Poler Bear liver, any other dangerous raw animal foods? Lets make a list!

[intouchwithinstinct]

OK so I know its rare for animal foods, but I want to know if we can make a list of any dangerous animals or animals with dangerous parts we can not eat.

Polar bear liver I know is one rare food that has a dangerously high level of Vitamin A.

seal, walrus, and husky are a few others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A

I suppose there are some sea animals that contain poison, and some snakes and bugs as well.

Don't get me wrong I think there is allot less dangerous raw animal foods then people think, but we should have a standard precautionary list of foods to keep away from.

I think if you grew up in a tribe this would be pretty standard knowledge, your elders would warn you what plants and animals to stay away from, when you eat this make sure to cut this part off etc.  So it only seems right it should be standard knowledge among us.

[goodsamaritan]

The Japanese eat Fugu fish, funny feature in the Simpsons TV show.

[TylerDurden]

This is a silly list as no RPDer is going to be in a position to eat raw rattlesnake or cane toads or whatever. What we all eat is perfectly healthy.

As for the claims re polar bear liver, according to Stefansson, they seem to be vastly overblown:- I seem to recall that he mentioned people(ie Eskimoes) just feeling ill/queasy after 5 or 6 polar bear livers and vomiting the stuff out. Nothing terribly toxic.  It's the same when  I'm forced to eat cooked junk foods; if I make the mistake of overeating them, I just vomit the stuff out. I suppose if I ate raw sea snake I would die pretty damn quick but my diet isn't that varied!

[intouchwithinstinct]

This is a silly list as no RPDer is going to be in a position to eat raw rattlesnake or cane toads or whatever. What we all eat is perfectly healthy."

Yes I completely agree what we eat is perfectly healthy but I disagree that no one is in the position to eat raw rattlesnake or any of those foods.  "No one" is a pretty big extreme, I'm sure there is people in the world who live around animal foods that could pose a danger if they chose to go on this diet and thought about eating them. Most people may not have access to these rare animal foods but some may, and others who are big into traveling like myself may be curious as well.  For example  I don't know if I went into the amazon right now what animal foods not to eat although I'm sure most are fine.  But someone from south America on this forum may provide the answer before I decide to travel there.  They may also tell me that in south America I theres only 1 animal food or non that is dangerous, either way I learned something relevant

As for the claims re polar bear liver, according to Stefansson, they seem to be vastly overblown:- I seem to recall that he mentioned people(ie Eskimoes) just feeling ill/queasy after 5 or 6 polar bear livers and vomiting the stuff out. Nothing terribly toxic.  It's the same when  I'm forced to eat cooked junk foods; if I make the mistake of overeating them, I just vomit the stuff out. I suppose if I ate raw sea snake I would die pretty damn quick but my diet isn't that varied!

Fair enough on the Polar bear liver thing, I'm learning something new from this topic already.  I do think its very relevant to have the same knowledge of whats dangerous to eat and whats not that many of are ancestors probably had.  I know close friends back in Canada(my homeland) who are interested in going raw paleo after I told them about this diet that live in rattlesnake areas by the way, so I think that example just makes it more of a relevant topic to me.  Anyways a topic doesn't have to effect someone personally for them to be curious about it, we are trying to increase are knowledge and answer questions here right?  It would also be relevant for erasing any misconceptions about things that many people say you cant eat.  I know when I said Eskimos eat salmon eyes I've met more then one person who said they thought eyes of any animal where poisonous.

[intouchwithinstinct]

goodsamaritan, Haha yea I saw that episode when I was a kid.  I completely forgot about that.  Wow brings back some memory's all be looking up that fish now.

[William]

Fugu.

[RawZi]

    The gall bladder and liver of a mongoose:

Zephyr, who more recently has called himself Ano.

2) Blood tests done after the whole nasty episode confirmed unequivocally that the agent was trichinosis and the experts involved concluded that the likely source was the mongoose liver.  The lobster was given an apparent clean bill of health.  While it is quite widely agreed among many folks and observers that the source of the trichinosis must have been the mongoose, the source was not confirmed by any blood tests nor by any other laboratory tests.  However, since lobster is not known to carry trichina, nor pond water (at least according to the literature), it is extremely likely that the mongoose caused the trichinosis.  So, no doctor ever said definitively that the mongoose must have been the source.  However, Dr. Michael Klaper, the parasite specialist involved, did say at the time that it was very dangerous to eat wild carnivores, and especially the detoxifying organs (liver!) of such animals.

3)  Ano is alive and well and very healthy today and living in Hawaii and his body has fully rebuilt and repaired, and he bears no remnants or damage from the incident, as best anyone can tell.  It seems he is still eating a raw diet. He has since done other rather wild dietary experiments, but all much tamer than the disastrous event of eating the mongoose!  I have recently received confirmation that Ano is definitely still eating a raw diet, one he would call "instinctively raw".  Again, he is now in excellent health.

Parasites, in Closing -- My Views
My own feeling is that while many so-called parasites are really helpful or at least harmless, there are probably indeed a few parasites (trichinosis, etc.) which are not helpful, but rather, in large quantities, can be very harmful to the body. Personally, I would never eat meat from a mammalian predator, due to this risk.

Incidentally, many of us have eaten the raw meat and livers of wild deer with no ill effect, so the issue is not about eating wild (herbivorous) game raw, but rather wild carnivores (or perhaps even omnivores) raw. Actually, perhaps the only effect that we may get from ingesting wild deer raw is perhaps a quicker immunity to (or peaceful coexistence with) organisms such as the Lyme spirochete and the rickettsial organisms such as Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, both of which, I seem to remember, find a population reservoir in deer.  And, of course, we also get to become friendly more quickly with any endogenous viruses living in such wild animals.


What Does Aajonus Vonderplanitz Have to say About This Incident?

I had shared my initial post (to the Live-food e-mail list) on the parasite story above with Aajonus Vonderplanitz, the founder of the Primal Diet system, who is also a consultant on RVAF diets.  Aajonus replied to my e-mail in short order, offering his own thoughts and giving me permission to post his reply to the Live-food list.

His reply is interesting, as I have usually held the reservation that there may be a few parasites, such as trich, which may be harmful at times.  Aajonus goes somewhat further, and seems to feel that even trich in large quantities is basically not harmful, but helpful (whereas conventional parasitologists and epidemiologists would say that perhaps 50 to 100 trich larvae or fewer at one time might be relatively harmless, and that more could be dangerous).  I must muse on this one for a while -- I can offer no final answer.  I feel we do not have enough evidence yet for a totally sure answer!  Incidentally, I do agree with Aajonus that it appears now that Ano must have eaten the gallbladder as well, from what he described to Aajonus (below).

I would like to share Aajonus' excellent letter, posting it as his reply to my story above, since I feel folks deserve to hear a viewpoint that is even wider than mine.  So, since I have his permission to forward his letter, here it is (below)!

Incidentally, I agree that my final phrasing might incite a bit of hysteria among the paranoid regarding consuming the (raw) flesh of carnivores, and especially the consumption of their organs of detoxification, and yet, I think one might agree that such a precaution is perhaps wisest unless one knows what the carnivore has been eating, especially since we do have rather unlimited access to animal products from animals other than carnivores!

Incidentally, as noted above, many of us have eaten the raw meat and livers of wild deer with no ill effect, so the issue is not about eating wild (herbivorous) game raw, but rather wild carnivores (or perhaps even omnivores) raw.

I want to thank Aajonus for his careful and thoughtful reply!  Here it is!

(Please note that he has included snips of my original posts in his reply, as well)

At 10:07 AM 12/28/00 -0800, Aajonus wrote:
Hi, Vinny,

Vinny had written:
It turns out that I did not take good notes from my sources.  He apparently ate primarily the liver, and some meat from other parts of the mongoose as well.

Aajonus replies:
I communicated with Ano. He wrote that he ate something small that was terribly bitter. The gallbladder is the only gland that fits that description.

Vinny had written:
since lobster is not known to carry trichina, nor pond water (at least according to the literature), it is
extremely likely that the mongoose caused the trichinosis.

Aajonus replies:
Trichinosis can occur in any animal that has eaten animals in which Trichinella is indigenous, such as, pork, bears and some marine animals.  I have not found any source that said mongoose have been found or even known to develop trichinosis. Trichinosis should not be feared. It is the fastest final-phase detoxification in degenerative tissue where cells were made from animal that naturally contain latent Trichinella larvae; one of natures recycling organisms. Ano had eaten some of these creatures in his life.  Ano did not consume plenty of eggs and meat during his trichinosis detoxification and therefore did not recover.  Consequently, he consumed medication that destroyed the Trichinella.

Vinny had written:
However, Michael Klaper did say at the time that it was very dangerous to eat wild carnivores, and especially the detoxifying organs (liver!) of such animals.

Aajonus replies:
This is a supposition with which I do not agree. I have known people who have eaten plenty of wild carnivores, including liver, and did not get sick.

Vinny had written:
He has since done other rather wild experiments, but all much tamer than the disastrous event of eating the mongoose!

Aajonus replies:
The phrase "disastrous event of eating the mongoose" incites hysteria. The fact that Ano ate the gallbladder, full of bile, probably caused his intense diarrhea and cramping. Bile is a very acrid substance that causes severe irritation to tissue which is not well-protected with stable raw fats.  Ano consumed very little fat for someone who lived primitively.  Ano may have been harboring active Trichinella for some time prior to this incident.  The caustic bile may have caused enough damage to warrant Trichinella to have a huge feast of degenerative tissue within Ano's body.

[chucky]

What happens when you consume too much vitamin A on regular basis ? What happens with the liver and could it get damaged ? I was taking Roaccutane for about 4 months. It's aa acne medicine but is very high in Vitamin A. Anyone else taken Roaccutane here ?

[Hans89]

If I'm not mistaken, AV writes in his book that he caught and ate rattlesnakes. I wonder how you catch rattlesnakes..

[djr_81]

If I'm not mistaken, AV writes in his book that he caught and ate rattlesnakes. I wonder how you catch rattlesnakes..

You trap it's body just behind the bead with a stick, forked is best, and crush the head or cut it off.
Be careful though because the head will still bite long after "death". I'm not sure what the timespan is on danger but snapping turtles can bite for a full day after beheading so I imagine another reptile is similar.

[RawZi]

You trap it's body just behind the bead with a stick, forked is best, and crush the head or cut it off.
Be careful though because the head will still bite long after "death".

    http://www.xrecipes.com/diet.htm

    This lady has a recipe on her pharonese diet site above for rattlesnake.  I know other people who eat rattlesnake, and survived no problem far as I can see.  I don't think it's poisonous to eat, maybe no more poisonous than the Japanese fugu fish.  I think fugu's supposed to be stronger, but I just mean you probably have to follow procedure, and everything will  be fine.

[Hans89]

You trap it's body just behind the bead with a stick, forked is best, and crush the head or cut it off.
Be careful though because the head will still bite long after "death". I'm not sure what the timespan is on danger but snapping turtles can bite for a full day after beheading so I imagine another reptile is similar.

Isn't it really dangerous though? I'd think that snake might jump at me any moment. Since I'm from Germany, I don't have any first-hand experience with them, so excuse my ignorance and curiosity.

[djr_81]

Isn't it really dangerous though? I'd think that snake might jump at me any moment. Since I'm from Germany, I don't have any first-hand experience with them, so excuse my ignorance and curiosity.

I'm sure it is. I'm not nuts enough to try it myself so I can't say how dangerous.
I'm only commenting from what I've seen on TV.