Raw butter is the only dairy allowed ? It has no lactose

[fuggles]

i read you should avoid dairy because of the lactose, except butter

So the rule is, avoid all dairy EXCEPT grass fed butter ? which doesnt produce the mucous etc ?

[KD]

I think officially this is incorrect, the raw butter does still has at least trace amounts of lactose, but that there is a dispute over whether it should work for both lactose intolerant folks, and people in general who claim adverse issues with dairy. I think there are some people clarifying their butter into ghee (or just buying regular store bought ghee?) for this reason, which I'm not an expert on but it seems to require high temps over 90-120c (perhaps there are other methods?) to accomplish this. But I think overall, the only rule is that dairy isn't considered to be a paleolithic food, but some folks here arn't following these 'guidelines' 100%, either because they can't get other animal fats, or find benefits (digestibility, vitamins) in these foods regardless of them not being our 100% natural food.

heres an old thread, that should answer other questions.

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/hot-topics/butter-attack/?wap2

[TylerDurden]

Avoid ALL dairy as even raw grassfed butter is harmful in various ways, not just as regards lactose-/casein-intolerance.

[kurite]

I agree with TD but if your going to eat butter because it contains little lactose than you can also make kefir.

[RawZi]

    For less than a year I was doing ghee.  I made it all myself.  I didn't use a thermometer for the ghee, but I only warmed it enough to be liquid, but not hot.  I must have kept it on the flame about five hours before all the protein solids came out.  You can't use too much heat, or the golden color goes and it turns brown and the flavor gets off.  I was vegetarian at the time, lacto, no honey, egg, fish or fowl.

    I don't think butter can be paleo.

    My son was allergic to milk protein (not lactose).  Sweet butter was the only pasteurized dairy product his stomach could tolerate.  Plain yogurt (real plain no fillers), cheese, LactaidTM brand lactose reduced milk etc etc etc all made him violently ill, as did the tiniest hint of egg or meat (cooked organic).  He doesn't tolerate slightly warmed grass grazed (raw sweet) butter now at all.

    My circulatory system never tolerated vegetable oils.  It used to tolerate (pasterized sweet) butter though.  I'm not sure whether it would tolerate ghee now, I haven't tried any in a long time.  It does not tolerate pasteurized (grassfed sweet) butter, no way will I ever try that again.    

[William]

   For less than a year I was doing ghee.  I made it all myself.  I didn't use a thermometer for the ghee, but I only warmed it enough to be liquid, but not hot.  I must have kept it on the flame about five hours before all the protein solids came out.  You can't use too much heat, or the golden color goes and it turns brown and the flavor gets off.

The instructions I found said cook it on medium until the bottom muck turns beige, and I ruined/scorched every second one until I learned that I must hover. Takes about 1/2 hour at medium low.

[raw]

i always give my toddler raw butter and raw meat. he does very well with this. i also have high quality grass fed yellow fat and my toddler gets problem with that and so do i. 

[Roselene]

... i also have high quality grass fed yellow fat and my toddler gets problem with that and so do i.  

I heard the fat is yellow because the milking cow it comes from has birthed many calves and her liver can't process vitamin A anymore.  Does anyone know if there is truth to this?

[TylerDurden]

It should be noted that ghee and even raw grassfed butter still contain traces of lactose in them, so the claims by a few that they don't contain lactose are false. A number of RVAFers have found this out to their cost.

[cliff]

I heard the fat is yellow because the milking cow it comes from has birthed many calves and her liver can't process vitamin A anymore.  Does anyone know if there is truth to this?

The butter is yellow because cows can't process all the carotene's(much like humans) in the diet, it has nothing to do with losing function of liver.

Cultured butter won't have lactose if your worried.  I find i do wonderfully using raw butter as my main fat.

Tyler- Whats gives you the impression Ghee contains lactose?  Normal grass fed butter definitely contains trace amounts

[fuggles]

sheep and goat butter/ cheeses okay ?

And if not cheese, the butter ? the butter is the good stuff I heard that really gives your body the nutrition

[TylerDurden]

Tyler- Whats gives you the impression Ghee contains lactose?  Normal grass fed butter definitely contains trace amounts

Ghee contains minimal levels of lactose as well as casein. Indeed, those who are highly allergic to dairy, whether lactose- or casein- or otherwise related, have noticed a definite nasty reaction when eating ghee. Apparently, it is impossible to get rid of absolutely all the proteins when making ghee and those really allergic to such proteins get a reaction to  them with ease - anyway, while ghee might not cause an immediate observable reaction to those only mildly allergic to dairy in the short-term, it's still a dangerous food anyway due to heat-created toxins etc.

[TylerDurden]

sheep and goat butter/ cheeses okay ?

And if not cheese, the butter ? the butter is the good stuff I heard that really gives your body the nutrition

  As pointed out previously, raw dairy should be avoided by the majority of people in all its forms, cheese, butter or otherwise. The minority who do fine on raw dairy should still limit its intake to only minimal levels as there are many people without dairy allergies who consumed a lot of raw dairy and then  have subsequently developed magnesium-deficiency due to the excessive contrasting levels of calcium in dairy.

[RawZi]

sheep and goat butter/ cheeses okay ?

And if not cheese, the butter ? the butter is the good stuff I heard that really gives your body the nutrition

    I want to be where you are.  Goat butter is hard to make.  You get sheep butter often?  How about camel or horse butter?  Are you asking us real questions?  What do you eat?  What kind of places do you do your shopping or get your food?

[KD]

 As pointed out previously, raw dairy should be avoided by the majority of people in all its forms, cheese, butter or otherwise. The minority who do fine on raw dairy should still limit its intake to only minimal levels as there are many people without dairy allergies who consumed a lot of raw dairy and then  have subsequently developed magnesium-deficiency due to the excessive contrasting levels of calcium in dairy.

I don't have the personal experience or that of talking to others to argue this specific point, but on the days I've crunched my daily food, which might contain 1/3 to half a pound of butter my total RDA's for calcium are still low, and my magnesium is low, but not much lower. This is going on the salted butter of the database and raw-grassfed probably has much higher minerals, but at least in the software I'm using, this amount of butter has half the calcium of the 4 or so eggs I might eat a day. I understand the ratio is more extreme in the butter than the eggs, but overall it doesn't seem to be contributing to excess calcium. Although I understand there are other reported reasons for avoiding dairy, this one so far doesn't add up for me.

[TylerDurden]

The CA:Mg ratio issue has already affected a number of rawists. Indeed, some long-term primal dieters have admitted to eating raw pumpkin seeds in order to balance out the calcium:magnesium ratio given their massive consumption of raw dairy.

The calcium:magnesium  ratio should ideally be 1:1 or 2:1, at most. Raw eggs are at 3:1 to 4:1 , last I checked. raw butter was 7:1, I think, with other types of raw dairy going as high as 12:1 by ratio.

I don't discount the possibility that a few people might not be affected by this ratio issue at all. After all, a minority might  be better  , on a biological level, re getting rid of excess calcium from their bodies, or whatever.

My main point, though, is this:- if you experience any difficulties with 1 type of raw dairy, then it is a sure sign that other types of raw dairy are also as bad, even if perhaps on a lesser level.

[cliff]

The calcium:magnesium  ratio should ideally be 1:1 or 2:1, at most. Raw eggs are at 3:1 to 4:1 , last I checked. raw butter was 7:1, I think, with other types of raw dairy going as high as 12:1 by ratio.

Whats makes you believe 1:1 is the best?  I tried to do some research on this but couldn't find why these specific numbers are the best,

Even in a healthy body, without any of the above ramifications, the effect of magnesium on calcium (and vice
versa) is not always easy to predict, since its ability to increase or lower calcium depends on many factors,
including the type used (citrate, gluconate, carbonate, etc), and their resulting effect on stomach acid levels.
If zinc is on the high side, and potassium is low, then taking extra magnesium will usually lower calcium,
because magnesium supports zinc, but lowers potassium.  On the other hand, if potassium is higher, and
zinc is on the low side, then taking magnesium will likely push calcium higher as well.  Vitamin D increases
calcium and magnesium, as well as phosphorus absorption.
http://www.acu-cell.com/mr.html

You do realize butter has about 7mg of calcium per 200 calorie serving? 

[TylerDurden]

1:1 is cited as best as it replicates the  the original palaeolithic diet, according to Cordain and others. Simply put, if one doesn't eat palaeo, then the various ratios progressively  get out of balance and then one is more likely to get nutritional deficiencies etc.

[Hannibal]

sheep and goat butter/ cheeses okay ?

Goat butter is white-coloured and it's easier to digest than cow butter.
People who find dairy hard to digest find the aged cheese easier to digest. Cheese that is over half a year old is quite easy to digest. Of course, the older the better.