went away.
 

[PaleoPhil]

Is jerkey better than cooked meat?  My health food store sells organic turkey jerkey that is very tasty.  I usually get a couple packs of it every time I didn't know it was any better for you than cooked meat.

As was stated, store jerky is cooked and has additives. Home-made raw jerky is better than cooked meat. You should eat fat with jerky when possible, or eat pemmican, as was suggested.

Quote from: miles on Today at 07:21:38 PM
If you have acne, it's likely you'd have to eat meat, fat & water only, for it to go away and stay away. With raw meat/fat I have no desire for fruit/veg at all.

This is completely innacurate. How can you explain raw vegans have all their acne go away than? I would know I use to be one. and all my acne went away.
 

Actually, I have had that exact experience (even small amounts of whole, raw, fresh fruit give me acne outbreaks and did so even before I went completely ZC), though I don't claim that it applies to everyone. I think it's best that we each speak for ourselves rather than for each other.

[kurite]

Actually, I have had that exact experience (even small amounts of whole, raw, fresh fruit give me acne outbreaks and did so even before I went completely ZC

How much fruit were you regularly consuming before going zc?

though I don't claim that it applies to everyone. I think it's best that we each speak for ourselves rather than for each other.

Agreed. Do what works.

[PaleoPhil]

How much fruit were you regularly consuming before going zc?
Agreed. Do what works.

I didn't go quickly cold turkey to ZC--I went gradually and grudgingly to LC, then VLC, then ZC--so it depends when before ZC you mean. Before going LC I had been increasing my consumption of raw fruits and whole-fruit smoothies in an effort to gain weight and increase potassium. I noticed that my acne, IBS, potassium-cramps in my foot, nightmares, etc. worsened as I did so and I didn't succeed in bulking up. Instead, my energy and strength declined and I seemed to be withering away. All this was part of what led me to think that lower carb might be worth trying.

The fact that my potassium cramps got worse rather than better was particularly suprising to me, since I was eating so-called high-potassium foods like bananas and taking potassium supplements. The improvements from lowering carbs began early on, but it wasn't until I got my carbs down to VLC and I greatly increased my intake of raw red meats and fats that my potassium cramps were diminished to very low levels. This was quite a shock to me. I later learned from William and elsewhere that carbs bind with minerals like potassium (though there are disagreements on what effects this has on absorption). I originally didn't intend to go ZC at all, but as I gradually reduced my carb levels I noticed improvements right from the start and greater and greater improvements every step of the way. I know some people consider raw fruits as perfectly good food, but for me they have not proven so. I'm not saying that this necessarily applies to anyone else, just reporting my experience. I like fruits and am trying to find a way to incorporate a small amount of them in my diet without triggering negative effects, so it's not at all a matter of me wishing to be ZC or even VLC.

Apparently I'm not the only person to experience problems with raw fruit. Dr. Kurt Harris and others report not doing well healthwise when their fruit intake gets too high. Dr. Harris goes as far as discouraging anyone from eating any fruit other than moderate amounts of berries:

"Fruit is just a candy bar from a tree. Stick with berries and avoid watermelon which is pure fructose. Eat in moderation." (http://www.paleonu.com/get-started).

Dr. Harris' advice does match my personal experience. I've also noticed that the folks who eat lots of fresh, raw, whole fruits, such as the 811ers, tend to experience many of the same health problems that I did (including acne in some cases) and more.

If I want to have acne break out on my face (and possibly scalp, chest and back) tomorrow I have found that all I have to do is eat sufficient fruit--especially sugary tropical fruits or fruit smoothies or juices, but even sufficient low-sugar fruit has done it in the past. Then, if I want to get rid of the acne within a day or two, I just go back to eating meat and fat. I have replicated this multiple times and it didn't start only after I had been ZC for a while. In retrospect it's not surprising, since sugars are strongly linked to acne. The idea that raw fruit sugars--even from fresh, raw, fiber-rich fruits--are somehow exempt from this does not appear to hold up in my case.

Gary Taubes reports that the research of Peter Mayes and Jorgensen C. Reiser found that "given sufficient time, high-fructose diets can induce high insulin levels, high blood sugar, and insulin resistance, even though in the short term fructose has little effect on either blood sugar or insulin and so a very low glycemic index." (GCBC, pp. 200-201). Insulin resistance is connected to acne (Dr. Cordain - Ph.D. in Health: Audio Interview, http://www.acne.org/interviews/2008/07/10/dr-cordain-phd-in-health/). Interestingly, I have never been diagnosed with insulin resistance (though some of my relatives have), so perhaps even sub-clinical levels of insulin resistance can contribute to acne, or maybe other mechanisms are at work in me.

YMMV--for example, Tyler appears to tolerate raw whole fruits much better than I do.

[Stig of the Dump]

4.  Right now I am away at college so it doesn't matter, but after this semester I am moving back home and have no idea how I'm going to convince my parents that eating raw meat is not going to kill me.  Any suggestions?

My brother is from the medical world and had a hard time with me not getting food poisoning.

His moment of truth came in the middle of an argument when I said to him:  "So you are saying a caveman, who plucks a salmon out of a stream and bites into its flank, is in danger of dying of food poisoning?"

At that point I could see a light go on, as his argument changed to:  "Is it possible for me to get foods of that sort of quality?", which is a truly worthwhile question.  From then on, although we still differed, we were singing from the same hymn sheet.

[TylerDurden]

Re raw watermelon:- I love and absolutely thrive on the stuff, 1 reason among 100s why I doubt Taubes' mostly ridiculous claims. My only issue is with 1 or 2 of the raw tropical fruits(at least I think so - I haven't eaten things like raw mangoes or raw papayas in years) and of course any processed fruits with sulphites added to them etc. I of course have experienced nutrient malabsorption on RZC(re teeth deterioration), so perhaps fruit-consumption enhances some absorption in my case.

[letsdoiteczema]

My brother is from the medical world and had a hard time with me not getting food poisoning.

His moment of truth came in the middle of an argument when I said to him:  "So you are saying a caveman, who plucks a salmon out of a stream and bites into its flank, is in danger of dying of food poisoning?"

At that point I could see a light go on, as his argument changed to:  "Is it possible for me to get foods of that sort of quality?", which is a truly worthwhile question.  From then on, although we still differed, we were singing from the same hymn sheet.

This is absolutely golden. Going to save this. Thank you!

[letsdoiteczema]

I didn't go quickly cold turkey to ZC--I went gradually and grudgingly to LC, then VLC, then ZC--so it depends when before ZC you mean. Before going LC I had been increasing my consumption of raw fruits and whole-fruit smoothies in an effort to gain weight and increase potassium. I noticed that my acne, IBS, potassium-cramps in my foot, nightmares, etc. worsened as I did so and I didn't succeed in bulking up. Instead, my energy and strength declined and I seemed to be withering away. All this was part of what led me to think that lower carb might be worth trying.

The fact that my potassium cramps got worse rather than better was particularly suprising to me, since I was eating so-called high-potassium foods like bananas and taking potassium supplements. The improvements from lowering carbs began early on, but it wasn't until I got my carbs down to VLC and I greatly increased my intake of raw red meats and fats that my potassium cramps were diminished to very low levels. This was quite a shock to me. I later learned from William and elsewhere that carbs bind with minerals like potassium (though there are disagreements on what effects this has on absorption). I originally didn't intend to go ZC at all, but as I gradually reduced my carb levels I noticed improvements right from the start and greater and greater improvements every step of the way. I know some people consider raw fruits as perfectly good food, but for me they have not proven so. I'm not saying that this necessarily applies to anyone else, just reporting my experience. I like fruits and am trying to find a way to incorporate a small amount of them in my diet without triggering negative effects, so it's not at all a matter of me wishing to be ZC or even VLC.

Apparently I'm not the only person to experience problems with raw fruit. Dr. Kurt Harris and others report not doing well healthwise when their fruit intake gets too high. Dr. Harris goes as far as discouraging anyone from eating any fruit other than moderate amounts of berries:

"Fruit is just a candy bar from a tree. Stick with berries and avoid watermelon which is pure fructose. Eat in moderation." (http://www.paleonu.com/get-started).

Dr. Harris' advice does match my personal experience. I've also noticed that the folks who eat lots of fresh, raw, whole fruits, such as the 811ers, tend to experience many of the same health problems that I did (including acne in some cases) and more.

If I want to have acne break out on my face (and possibly scalp, chest and back) tomorrow I have found that all I have to do is eat sufficient fruit--especially sugary tropical fruits or fruit smoothies or juices, but even sufficient low-sugar fruit has done it in the past. Then, if I want to get rid of the acne within a day or two, I just go back to eating meat and fat. I have replicated this multiple times and it didn't start only after I had been ZC for a while. In retrospect it's not surprising, since sugars are strongly linked to acne. The idea that raw fruit sugars--even from fresh, raw, fiber-rich fruits--are somehow exempt from this does not appear to hold up in my case.

Gary Taubes reports that the research of Peter Mayes and Jorgensen C. Reiser found that "given sufficient time, high-fructose diets can induce high insulin levels, high blood sugar, and insulin resistance, even though in the short term fructose has little effect on either blood sugar or insulin and so a very low glycemic index." (GCBC, pp. 200-201). Insulin resistance is connected to acne (Dr. Cordain - Ph.D. in Health: Audio Interview, http://www.acne.org/interviews/2008/07/10/dr-cordain-phd-in-health/). Interestingly, I have never been diagnosed with insulin resistance (though some of my relatives have), so perhaps even sub-clinical levels of insulin resistance can contribute to acne, or maybe other mechanisms are at work in me.

YMMV--for example, Tyler appears to tolerate raw whole fruits much better than I do.

@PaleoPhil

I have no idea why no one thanked you for this incredible post.

Btw, I have the exact same experience as you - fruit causing acne. I have started ZC with tender vegetables a week ago.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks, letsdoiteczema. Since then I have found some other fruits I can tolerate small quantities of (and seemingly fairly large quantities of wild Maine blueberries, surprisingly), plus a tablespoon or two of raw fermented honey now and then, so I'm not ZC currently. So-called "safe starches" like sweet potatoes seem to be even more of a problem for me than fruits, apparently giving me lower leg edema and pain and generalized achiness.

Some of the most fascinating near-ZC info is in Lex Rooker's journal, so if you haven't checked it out yet, I recommend doing so.

[zbr5]

Full transition to eating raw meat does not always happen overnight. Even though I know this is the best diet possible, my process of switching to this diet has lasted over one year already and I am still eating only part of my meats raw. It is almost as If I was in the process of developing taste for raw meat.