Harvard study: plant fats replacing animal fats linked to lowering heart disease

[Raw Kyle]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/183129.php

[kurite]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/183129.php

This article doesn't relate to raw paleos, we eat raw saturated fat and its grass fed.

[ys]

ha, this is bogus, they did not do any studies, all they did is collect info from other studies and published articles which are very questionable to begin with.

ignore this "study" and others like it.

[TylerDurden]

ha, this is bogus, they did not do any studies, all they did is collect info from other studies and published articles which are very questionable to begin with.

ignore this "study" and others like it.

 There's too much scientific data out there now re the harm done by cooked saturated fats for the above to be convincingly debunked.Now, I will accept that the many studies' conclusions are wrongly focused on cooked saturated fats whereas it seems that it's the heat-created glycotoxins  etc. in the foods high in cooked saturated fats , which are really to blame instead, but that's all.

[Raw Kyle]

This article doesn't relate to raw paleos, we eat raw saturated fat and its grass fed.

Hence it being posted in "Hot Topics" rather than "General Discussion."

[William]

  Now, I will accept that the many studies' conclusions are wrongly focused on cooked staurated fats whereas it seems that it's the heat-created glycotoxins  etc. in the foods high in cooked saturated fats , which are really to blame instead, but that's all.

You finally see the light! Congratulations.

[TylerDurden]

You finally see the light! Congratulations.

  Err, I've actually said this multiple times before, even many years ago. More to the point, my above comment is not remotely an endorsement of foods high in cooked saturated fats, I'm merely stating, instead, that it's the negative effect of cooking on those foods that is the real problem. In other words tallow  etc. is still very unhealthy just for different reasons than cited in some studies.

[William]

   tallow  etc. is still very unhealthy just for different reasons than cited in some studies.

How do you explain the millions who eat tallow and ghee daily with no apparent ill effects?
Note that ghee is considered medicinal in India.

[Hannibal]

How do you explain the millions who eat tallow and ghee daily with no apparent ill effects? Note that ghee is considered medicinal in India.

They are relatively healthy, esp. in comparison with Western people who eat junk food.
But they would be far more healthy and live much longer when they ate raw foods.

[TylerDurden]

How do you explain the millions who eat tallow and ghee daily with no apparent ill effects?
Note that ghee is considered medicinal in India.

  I've heard so many reports from people who've actually been to India, and mentioned how very  unhealthy the people are over there due to very nutrient-poor vegetarian-leaning diets, so I'm not surprised that they also eat an unhealthy food like ghee.

And millions do NOT eat tallow any more. It's now very rarely eaten as a food, let alone used for cooking any more, which is most fortunate, healthwise.

[Raw Kyle]

I think I might be able to make a thread titled "puppies" and end up with the same argument about heated animal fats in it.

[William]

I think I might be able to make a thread titled "puppies" and end up with the same argument about heated animal fats in it.

It's what happens when someone denies the difference between perishable fat and stable fatty acids.

[Hans89]

It may be just me, but when I changed from using vegetable oils to saturated fats like coconut oil and lard or tallow and from vegan to eating cooked meat after reading Nourishing Traditions, that was a little health revolution for me. So I don't think the problems with heated animal fats apply to everyone.

[Raw Kyle]

It's what happens when someone denies the difference between perishable fat and stable fatty acids.

I think it's what happens when one or more members decide it's more important to stubbornly continue to argue a small point, putting their personal satisfaction of "proving someone wrong" online before the good of everyone and the forward movement of the forum.

[TylerDurden]

I think it's what happens when one or more members decide it's more important to stubbornly continue to argue a small point, putting their personal satisfaction of "proving someone wrong" online before the good of everyone and the forward movement of the forum.

Exactly, william likes to continually promote pemmican despite most other RVAFers, like Ioanna etc. etc.,  finding it seriously problematic re health.

[William]

I think it's what happens when one or more members decide it's more important to stubbornly continue to argue a small point, putting their personal satisfaction of "proving someone wrong" online before the good of everyone and the forward movement of the forum.

Right.
Research and development of pemmican as a cure has been stifled here. Too bad for those who need it.

[Raw Kyle]

It takes two to tango gentleman, no matter how you spin it.

I don't want to become part of the argument, but I will say what I think is wrong with these posts once. They all appear intentionally provocative, William with the dogged pursuit of pemmican advertisement to the point of claiming a food boiled is not cooked, Tyler for going around any thread he can posting over and over that heated fat is junk, ghastly, toxic, unhealthy etc. It's not just the core content, but the way the posts seem to attack other people on the forum, coming pretty close to simple name calling.

[William]

It takes two to tango gentleman, no matter how you spin it.

I don't want to become part of the argument, but I will say what I think is wrong with these posts once. They all appear intentionally provocative, William with the dogged pursuit of pemmican advertisement to the point of claiming a food boiled is not cooked, Tyler for going around any thread he can posting over and over that heated fat is junk, ghastly, toxic, unhealthy etc. It's not just the core content, but the way the posts seem to attack other people on the forum, coming pretty close to simple name calling.

I agree with the sense of this post, the detail is something else...
I've never tried boiled fat.
IMO Tyler is correct in writing that fat heated >150F is poisonous; that has been my experience as well as Tyler's and PaleoPhil.
Tyler's conclusion from that experience              [comment deleted - figure it out for yourself}

[JazzIsGood]

Even though Geoff speculates that cooked animal fats are the reason for them being linked to disease, you must consider that these studies don't even try to take into account exposure to chemicals and other truly disease-causing/perpetuating things. 100% of those eating SAD diets that include cooked meat, fat, and animal products are exposed daily to other toxic substances in their food and environemnt along side the animal foods being blamed.

There's mercury in more than half of corn syrups. There fillings in most people's mouths. Most people have been vaccinated with cocktails containing MSG, aluminum, and other crap. Alot of these people eat bread conditioned with bromate. Alot of them consume commercial orange juice which contains pesticides including organophosphates within the juice itself (unlike fresh squeezed juices in which the peel itself isn't part of the juicing process). And the list goes on forever. It's not the animal foods at fault, it's that the studies don't bother looking at how much of the other things people are exposed to. Not to mention the amount of sleep/rest these people get. Whether they take drugs for their headaches. Which flame retardent is on their bed. What form of water do they drink. Where do they live (ex. LA, California is a horrible place for your health). And much much more.

All those studies are belugga whales. If they die on your shore, and you eat them, you'll get botulism, dufas! < Go ahead and quote that.

[TylerDurden]

The trouble is that those chemicals/vaccines you mention are a very minor issue by comparison to heat-created toxins found in cooked foods. Besides, studies have routinely isolated those heat-created toxins and still found them to be highly damaging in and of themselves.

[Raw Kyle]

Who exactly on earth, let alone anyone on this forum, is in the position to unequivocally say that this or that toxin is of small importance vs. another?

[TylerDurden]

Who exactly on earth, let alone anyone on this forum, is in the position to unequivocally say that this or that toxin is of small importance vs. another?

  Simple, really. There are now 1,000s of studies done on the negative effects of heat-created toxins in cooked foods. Studies done on the negative effects of air-pollution and the like are, correspondingly, last I checked, in a minority by comparison, and therefore imply that air-pollution is a lesser evil. Besides, another point is that while some have the ability to get rid of some toxins(eg:- via changing their diet), many others don't have the possibility of avoiding other kinds of toxins(for example, to avoid air-pollution completely, one would have to go to some desolate rural area, one in which jobs were rather unlikely, so it would be much more difficult to avoid). Lastly, worrying about absolutely all kinds of toxins, no matter how low the dose, leads to unnecessary obsessiveness. I mean, wild animals routinely encounter minor levels of toxins(eg:- via poisonous plants or animals) and they only need to worry about the bigger doses(such as from king cobras/sea-snakes/amanita phalloides  et al).

[KD]

The trouble is that those chemicals/vaccines you mention are a very minor issue by comparison to heat-created toxins found in cooked foods. Besides, studies have routinely isolated those heat-created toxins and still found them to be highly damaging in and of themselves.

I don't think you can reduce chemicals to just smog, but those that go into the water, soil, that are in homes, and even in the EMF and electrical current etc..that ends up being ingested or absorbed or affecting out bodies in other ways no matter how much care goes into organic and raw practices. Even restricting to the most wild of game and plant foods, one would have a greater deal of chemicals to worry about than our ancestors, and already have weakened systems due to raised on forumla and/or other chemicals. Also people ingest alot of chemicals (semi-voluntarily) within the modern versions of the cooked foods that they eat which are known to cause diseases that traditional diets do not. I'm skeptical of the typical extreme hyperbolic and hopeless sounding claims regarding vaccines, but can't accept that the cooking of simple meats and/or starches in a pristine individual would results in the development of modern diseases, often linked to chemicals and other treatments and environmental factors.

[Raw Kyle]

That's absurd. Just because the scientific community chooses to do more studies or less studies on a particular subject doesn't inform at all about importance, or in the level of toxins toxicity.

[TylerDurden]

Well, that's your choice. IMO, though, logically, some toxins must be far less harmless than others, and the ones we can  actually do something about are such as those toxins found in cooked foods. Air-pollution is more difficult to get rid of on a personal basis, and there's far less scientific data supporting its harm by comparison to cooked foods.  Simply put, we have all sorts of toxins affecting us:- some affect most individuals in a harmless way(eg:- most are definitely not affected by electromagnetic sensitivity), and we should concentrate on those toxins that affect us on an immediate basis.  Granted, if one is living next to some over-polluted swamp etc., one has something to worry about, but for the vast majority,  it's otherwise best to just reduce the basic, most common negative effects on health such as reducing  smoking, cooking foods etc.