wild game

[nicole]

How do you purchase your wild game? (In the U.S.) I have heard that it is illeagal to sell it for some reason. I want to get a reliable source before hunting season arrives. I am not interested in frozen. Unfortuneatly I do not know any regular hunters and I don't have the time right now to teach myself and go out on my own.

[RawZi]

... I want to get a reliable source before hunting season arrives. I am not interested in frozen. Unfortuneatly I do not know any regular hunters and I don't have the time right now to teach myself and go out on my own.

    Stop at farm stands.  Talk to the people who run them.  They may know hunters and know the places the hunters process the carcasses.  They might be able to get you some.

[alphagruis]

One point about wild game is that it is probably better to discard that part of the meat and fat that closely surrounds the bullet or projectiles used to kill the animal if they are still in its flesh. This is because ammunition contains usually lead in particular the lead shots used to hunt small game but even the bullets fired from rifles in big game hunting may contain lead. Lead poisoning is a serious often underestimated or overlooked threat. The danger is much greater if the meat is cooked with the projectiles in it, but even if eaten raw the heating of the projectile and surrounding flesh during its penetration may contaminate seriously the meat.
 
Lead free ammunition exists and is actually mandatory in some areas or waterfowl hunting. Ask the hunter what kind of projectiles he uses.      

[TylerDurden]

I get shotgun pellets in my raw wild hare carcasses but I generally  easily detect them when I put them in my mouth, and just spit them out.

As for raw wild game, farmers are one of the few with enough time and opportunity to go hunting regularly. So best to contact such farmers and see what sort of deal you can arrange. They might be able to throw in a small carcass for free if you buy a bulk-load of raw grassfed meat from them etc. Also, some hobbyist hunters have no particular interest in the carcass other than the head for a trophy, so you might be able to talk a hunter into occasionally giving you a whole deer carcass etc. 1 such carcass, if you have enough freezer space, could last you a long time.

[nicole]

Okay thank you. I just started purchasing my meat from a small store that does their own butchering and everything, so I think I may be able to find out from them the next chance I get.
This is some information that I got from an official:
"The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife understands the benefits and desire to consume wild game. However, there are specific laws that regulate the taking of that game and its dispersal. It is unlawful for successful recreational hunters to sell the edible portion of their harvest. Edible wildlife parts may be gifted, provided the meat is accompanied by a statement from the harvester that includes his/her name, address, license, permit or tag number; the number and kind of animal provided, the date killed, county and area it was taken in, and the hunter’s signature. If consuming wild game is something you wish to pursue, you may consider either taking up hunting for yourself, or purchasing farmed meat at butcher shops or game farms. The Internet can provide you with multiple resources to purchase wild game meat."

[RawZi]

    Thank you nicole, good to know that.  I haven't yet tried wild game.

    This gentleman: http://www.giveittomeraw.com/xn/detail/1407416:Photo:1117097?xg_source=activity I think he may sell raw grassfed meat on the internet and I heard somewhere that he hunts too, but with copper bullets or something, less toxic than whatever people normally use.  I don't know what part of the states you live in.  I heard about him on Patrick Timpone's radio station's broadcast.  He and farmer Amos Miller were interviewed there in place of and on behalf of Aajonus last July. 

[Sitting Coyote]

Hi Nicole.  Laws vary throughout the US as to whether hunters can sell there meat.  Here in Vermont, I believe, hunters are allowed to sell the meat from their takes for a period of something like 20 days after the season ends.  There are a lot of details that go along with this, but I wouldn't sell my take as I want to eat it so I haven't investigated it further.  I hunt deer primarily, but put in for a moose permit each year and hunt small game as opportunities permit.  I also hunt with wooden bow and arrow using steel broadheads, so I don't have to worry about lead issues.

You can often buy domesticated game animals from game ranches, like deer, elk, bison, and sometimes other things.  I don't know where you live, but I'd bet you have a game ranch within driving distance as they're almost everywhere these days.  "Game" meat has a much higher market value than cows, pigs, etc., and game animals require less upkeep, so the profit margins are much better.  Game animals don't take well to feedlot-style animal propagation, though, so pretty much need to be free-ranging.

[Paleo Donk]

I've got some questions about wild game vs domesticated.

Anyone want to take a stab at how much better wild game meat is than domesticated meat?

And which domesticated animal would be best to consume? Bison, lamb, beef?

Could a lifetime of eating a VLC diet with predominantly domesticated animals be worse than a  low-fat ornish-type diet?

[KD]

 I think someone said here once - and can be observed by most dietary approaches - is that the most advantage of this type of diet is staying away from problematic foods with the other part being the nutrients ( at least in comparison especially to what an average person would intake) are greatly increased. Wild foods have added nutritional advantages and probably less of whatever detriments are in even properly raised domesticated animals. I think Daniel Vitalis is really big on that issue for health.

I assume bison would be the best having the purest blood line. I'd then say goats->lamb->beef

actual game meats are not easy for me to obtain, but I eat wild fish and seafoods. I think many on traditional primal blueprint or paleo diet, even eating conventional toxic meats are claiming benefits over ornish and even raw grain-free low fat diets. Its hard to say conclusively because they each say can argue that the other produces certain disease or premature breakdown and they might both be right. Hopefully like with above our health is drastically improved just staying away from the toxic prep and grain-fed foods. So I'm sure getting the most you can in a diet would be good, but plenty of people do fine on grass-fed, I guess that gets old to me too after awhile.

I don't think its make or break, but yea probably superior in almost every way albeit some different an possibly beneficial profiles in grass-fed for variety, and maybe being much leaner. Are you considering hunting? I keep forgetting why it is you don't eat fish, other than your location now I guess.

[Paleo Donk]

I agree that wild game isn't make or break, especially for someone like me just getting into rpd. I see adding wild game as about the last major change to my diet.  I would like to gradually eat more and more of it as life goes on and perhaps eat nothing but wild game at some point in the future. Becoming a hunter seems to be the best bet to obtain fresh wild game, though I just looked and there are some wild game processing plants and ranches close enough to me that I could possibly be able to get some at least every so often. The thought of just experimenting with a completely different animal that I've never tasted is really appealing as well. Raw lamb tastes better to me than raw beef, so I'm wondering if Elk or antelope are going to taste even better.

You might be confusing me with someone else with the fish/seafood. I don't think there is seafood that I don't like (haven't tried a whole lot though). I especially like raw fatty farm-raised salmon (the bright pink variety....yuuuum). I haven't looked into getting wild ocean-fish or oysters and other mollusks - I don't see them as that big a deal, less than the issue of getting wild game. If I do obtain some good seafood it will be by random chance. I do plan on going fishing in the gulf this summer.

Here is the ranch I found - http://www.brokenarrowranch.com/

Totals almost 1 million acres. The animals are shot and processed in the field in their natural setting, not loaded up and taken to a processing plant, which they say reduces the amount of stress on the animal making for better meat. Though, wouldn't pretty much all the meat we ate be from animals that were extremely stressed..

[TylerDurden]

Well, grassfed meats can vary a great deal in quality - some animals are fed grass along with herbs and sdo really good while other so-called grassfed -meat farms quietly give some grains to their cattle in winter.

I personally have usually found raw grassfed meats to be rather bland in taste. What makes me enjoy the diet is the large intake of raw wild game such as raw wild hare carcasses, raw wildcaught oysters etc.

As regards species, obviously choose from animal-species that have only very recently been domesticated such as deer or bison. Most standard species such as cattle or pigs have become too inbred over the millenia, in which case it would be best to go for the rarer breeds among such species.

[KD]

You might be confusing me with someone else with the fish/seafood. I don't think there is seafood that I don't like (haven't tried a whole lot though). I especially like raw fatty farm-raised salmon (the bright pink variety....yuuuum). I haven't looked into getting wild ocean-fish or oysters and other mollusks - I don't see them as that big a deal, less than the issue of getting wild game. If I do obtain some good seafood it will be by random chance. I do plan on going fishing in the gulf this summer.

Yeah I meant on a regular basis as a food source on current diet, not never eaten ever  I think there are arguments for the prominence of red meats, especially in our wild setting, but I don't think this discounts the value of seafoods especially when looking at many near carnivorous or natural omni peoples. There might be clever arguments against it but its not to be short-changed so easily IMO. I can see current or long-term the desire for a steady stream of wild meats over acquiring seafood but its confusing that it seems to be an all or nothing type thing with seafoods not similarly improving an otherwise grass-fed red meat diet. These are foods -for those local and often other places with added expense - can acquire freshly caught and unfrozen unlike most specialty meats including GF. I probably will check out this service though, the cost is too much on just about all things but a few, but that might do alot better than grass-fed farms/animals which I also have some reservations about. I tend to eat alot of bison as I can actually get it unfrozen and cheaper than ordering frozen GF chuck steaks.

As per stress, I think alot of it is diminished by quality of living conditions, but the short answer would probably be yes, although if they are actually rounding up the animals for slaughter without first killing them (which I have never heard of) that seems to be similarly stressful to a life of comfortable pasture/slaughter.

[King Salmon]

wow...farmed salmon? I thought I read somewhere on this forum that "farmed" salmon was unhealthy.As a matter of fact,there's a "health food" store here called Choice's Market that has a strict policy NOT to sell farmed salmon because of health reasons.They strictly only sell "wild caught" salmon.....hmmm interesting....I guess it depends on the "farm" or it's "methods"?

[KD]

I think he was being somewhat facetious

generally people do think farmed fish is healthy to eat. but sometimes we eat things that are not 100% ideal. or I guess pay no mind.

according to most 'guidelines' there really arn't any current healthy farming methods or much differences between them other than 'organic' feeds.

[Paleo Donk]

King Salmon, how appropriate that we discuss salmon. I was merely talking about the taste of the farm raised salmon which with a little lemon and salt is amazing. I realize its not nutritionally equivalent to the ocean caught variety. I can't even remember having ocean caught salmon - perhaps it tastes better? Grass-fed meats do taste much better raw than grain-fed.

As for the addition of seafood to the diet - I've read some papers (maybe it was just one) where stable isotope analysis of paleo bones show that the percentage of seafood in the diet varied by how close the tribe was to water. Some bones showed a very high percentage of seafood while others showed almost nothing. I'm not sure whether a diet of say 90% land animals and 10% seafood would be any better than a diet of 100% land animals. In fact, it could easily be worse as we could be more adapted to land animals. This is not to rule out seafoods - they can supply much needed nutrition that is not easily found in the animals we eat today. Fatty acids DHA and AA as well as zinc are found in much greater quantities in seafood.

I'd actually lean towards saying that a proper land-based diet is likely to be superior than a proper land and sea diet. Proper being defined as getting fresh wild game, and eating the entire animal. But since I have not seen one person here achieve this proper diet, seafood can be a nice addition to our diets.

[KD]

I think its precisely that we arn't getting certain nutrients from whole wild animals in addition to the fact that in our origins it had value.

For that and previously listed reasons seafoods have more value today then ever. While many folks opt for 100% land meats or even cow, I think this decision is largely fabricated and doesn't take into account really subtle nutrient profiles that might come into play long-term. I'm not an expert in many of these things, but just things like DHA - while present in egg yolks- like any nutrient varies in the source. Thats why it makes sense (for me) to increase seafoods prior to consuming whole animals blood brains etc...and still probably wouldn't hurt afterwards.

just my take as obviously much of this is out of my experience.

[King Salmon]

Interesting observations.However,I'm always reminded that Japan has the longest lived people in the "civilized" world per capita(correct me if I'm wrong,but they're doing pretty good either way and Hunza is a small group to compare I believe).So,I figure it has something to do with minerals derived from seafood of all types including whale & seaweed.

It's difficult for the Japanese to eat land animals on an on-going basis.They don't have the land and resources for it,so they import a lot of stuff and it is very expensive.Beef is outrageaously expensive,not to mention Kobe beef which is in a class by itself.

Botomline: Depends where you live and what's available. I my case,I have awesome wild salmon, scallops,and tuna in nearby waters! Plus,I let the fish eat whatever they naturally eat.I don't have to worry about grass-fed,grain-fed ....etc.So,this is why I don't settle for only beef or other land animals.

[Hannibal]

I personally have usually found raw grassfed meats to be rather bland in taste.

Even horse meat or goat meat? In my opinion their taste is very distinct.

[Hannibal]

I'm not sure whether a diet of say 90% land animals and 10% seafood would be any better than a diet of 100% land animals. In fact, it could easily be worse as we could be more adapted to land animals. This is not to rule out seafoods - they can supply much needed nutrition that is not easily found in the animals we eat today. Fatty acids DHA and AA as well as zinc are found in much greater quantities in seafood.

I feel better when I eat 100% land animals. I tried seafood (wild-caught) and it turned out after some time that it's not a good option for me.
It's not true that you cannot find DHA, AA or zinc in land animals. Brain has got very high content of DHA and AA. Organ-meats (esp. testicles and liver) are high in zinc.

[Hannibal]

Interesting observations.However,I'm always reminded that Japan has the longest lived people in the "civilized" world per capita(correct me if I'm wrong,but they're doing pretty good either way and Hunza is a small group to compare I believe).

Okinawians have got the highest life expectancy and they eat lots of pork.

[TylerDurden]

Okinawians have got the highest life expectancy and they eat lots of pork.

They also eat a lot of raw fish and plant foods.

[TylerDurden]

Even horse meat or goat meat? In my opinion their taste is very distinct.

Goatmeat is admittedly very pungent(if from male goats). Horsemeat is relatively bland by comparison to wild game. But raw wild game has that something extra, re more nutritious blood etc. etc. that makes it far superior.