Are you having trouble eating raw meat??

[Vraellie]

     The other day, I was complaining to myself how hard it is to eat raw meat without combating the barf reflex. So I went outside (I'm WWOOFing at a farm in California) and started eating. Before I knew it, a kitten came up to me and was pawing me on the leg. I gave it some of my raw ground beef and while watching it eat it became increasingly easier to eat my own beef. Eating raw with someone makes all the difference in the world! I've never come across anyone who eats raw meat before, but all animals love to eat raw meat. So the moral of this story is:

     If you can't eat your meat raw, ask a carnivore to join!

[William]

It goes down better if it is dried, even if only a little.

[TylerDurden]

Well, actually many domesticated animals are reported as having become addicted to their processed commercial pet food, despite attempts by their RVAF diet owners to get them onto raw meat diets.

That said, eating raw with others does help a great deal re getting used to the taste of raw meats - after all, most of our tastes come about due to social conditioning and habits. I often recommend that people go and eat raw sashimi with others in restaurants.

[klowcarb]

No, I feel great on raw meat. I also eat ghee, pastured lard and pastured egg yolks. I eat only raw ground beef and love it! I also think ghee is healthy, despite the claims here.

I don't think pemmican is meant to be eaten regularly, and cannot understand the fascination with wasting time making it.

Whoa, off topic 

[TylerDurden]

No, I feel great on raw meat. I also eat ghee, pastured lard and pastured egg yolks. I eat only raw ground beef and love it! I also think ghee is healthy, despite the claims here.

I don't think pemmican is meant to be eaten regularly, and cannot understand the fascination with wasting time making it.

Whoa, off topic 

  Many RVAFers do very badly on any dairy at all, ghee or otherwise, so it's not exactly wise to trumpet ghee, here, as a health-food. The reason being that the process that makes ghee doesn't get rid of the lactose and casein completely, despite some outrageously false claims by a  few,  so that some dairy-allergic people still get reactions, and then there are the heat-created toxins etc.. A minor mention in the hot topics forum in a relevant thread might be OK, but, IMO, not here.

[Ioanna]

No, I feel great on raw meat. I also eat ghee, pastured lard and pastured egg yolks. I eat only raw ground beef and love it!

yes, we still know

[KD]

This is my second time around doing RAF. I think the first time I was so deficient in fats and minerals that I found eating mostly meat (technically I started out eating mostly fish and chicken) to be enticing and enjoyable, and eating in an omni/primal style never really felt the need for more variety. Now, and even though I hadn't eaten SAD food in years (three years on raw-vegan with very few periods of simple cooked foods followed by the RAF then followed 6 mo later by clean cooked foods, mostly warrior style eating) I still don't find myself craving foods even when I prepare foods for others, but am honestly struggling with the banality/repetitiveness of how I eat this time around. One difference is I've only allowed myself a handful of fruits in over two months. I imagine eating the largest variety of animal and digestible veg foods is the secret to this.

As for the muscle meat itself I don't have any problems with/can enjoy alot depending on the cut, so I guess this is not at all helpful. Although personally ground is not one of them and find mixing with some egg and/or avocado to be more edible.

I can see how having a animal companion could be helpful, my standards for how I would need to feed one of my own are too high to realize currently as I can hardly afford to feed myself quality food.

[djr_81]

yes, we still know

Don't ever change Ioanna.

Well, actually many domesticated animals are reported as having become addicted to their processed commercial pet food, despite attempts by their RVAF diet owners to get them onto raw meat diets.

Was this discussed before on the forum Tyler? I've seen threads on BARF diets for animals but I don't remember if people went into this aspect.
FWIW I've been feeding my parents' standard poodles (litter-mate females, ~2 years old) raw meat and raw jerky as a treat for the last ~6 months and they've taken to it quite heartily. They're content with the commercial food they are fed daily but will do practically anything for a piece of liver jerky.

I can see how having a animal companion could be helpful, my standards for how I would need to feed one of my own are too high to realize currently as I can hardly afford to feed myself quality food.

It wouldn't be too bad if you were doing it with Slanker's Dog & Cat mix but it'd be a lot harder if you were sourcing local.

[RawZi]

     ... kitten came up to me and was pawing me on the leg. I gave it some of my raw ground beef and while watching it eat it became increasingly easier to eat my own beef. Eating raw with someone makes all the difference in the world! I've never come across anyone who eats raw meat before, but all animals love to eat raw meat. So the moral of this story is:

     If you can't eat your meat raw, ask a carnivore to join!

    I have a little trouble eating meat at all, but at least I can eat.  Having been vegan before, it got to a point I completely lost my digestion (food just sat in me, if I could swallow). 

    I too enjoy eating with another carnivore.  Normally I eat with my two cats, and then give leftovers to a certain cat who hangs out outside.  Problem is, his food attracts carnivore stray "friend" cats, and then I stop putting food out for a while.

    I don't eat ground beef though.  I don't like it.

[klowcarb]

yes, we still know

Lol, sorry!  It just feels great after being a vegetarian for so long, and cooking meat when I went ZC.

[Vraellie]

This is my second time around doing RAF. I think the first time I was so deficient in fats and minerals that I found eating mostly meat (technically I started out eating mostly fish and chicken) to be enticing and enjoyable, and eating in an omni/primal style never really felt the need for more variety. Now, and even though I hadn't eaten SAD food in years (three years on raw-vegan with very few periods of simple cooked foods followed by the RAF then followed 6 mo later by clean cooked foods, mostly warrior style eating) I still don't find myself craving foods even when I prepare foods for others, but am honestly struggling with the banality/repetitiveness of how I eat this time around. One difference is I've only allowed myself a handful of fruits in over two months. I imagine eating the largest variety of animal and digestible veg foods is the secret to this.

As for the muscle meat itself I don't have any problems with/can enjoy alot depending on the cut, so I guess this is not at all helpful. Although personally ground is not one of them and find mixing with some egg and/or avocado to be more edible.

I can see how having a animal companion could be helpful, my standards for how I would need to feed one of my own are too high to realize currently as I can hardly afford to feed myself quality food.

Avocado is amazing! I like to cut in half and pour chili powder where the pit was.

It is quite expensive. But on the bright side, the diet keeps them healthy enough to never need a trip to the vet. Shots be damned.

[Vraellie]

FWIW I've been feeding my parents' standard poodles (litter-mate females, ~2 years old) raw meat and raw jerky as a treat for the last ~6 months and they've taken to it quite heartily. They're content with the commercial food they are fed daily but will do practically anything for a piece of liver jerky.

Aw, thats really thoughful of you. I had no idea you could make jerky out of organ meat, let alone liver. It's always seems so slimey!

[Vraellie]

    I too enjoy eating with another carnivore.  Normally I eat with my two cats, and then give leftovers to a certain cat who hangs out outside.  Problem is, his food attracts carnivore stray "friend" cats, and then I stop putting food out for a while.

     Yeah, it's a good thing cats aren't any bigger than they are. They might eat the meat and finish off with you!

[Nation]

Lol, sorry!  It just feels great after being a vegetarian for so long, and cooking meat when I went ZC.

How was your energy when you were on cooked-ZC  (compared to raw ZC) ?

[djr_81]

I had no idea you could make jerky out of organ meat, let alone liver. It's always seems so slimey!

It works out great so long as the organ isn't high fat like tongue. I've made jerky out of heart, liver, kidney, and spleen and all dried out quite thoroughly and stored great. The trick is to cut it thin so it can dry out completely. The liver jerky I've got right now I made 6-8 weeks ago and it's showing no signs of any issues so far.

[Vraellie]

It works out great so long as the organ isn't high fat like tongue. I've made jerky out of heart, liver, kidney, and spleen and all dried out quite thoroughly and stored great. The trick is to cut it thin so it can dry out completely. The liver jerky I've got right now I made 6-8 weeks ago and it's showing no signs of any issues so far.

Do you slice it yourself or take it to a butcher? For me, it's hard to slice the meat really thin without ruining the structure into a tangled mess.

[djr_81]

Do you slice it yourself or take it to a butcher? For me, it's hard to slice the meat really thin without ruining the structure into a tangled mess.

I slice it myself. I use a ceramic knife which makes it somewhat easier for me but it is still difficult with some organs and can look like a complete mess when you're done. Drying it makes it get a bit better looking though.
Most of my organ meats, barring occasional liver, is purchased frozen so usually I semi-thaw that and cut it while still solid. This is the only reasonable way I've been able to slice tongue thinly enough for my taste (it's too tough to rip if it's too thick).

[MrBBQ]

@djr_81:
I've been jerkying liver and heart recently, mainly because I cannot develop the enjoyment for eating it raw on a daily basis (whereas I can just grab pieces of jerky and chew on them like a treat - myself being the ultimate pet). I especially cannot deal with raw heart, which I find just weird, no matter how long I keep trying it (I like my surplus CoQ10 tho').

I've been wondering about the impact of drying on organ meats and their nutrients - do you know much about nutrient loss with dehydration (B vitamins, vitamin C etc.)? I can imagine that it's minimal, given the success of pemmican in survival situations...

[KD]

do you guys use some special kind of dehydrator?

[djr_81]

I've been wondering about the impact of drying on organ meats and their nutrients - do you know much about nutrient loss with dehydration (B vitamins, vitamin C etc.)? I can imagine that it's minimal, given the success of pemmican in survival situations...

I do not know what the loss is but there definitely seems to be some denaturing going on. I can eat about 1/3 of a beef heart raw before I get a very clear and unpleasant "stop". I can dry a whole heart though and eat it without any of that same stop. I can see two possible reasons for this reaction. Either the dehydrating nature of the jerky overrides a stop (you keep eating because you're "hungry" for water but can't equate this) or the nutrition has been damaged some so you body can't get plenty of the organ before it's had too much of the micro-nutrients.
On the other hand jerky is plenty sustaining for me as a stop-gap energy boost during the day when raw foods are harder to transport (i.e. if I was out in the field doing survey take-offs) but must be supplemented at another point in the day with fat so as to not eat too much protein. It also makes a fantastic snack food when you're eating carnivore.
Don't get me started on Pemmican though.

do you guys use some special kind of dehydrator?

I've got an old Excalibur I bought years ago which I use but I'd not hesitate in a second to use a "Lex Box". Everyone says the jerky tastes better from one; I'd like to try some. Maybe I'll make one up for my next batch for a taste comparison.

[KD]

I'm going to try out the box.

Do you season? are the salt and such necessary for longevity or is it just a taste thing?

[William]

I do not know what the loss is but there definitely seems to be some denaturing going on. I can eat about 1/3 of a beef heart raw before I get a very clear and unpleasant "stop". I can dry a whole heart though and eat it without any of that same stop. I can see two possible reasons for this reaction. Either the dehydrating nature of the jerky overrides a stop (you keep eating because you're "hungry" for water but can't equate this) or the nutrition has been damaged some so you body can't get plenty of the organ before it's had too much of the micro-nutrients.

Drying (and cooking) denatures an allergen that Dr. Harris of PaNu found in beef blood. This might be the reason for the stop in fresh heart

[djr_81]

Do you season? are the salt and such necessary for longevity or is it just a taste thing?

No seasoning. Quality jerky has a great flavor on it's own so there's no need. Commercial jerky has additives, like salt and sugar, purely for taste.

Drying (and cooking) denatures an allergen that Dr. Harris of PaNu found in beef blood. This might be the reason for the stop in fresh heart

I doubt this is it William. I have no issues with muscle meats in any quantities, whether heavily drained of blood or not, so have my doubts that these potential allergens in beef blood effect me in any way. I strongly believe it's one of the two theories I proffered.

[KD]

oh, I was just going by the lex box instructions which has lots of salt and seasonings in the steps.

[djr_81]

oh, I was just going by the lex box instructions which has lots of salt and seasonings in the steps.

I believe Lex mentioned in the past that he added that in to make it more palatable for people. AFAIK Lex doesn't season his own much if at all either.