Yuri recovery

[William]

IF shouldn't be starvation, definitely, but body may perceive it as such...

This is still a conundrum for me why some people greatly benefit eating one meal daily and others do struggle severely. I've heard that some have so strong adrenals that it is simply impossible for them to get adrenal exhaustion.

Body must perceive IF as starvation if you ignore hunger, but then it's not IF.

I could never live on one meal daily until I started high fat (pemmican).
I had adrenal exhaustion years ago, while still eating veggies.

[rawlion]

I had adrenal exhaustion years ago, while still eating veggies.

Vegan/vegetarian diet has definitely weakened my adrenals. But I wouldn't say it was the exhaustion. More like mild fatigue. I recovered from it pretty fast on Primal Diet. However, true exhaustion or burnout is rather severe condition. In such state, a person is rarely able to work. Full rehabilitation, if possible, might take years.

[invisible]

IF and calorie restriction are catabolic diets so it makes sense that catabolic hormones such as cortisol would rise while anabolic hormones such as insulin fall. Over the long term once weight stabilizes it would make sense if cortisol would then fall below baseline though.

[rawlion]

The first major issue resulting from my intermittent fasting failure was poor digestion. For the first time in my life I was facing such problem. I'm yet to find out how to deal with it.

Here is the abstract from the Article indicating connection between adrenals and stomach acid production:

TUERKISHER and Wertheimer (1945) found that the secretion of free and total acid by the stomachs of adrenalectomized, anesthetized and laparotomized rats was lower than that in control rats. Acid secretion in their preparations was not increased by administration of sodium chloride or desoxycorticosterone acetate, but it was increased by injections of a whole extract of the adrenal cortex. They concluded that the presence of hormones of the adrenal cortex is essential for the secretion of acid by the stomach.

Many of the numerous physiological changes which occur in animals as the result of adrenalectomy are known to affect the ability of the stomach to secrete acid. Among these changes are a fall in blood pressure and cardiac output, a decrease in blood glucose concentration, a distortion of the plasma electrolyte pattern and the occurrence of acidosis.

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/47/3/193

More information about the role of HCL:

Stomach acid or hydrochloric acid (HCl), is a very powerful digestive agent, and much more important than you realize.

HCl's important functions include:

    * Breaking down proteins into the essential amino acids and nutrients your body needs in order to stay healthy.
    * Stimulating your pancreas and small intestines to produce the digestive enzymes and bile necessary to further breakdown the carbohydrates, proteins and fats you eat.
    * Preventing disease by killing pathogenic bacteria and yeast normally present in food.

Low Stomach Acid: A Vicious Cycle

There are two main consequences of low stomach acid:

   1. You become protein malnourished. When your stomach acid is low, you are not able to digest protein.
          * Improper digestion of protein creates toxins in your intestines that can set the stage for illness and disease.
          * Improper digestion of protein also creates acidic blood, since protein is by nature acidic.
   2. You become mineral deficient. As your blood becomes more acidic, it will look for minerals from anywhere in your body, in order to get your blood to its more ideal alkaline state. Acidic blood robs your body of minerals, even taking minerals from your bones (which is important to know if you want to prevent osteoporosis).

Low stomach acid eventually creates a vicious cycle: low stomach acid = low minerals = acidic blood. This cycle continues because acidic blood further creates low minerals and low stomach acid.

Once this vicious cycle has started, there is a cascade of consequences:

    * You could eat plenty of protein and still be protein malnourished. This raises cortisol levels (stress or death hormone), thereby raising your blood glucose (blood sugar levels). Elevated cortisol adversely affects your behavior and temperment.
    * Eventually, your adrenals become depleted (adrenal fatigue) and DHEA, the youth hormone, is suppressed, leading to premature aging.

Low DHEA and high cortisol affect your brain and behavior, but that's not all. The vicious cycle of low stomach acid affects your inner ecosystem too. Low stomach acid can lead to more bad guys (pathogenic bacteria, candida and viruses) than good guys (healthy microflora), thus lowering your immunity.

Symptoms of Low Stomach Acid

Here are some of the common symptoms and disorders caused by low stomach acid:

    * Bloating, belching, and flatulence immediately after meals
    * Heartburn (often thought to be caused by too much stomach acid)
    * Indigestion, diarrhea, or constipation
    * Undigested food in stools
    * Acne
    * Rectal itching
    * Chronic candida
    * Hair loss in women
    * Multiple food allergies
    * Iron deficiency
    * Weak, peeling, or cracked fingernails
    * Chronic fatigue
    * Adrenal fatigue
    * Dry skin
    * Various autoimmune diseases

Increase Your Stomach Acid, Heal Your Digestion

http://www.bodyecology.com/07/09/20/low_stomach_acid_symptoms.php

As far as I'm aware, B12, folate, B6 and zinc are all required for stomach acid formation, and all require sufficient stomach acid to be absorbed.

The problem is that stomach acid levels generally decline with adrenal fatigue. As the levels decline this interferes with the body's ability to absorb the nutrients required to form the stomach acid including the mentioned nutrients. This leads to further reductions in stomach acid formation, leading to a loss to a loss of nutrient absorption..... And the cycle continues. Therefore, if the body is not producing stomach acid properly then the presence of protein (a stomach acid stimultant) is not going to raise stomach acid properly. And low stomach acid is not going to automatically stimulate the production of more acid.

I'm thinking about the benefits and disadvantages of Betaine HCL supplementation. Does anyone here have some experience in this regard?

[carnivore]

I have taken some betaine HCL during around 2 months. I started with one, and increased at every meal as it is usually recommended. I could take 20 or more capsules without discomfort. To be honest, I don't know if it really helps me. I stopped after a few weeks because I felt the burn in my stomach, and I could see parts of the capsules in my stool.
Today, my digestion is the same as before this experience. For exemple, if I eat seafood (oysters, crabs, etc.), I often have a digestive infection, which means that bacteria was not killed by HCL.

I believe that in our case, the best thing to do is :

Eat 2-3 (or more) small meals a day easy to digest (raw pemmican, tallow, clarified butter, etc.) in order to have a constant supply of energy.

[rawlion]

The case is that the adrenals do not play a role in stomach acid production. They only regulate stomach acid release. A direct correlation between adrenal stimulation and stomach acid release has been known for a while, which led to the belief that stress, which stimulates the adrenals, could cause ulcers.

Here is the Abstract of related Article:

"A relationship between the adrenal gland and the stomach has been demonstrated by an increased gastric acid and pepsin secretion during adrenal stimulation. The adrenal gland has been implicated in the pathogenesis of peptic ulcer disease by the development or reactivation of peptic ulcer during the administration of ACTH or the adrenal steroids.1-5 Conversely, patients with adrenal hypofunction (Addison's disease) characteristically present a decrease in gastric acidity and an unusually low incidence of chronic peptic ulcer.

It has been postulated that emotional duress and other alarm stimuli may produce acute and chronic peptic ulcer in man by a hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal pathway."

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/45/1/73

Betaine HCL could be an option for someone with acute adrenal fatigue. But I'm trying to figure out how to UNLOCK the release of stomach acid... How to directly stimulate it...

[carnivore]

I have a friend who suffer from Addison's disease. He must takes everyday some medecine (cortisol), otherwise he dies. He digests raw meat without problem.

[rawlion]

I have a friend who suffer from Addison's disease. He must takes everyday some medecine (cortisol), otherwise he dies. He digests raw meat without problem.

Hypochlorhydria in Addison's disease can be corrected with administration of cortisone. His daily cortisol may be the reason why he has no problems digesting meats.

I'm a bit worried about the following passage:

"The failure of cortisone to restore the acid secretion in six of our patients with Addison's disease and one with hypopituitarism may indicate that in humans some factor or factors other than DOCA in Addison's disease and thyroid extract in hypopituitarism is required for full replacement therapy or that the gastric mucosa had undergone irreversible change before treatment began."

http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/2/2/163.pdf

[William]

The article is a very good argument for eating raw fat meat, assuming that it is true that such needs no stomach acid for digestion.

Makes me wonder if adrenal insufficiency is maybe more common than suspected, and what causes it?

[rawlion]

The article is a very good argument for eating raw fat meat, assuming that it is true that such needs no stomach acid for digestion.

RAW meats and fats do require stomach acid for proper digestion and assimilation. However amounts needed for the raw foods may be much lower then for the cooked...

Prior to my adrenal fatigue I was able to consume large amounts of meat/fat without any discomfort. Now even two-three oz of soft organ (like kidney) is a tall order for my stomach.

[rawlion]

There are claims that the high fat, low carbohydrate ketogenic diet increases lean body mass , maximizes the bodybuilding effects of such hormones as testosterone, insulin, and natural GH (growth hormone) and lowers cortisol levels resulting in reduced catabolism or muscle breakdown.

I have found similar statements by Jimmy Moore and Michael R. Eades...

Jimmy Moore:

"While I appreciate the work Dr. Barry Sears puts out there, I disagree with his assertion that a state of ketosis increases cortisol and inflammation. The Inuit, Eskimos, and Paleolithic man all THRIVED on a very low-carb ketogenic (VLCK) diet where ketone bodies were the primary source of energy. There was no high-carb foods for them to consume…"

Michael R. Eades:

"In some people the state of ketosis induces a sort of euphoria and, often, insomnia. This state usually passes once one adapts to ketosis. No, low-carb diets don’t cause an increase cortisol. In fact, recent studies have shown just the reverse."

On the other hand, the ketogenic diet has been shown to decrease serum insulin levels and increase cortisol levels and recent studies have reported elevated cortisol levels in children on a ketogenic diet after several weeks...

It'd be great to know who is right...

[TylerDurden]

The claim re Palaeolithic man eating a very low carb ketogenic diet is quite wrong given that hunter-gatherers of today all eat more plant food the closer they get to the equator. And increasing scientific evidenc shows plant consumption in the Middle Palaeolithic etc. It is true that palaeo tribes must have been low carb but, unfortunately, scientific evidence re meat-consumption  is easy to prove as ancient bones are still available as evidence whereas almost all other organic matter such as meats or plant-remains is, understandably gone from the fossil record, as it doesn't fossilize.

I should also mention that, for me, going into ketosis caused my stress-hormone levels to rise dramatically, given my symptoms.

[rawlion]

I think the best evidence re the amount of plant matter consumption by hunter-gatherers would be the climate and living conditions. There is a huge portion of territory from the south of Ukraine to the north of the UK where fruits and veggies are not available for the most of the year. It is only during short period from late May till early October when any significant sources of carbohydrates can be found naturally in our latitudes. And still, most of those carbohydrates are not that palatable.

Now with autumn and winter looming I have this dilemma of finding local paleo carbs. There are simply no as such...

[TylerDurden]

I think the best evidence re the amount of plant matter consumption by hunter-gatherers would be the climate and living conditions. There is a huge portion of territory from the south of Ukraine to the north of the UK where fruits and veggies are not available for most of the year. It is only during short period from late May till early October when any significant sources of carbohydrates can be found naturally in our latitudes. And still, most of those carbohydrates are not that palatable.

Now with autumn and winter looming I have this dilemma of finding local paleo carbs. There are simply no as such...

Actually, the fruit/veg season is longer than that. From what I've read, wild animals do indeed subsist on berries/acorns etc. during winter(and they don't dry them like human native tribes do, so they must still be available).Another consideration is that there were warmer interglacial periods within the Ice Ages(warmer than now) which would have led to greater plant-consumption in Europe.

Oh, and one shouldn't judge past ages by present day conditions. For example, the area around Czernobyl is now chock full of wild animals and plants whereas, pre-human-habitation, the area was practically devoid of such life.

[rawlion]

Oh, and one shouldn't judge past ages by present day conditions. For example, the area around Czernobyl is now chock full of wild animals and plants whereas, pre-human-habitation, the area was practically devoid of such life.

Hey Tyler, are you sure about wild animals near the Chernobyl? Because given my problems with getting wild/grass-fed meats in this area, I may consider some hunting there, as the place where I live, Kiev, is mere 140 kilometers (87 miles) from Chernobyl...

[rawlion]

hunter-gatherers of today all eat more plant food.

What kind of plant food? Fruits mostly?

[TylerDurden]

Hey Tyler, are you sure about wild animals near the Chernobyl? Because given my problems with getting wild/grass-fed meats in this area, I may consider some hunting there, as the place where I live, Kiev, is mere 140 kilometers (87 miles) from Chernobyl...

There are 2 conflicting groups of scientists. 1 group claims wild animals are thriving:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4923342.stm

Another claims that wild animals are still suffering, there. However, as I understand it, the area is now a nature reserve.

[TylerDurden]

What kind of plant food? Fruits mostly?

No, Herbaceous plants were also commonly eaten in the Palaeolithic.

[rawlion]

There are 2 conflicting groups of scientists. 1 group claims wild animals are thriving:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4923342.stm

Another claims that wild animals are still suffering, there. However, as I understand it, the area is now a nature reserve.

Although it is not easy to get the access to the Chernobyl restricted zones I know from the local sources that there are plenty of admirers to hunt there.  Fish mongers are especially motivated expecting a good catch. We used to joke here about something un-proportionally big in size (enormous apple or strawberry) that it was harvested in Chernobyl...

[rawlion]

I’d like to speculate a little bit more on the carbohydrate intake.

In his book “The Ketogenic Diet: A complete guide for the Dieter and Practitioner” Lyle McDonald states that “in a non-ketotic state, the brain utilizes roughly 100 grams of glucose per day. This means that any diet which contains less than 100 grams of carbohydrate per day will induce ketosis, the depth of which will depend on how many carbohydrates are consumed (i.e. less carbohydrates will mean deeper ketosis). During the initial stages of ketosis, any carbohydrate intake below 100 grams will induce ketosis. As the brain adapts to using ketones for fuel and the body’s glucose requirements decrease, less carbohydrate must be consumed if ketosis is to be maintained.

He further says that “the consumption of carbohydrate will decrease dietary protein requirements since less glucose will need to be made from protein breakdown. For example, if a person was consuming 150 grams of protein per day, this would produce 87 grams of glucose plus 18 more from the breakdown of glycerol (from 180 grams of fat) for a total of 105 grams of glucose.” (Assuming a 58% conversion rate for protein and 10% for fat).

Dr. Jan Kwasniewski, the author of The Optimal Diet, suggests that a minimum daily intake of carbohydrate (50 g) is recommended in humans to prevent ketosis and loss of muscle protein. According to his opinion, a correct amount of protein to be consumed in a day is approx. 1 g per 1 kilogram of a due body weight. The ideal proportion between the main food components of protein, fat and carbohydrates should be in the range of: 1 : 2.5 - 3.5 : 0.8. Thus, for a typical 60 kg person, the consumption of 60 g of protein has to be accompanied by between 150 to 210 g of fat, and 30 to 50 g of carbohydrate in order to follow the principles of the Optimal Diet. As a result, we will have 50 g of glucose from carbs, around 35 from protein and from 15 to 20 from fat. That would yield the same 100 – 105 grams of daily glucose.

The question is whether there is any substantial difference between a zero carbohydrate diet consisting of around 150 grams of protein and 180 – 190 grams of fat and the Optimal Diet…?

[carnivore]

Yuri,

Can you detail the way you make your butter ?

It looks like there is a big difference between commercial butter (even raw) and traditional cultured butter in terms of digestion (and taste). I find the latter easier to digest and more tasty.

[rawlion]

Sure, no problem!

Butter is a tricky thing. You can’t be sure of its quality unless you make it yourself. It is practically impossible to identify whether butter is without any additives, you never know if it is rinsed with pure non-chlorinated good water etc. Personally I’m very suspicious and never trust sellers no matter what they say. Besides, after several years of constant searching, I was able to find absolutely remarkable sour cream. For the above reasons I make the butter myself. Like most things made yourself, it tastes wonderful and you control the whole process. So if you're not satisfied with the quality of your butter churn out some butter! (by churn I mean shake up, as I have no butter churner and neither, in all probability, do you!).

Making Butter at Home

Ingredients
The 'ingredients' for butter are simply sour cream and clean cold/room temperature water.

Equipment
You do not need much equipment to make butter at home, a large jar with a lid being the minimum. Personally I use two-quart glass jar.

Method
Let the cream reach room temperature, around 20 C (68 F) is ideal – this is critical. It will make the whole process of churning a lot easier.

Half fill the jar, put the lid on and shake the cream up vigorously. Keep shaking it until the cream has separated into butter and buttermilk (15 to 20 minutes is a good guess on time). It takes patience and endurance. Don’t get discouraged if after about 15 minutes it still just looks like thick cream – it will separate, it just requires time and agitation.

It will go through the usual stage of starting to form firm peaks and then it becomes quite stiff. All of a sudden the cream goes a bit yellow in colour and then little bits of butter appear and a thin liquid, the buttermilk. Just seconds later, the butter seems to clump and is separated from the buttermilk. Drain the buttermilk off.

Washing the Butter
You need to get all the remaining buttermilk out of the butter thus removing traces of lactose and milk proteins. Add clean cold water to the butter in the jar and put the lid on and shake it again. You need the water to be cold or you melt the butter, which will then run off with the water.

Repeat the washing process until the water is really clean, this can be seven or more times. You now need to get the water out of the butter.

Finally, take out the butter from the jar and put it into any container or smaller jar. I store my butter in a half quart glass jars.

I would have uploaded the video of the whole process, but currently I don’t eat any butter so can’t do that. To complement the above instructions I will provide some pictures of butter making.

bon appétit!

[carnivore]

thank's Yuri 

What is precisely sour cream ?
I can find raw organic cream from a farmer. I imagine it is sour cream ?

What about using a blender ?

[rawlion]

Personally I wouldn't bother with blender. Using shaking method is so much simplier and quicker. The described method is by far the best way to make butter at home.

However, blender is a possibility... The basic concept remans the same.

This is the recipe from Aajonus:

Making Raw Butter From Raw Cream
Fill an 8-ounce jar with 7 ounces raw cream. Screw on blender washer/blades./base tightly and blenderize for 90 seconds on high speed. Pour off whey.

And another procedure:

Cream should be removed from the refrigerator and kept at room temperature for about 10 minutes before it is used.

Pour the cream into the bowl or mixer and run it at high speed until the butter separates from the buttermilk. When using a rotary eggbeater, this will take about 20 to 30 minutes. With an electric blender or mixer, it will take only about 3 to 5 minutes.

After the butter is formed, the buttermilk is poured off and the butter is placed in a mixing bowl.

The remaining buttermilk is worked out of the butter with a wooden spoon or paddle.

Butter is washed with cold water. The finished butter is then ready to be served or refrigerated.

[goodsamaritan]

Wow, very informative.  So that's how butter is made.