Yuri recovery

[ForTheHunt]

Well, of course I should have mentioned this before but I forgot somehow. As I found out back in November the lamb/mutton that I was eating is 100% grass fed organic. I suspected it could be the case but never had the proper opportunity to verify that. Finally I had a lengthy conversation with the farmer. Initially I asked him how much grain and other stuff he feeds to his muttons. After he replied none I tried to explain him that it is simply impossible. I told him that I had read in certain veterinary books that animals require at least some grains ( ). But he took a strong stand. Then he showed me the pictures of his beautiful farm and the green pastures. He even invited me to visit these places but I never had the energy to do that. Anyways I was more than totally satisfied with that.

With that said I am totally convinced that during winter months he feeds his animals some small amounts of grains and probably starches.

As for the quality of dairy that I am getting it is truly divine. I am buying it from one milkman in whom I have absolute trust. He owns only one cow and treats her very well. He has lots of land and stores ups huge amounts of hay for the winter.

What the hell are you talking about? Sheep don't require grains at all.

[rawlion]

I don't know the source of your dark circles under the eyes, but some common causes cited in links found with a little searching are deficiencies in vitamin K2 or iron. Vitamin A is also sometimes cited. It's strange, though, because if you're eating a raw animal-based diet, you would think you'd be getting these nutrients from pasture-fed organs, red meats and raw dairy.

I suffer from severe chronic pernicious anemia and have all the typical symptoms. Even my lab results prove that.

[rawlion]

What the hell are you talking about? Sheep don't require grains at all.

Don't you worry, I know... Have you noticed that broad GRIN??? I bluffed to find out the truth.

[ys]

What the hell are you talking about? Sheep don't require grains at all

very true they don't require grains, but they are fed grains to fatten them up.  very wide-spread practice.

[pc701]

So your blaming all your troubles on your consumption of grain fed meats?

[KD]

So your blaming all your troubles on your consumption of grain fed meats?

dude, can you not even follow a thread?

you are very quick to push whatever agenda it is that mirrors your limited experience.

maybe ask him what he thinks instead of some kind of know-it-all exclamation.

[pc701]

Yes I am following,  I didn't understand why Tyler wrote that, that's why I asked the question. My agenda is to find out the truth, and I still have doubts about this raw meat thing, I mean who wouldn't after I myself and numerous other people on this forum suffer kidney problems. I also don't suscribe to the silly theory that we  cooked our meat all this time because we liked it so much or because we got addicted to it. There is a reason why true carnivores stomach acid is much stronger than ours. I'm much more believe we began cooking so our stomachs  don't do as much work, heat denatured proteins and so does stomach acid. I should probably find some proof to support my theory that undigested proteins cause injury to the body. Sure I understand that some people feel better with raw meat versus cooked but if raw meat really gave more energy and more health, then no culture today would be cooking their meat. 

   

[KD]

there is a difference between having skepticism and assuming other peoples issues prove your conclusions prior to actually engaging with the particulars of the issue. If you feeling strongly about the points you just brought up, bring them up in general discussions, and don't pretend to troubleshoot other peoples problems. If he said something like "I suspect there is something wrong with my kidneys", chime in with your anecdotes. but he said he was medically tested for pernicious anemia, which has nothing to do with kidney function, or raw meat eating unless one really believes that a 80+% sugar diet is the way to correct such things.

How do I know this, because I've in the past has the same diagnosis after years of raw veganism. Now, raw veganism might not even be the cause, but it is related to b-12 deficiency and other absorption issues such as candida. Are there other protocols other than just eating meat and fat that could resolve this for Yuri? Possibly, for me I did have I think 2 b-12 shots and took pills for awhile and that seemed to give a jump start to the situation that resolved itself (at least medically) with animal foods. I'm still dealing with the fungal aspects, but I think last time I checked my b-12 was fine. Even so, I have issues with myself being able to diagnose or troubleshoot such a problem without at least hearing what he thinks.

[pc701]

He has anemia because his digestive system is screwed up and has kidney issues because of his diet, end of story.

[KD]

Its the reverse with anemia, but either way it is irrelevant, because even if his problems are "due to his diet" you nor I are in a position to diagnose his problems.

pc701
 I used to do paleo but quit
« on: August 26, 2009, 05:00:40 PM »


hello, just some comments

I went on the paleo diet (i was not overweight 5,11 155lbs) and found it hard sticking to it. My whole point here is that one should eat what one wants to eat ...and i KNOW that people hate being on this diet because they miss all the foods that they ate for most of their life that are the mainstay in multiple cultures/societies (corn,potaotes,dairy,sugar bread.etc).

What i would recommend to people is eat what you want ,your taste buds are an indication of what you need for your body i believe..If you dislike eating salads and eating meat everyday then DONT DO IT.

TRY THIS/HOW ABOUT THIS:...EAT ANY FOODS YOU LIKE BUT JUST EAT ONE MEAL A DAY AND AT NIGHT...along with...INTERMITTENT FASTING/FASTING ...say 2-3 days a week (for people who want to loose weight perhaps or just for those who want a change)

TIP: i believe paleo hunters only really did eat at night/past noon with the fire and meat roasting and 1 meal a day and not at least 3 meals a day like most people do. also, they intermittently fasted (they did not catch game/meat everyday right...)

Just my comments and opinion.

http://cavemanforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=f16f12944b4609a224273ee03a3e724d&topic=1517.0

[pc701]

You proved nothing KD except that people change.

[MrBBQ]

Yuri, would you say that you meet your protein requirements correctly, given that you exercise, or even over-exercise? You seem to have little adipose tissue these days - is that optimal? How's your electrolyte balance - any cramps?

I'm interested in this thread, mainly because I am studying kidney challenge myself with the inclusion of plenty of meat+fat...However, it does not mean that I'm scaremongering...

Initially, I seem to remember that PaleoPhil resolved long-standing nephritis with a raw zero-carb diet...Am I right PaleoPhil? If this kind of stress on the kidneys (clearing serum nitrogen etc.) is damaging, how could PaleoPhil resolve nephritis?

Also, all this talk of kidneys here and nobody experimented with nephrolithiasis dissolution through herbalism. I have bought all the roots/herbs I need now for the cleanse and I will subject myself to it next week, which should be interesting.

The question would be - why do some people have kidney challenge and others not? Do the dark circles indicate the irreversible destruction of the nephrons or simply inefficiency? Is the gravel in the glomerulus (formed by various precipitates) obstructing passage of plasma filtrates?

pc701, you seem to be a self-appointed clinician and yet you've not actually demonstrated much knowledge of physiology. Naturally, I appreciate your submissions, but with people only benefitting from meat+fat around here, you will have to be more convincing about your argument, otherwise you're implicitly calling the others liars. Also, hypothesise that fruits aren't in season and you're struggling to gather, yet there's plenty of hunting to be had - what's the call of the wild, survival or kidney ache?

So what's say some of us participate in a kidney cleanse and report back later?

If anyone wants to talk kidney filtering capacity, nephrons or anything else, I'm interested...

Also, liver function affects the kidneys, so wonder how many precipitates have formed in the many bile ducts over the toxic years - city dwelling is a bastard for getting bile to precipitate out of solution and in your nice little liver lobes/tubes, the main ducts and the gallbladder. Like I always say, these things don't clear out on their own from diet...

Much to learn...With all that meat-eating and nephron-trashing, it makes one wonder how our ancient ancestors survived (said with some facetiousness). I hate propaganda...All diets are shit, all humans are shit and the universe is going to implode, hehe!

Too much thinking and not enough intuition...Who's eating bones and organs every day to balance out those muscle meats? Who's eating mixed game from large and small animals?

[MrBBQ]

Another thing - is food moving well through the GI tract, with a daily bowel movement, at least?

Also, how is the basal metabolic rate? Did you ever measure body temperature upon waking (like via armpit or bumhole, hehe)?

How is your thyroid/adrenals? Any greasy stools or pain radiating up to right shoulder blade upon eating fats?

[rawlion]

Yuri, would you say that you meet your protein requirements correctly, given that you exercise, or even over-exercise? You seem to have little adipose tissue these days - is that optimal? How's your electrolyte balance - any cramps?

I think my ratios are fine. The problem is that I may not be digesting the foods properly and absorbing the nutrients efficiently. You are actually not what you eat but rather what you absorb.

My belly/waist fat is not normal, especially if you consider that I am long-term zero-carber.

I do have muscle cramps.

is food moving well through the GI tract, with a daily bowel movement, at least?

No, they are not.

Also, how is the basal metabolic rate? Did you ever measure body temperature upon waking (like via armpit or bumhole, hehe)?

Around 97 in the mornings. I am Thermal chameleon - hot when it's warm and cold when it's cool. My thermoregulation is poor though.

How is your thyroid/adrenals? Any greasy stools or pain radiating up to right shoulder blade upon eating fats?

I have low metabolic energy, the cause is either adrenal fatigue or low thyroid function.

No pain related problems with fats.

[MrBBQ]

I prefer to say you're not what you intake, you're what you uptake...

Well, I couldn't really comprehend the timeline of your photos - is the "now" you the one with a belly or the one that is carved flesh, sinew and bone?!

Do you eat raw or low-heat dessicated thyroid? Also, do you have a good source of carbohydrates? Have you ever considered hi-carb, hi-fat, enough-protein approach, along with glandular support from raw sweetbreads? How about anti-inflammatory glycine from bone meal/broth?

Can you tolerate coconut oil, and do you know about its great effect on the thyroid and metabolism? The medium-chain fats in coconut oil (much more so than in butter) are uptaken without emulsification with bile salts.

Have you seen the anecdotes about restoring optimal peristalsis by increasing bile output? Do you consider the potential that you have severe congestion of the hepatic lobes and ducts, even though it's sub-clinical/asymptomatic?

I think that my dark circles and kidney stress are also in the context of more systemic problems, which can be exacerbated by our original diet of meat+fat.

Our other contemporaries have braved different conditions and stuck with raw meat+fat to ultimately resolve some of their transient challenges (Tyler, Lex, PaleoPhil, goodsamaritan etc.), so it's worth experimentation.

Are you unfavourable towards the ancient shamanic art of herbalism?

[MrBBQ]

Also, is it through dogma or some favourable results that you're sticking with RZC? Our other friends have then decided that RZC is never going to be optimal for them (you have seen the experiences of others, right?).

Sugars complexed in whole foods (namely fruit) can be a good thing and it's natural to develop good glucose tolerance (according to some scholars).

[MrBBQ]

So thinking about it, you have a damaged metabolism and instead of generating heat (a la high BMR), you're driving the excess calories into abdominal adipose deposits...

Repair the metabolism (ultimately, the cellular metabolism, including mitochondria) and you transform the adipose into radiant heat...

Thyroid, coconut oil, carbs...Try it, you might like it...;-)) Restoring any kind of glucose tolerance after RZC would be tough in the first meals though (and quite discouraging) - that would be transient though...

[cherimoya_kid]

Sure I understand that some people feel better with raw meat versus cooked but if raw meat really gave more energy and more health, then no culture today would be cooking their meat. 

   

We have been discussing your banning for several days now.  This comment is quite likely to put us over the edge.  Consider this a chance to reign yourself in before an official warning.

[KD]

You proved nothing KD except that people change.

from the time-frame of 6 mo ago, your current dietary practice, and assuming that your raw experimentation came some time after this post, its means that it is pretty clear to all that your theories are composed of bits and pieces of misreading others, as opposed to any significant experiences of your own.

esp. in regards to long term effects raw protein consumption and kidney issues which seems to be your main trick of 'expertise'. based on what weeks of experimentation? I have no personal biases towards RPD being a one sized fits all miracle diet, but I've been on diet forums long enough to tell when people give non-experiential info like its the prophecy, which is tolerable to a point until they try to play expert on individuals trying to get well.  The idea that kidney damage exists within a vacuum of health in raw meat consumption in some individuals and not others is completely absurd. If there is damage, clearly its base is in some pre-existing issue. Whether raw meat and fat is the appropriate cure or exacerbated by such for yourself or Yuri is what is debatable, if done intelligently and with some actual science, or at the very least long-term personal experiences on various approaches.

[pc701]

Maybe I should of  post my doubts in the hot topics section. Anyways, i think all hunter gatherers cooked
 their meat for a logical reason, they followed their instincts, they are very wise,  they ate certain parts raw and certain cooked, they did what worked and a 100% raw meat diet they did not eat because they recognized it did not work. They passed on generation after generation what worked, what makes healthy goodlooking babies, if raw meat digested easier made them stronger taller then they would take that info and apply it, but that never happend. And the reason why some can fully digest the raw protein and some can't is because stronger digestion/ stomach acid. I trust our past and current Paleolithic ancestors such as the Khoi/ San people,  Indian buffalo hunters, Amazonian tribes more so than this recent fad experiment in all raw diet, they have the true knowledge, wisdom and experience. If we all had the stomach acid of a lion we could all eat pounds of meat a day and become giants, but we don't have that and therefore some of us have to resort to cooking our meat. Of course raw meat/animal foods can be healing, but i have doubts whether it's doable longterm. That's cool if you decide to kick me off, but I say these things so others don't get possibly hurt and to read a second opinion. Even neaderthals cooked their meats. I'm just saying that our ancestors/ Paleolithic peoples could not have not gotten it wrong. True, maybe the optimal diet is a all raw diet, but if it was then I don't see why our ancestors would not have done it.    
 

[klowcarb]

I don't really see dark circles, just a little redness around the cornea. I have that too, but I have always had that. It is not very noticeable.

[goodsamaritan]

PC701,

The whole point of raw paleo diet is to debunk your position.

That humans have made a WRONG TURN in the arena of cooking.
Just as fruits are meant to be eaten raw.
Meat is meant to be eaten raw.
- the hard parts to scavenge nutrition from cooked.
Vegetables need processing to be eaten whether fermenting, cooking or juicing.

Now that in the 21st century we know better because we can put our minds to work with internet communications, we are solving the puzzle and healing ourselves.

In my book, we are heading to towards more optimal health than at anytime in history or pre-history because of our combined global knowledge... if we can overcome air pollution in our cities... we will solve that too.

We are not merely imitating some paleo past, we are learning from the past and improving every year.  This is 21st century raw paleo dieting and lifestyle.  We pass this on to the next generation, and they will get better at it.  Don't let the "paleo" connotation fool you that we are trying to be primitive.  This is all progress.

[TylerDurden]

Maybe I should of  post my doubts in the hot topics section. Anyways, i think all hunter gatherers cooked
 their meat for a logical reason, they followed their instincts, they are very wise,  they ate certain parts raw and certain cooked, they did what worked and a 100% raw meat diet they did not eat because they recognized it did not work. They passed on generation after generation what worked, what makes healthy goodlooking babies, if raw meat digested easier made them stronger taller then they would take that info and apply it, but that never happend. And the reason why some can fully digest the raw protein and some can't is because stronger digestion/ stomach acid. I trust our past and current Paleolithic ancestors such as the Khoi/ San people,  Indian buffalo hunters, Amazonian tribes more so than this recent fad experiment in all raw diet, they have the true knowledge, wisdom and experience. If we all had the stomach acid of a lion we could all eat pounds of meat a day and become giants, but we don't have that and therefore some of us have to resort to cooking our meat. Of course raw meat/animal foods can be healing, but i have doubts whether it's doable longterm. That's cool if you decide to kick me off, but I say these things so others don't get possibly hurt and to read a second opinion. Even neaderthals cooked their meats. I'm just saying that our ancestors/ Paleolithic peoples could not have not gotten it wrong. True, maybe the optimal diet is a all raw diet, but if it was then I don't see why our ancestors would not have done it.    
 

 This is a mind-boggingly stupid opinion as it blindly  assumes that anything that humans do for long periods must therefore be good for them. The fact that modern humans routinely do harmful things such as smoking tobacco, taking heroin or taking life-threatening risks re extreme sports, carrying out circumcision rites etc., makes it pretty clear that humans can easily carry out harmful practices for endless  millenia, whether or not they are aware of the negative consequences of those actions, so  the above troll's opinion is simply laughable. And the notion that HGs like the Khoi/San people  are somehow wiser than any other human is just another example of the foolishness in believing in the ridiculous mythical Noble Savage theory. And strictly speaking, the raw, palaeolithic diet is much older than any other diet  as it was practised  all the way up till 250,000 years ago when cooking was invented, it's the modern balanced diet which is the fad experiment. Plus, we are the only species to cook its food, indicating just how weird and faddish humans are, at least as regards cooking.

As for the claims re needing the stomach-acid of a lion in order to digest raw meats, that's also fundamentally retarded as a notion, as there are plenty of raw omnivorous wild animals who don't possess the stomach-acid/digestive system  of a carnivore, yet easily manage to eat raw meats with no issues.

[rawlion]

 

Well, I couldn't really comprehend the timeline of your photos - is the "now" you the one with a belly or the one that is carved flesh, sinew and bone?!

Those where I am FAT were taken this past Sunday. My weight is normal but due to decrease in muscle mass I have the extra fat.

Do you eat raw or low-heat dessicated thyroid? Also, do you have a good source of carbohydrates? Have you ever considered hi-carb, hi-fat, enough-protein approach, along with glandular support from raw sweetbreads? How about anti-inflammatory glycine from bone meal/broth?

No, I can’t get raw thyroid. The farmers mistakenly believe that thymus is actually the thyroid. Even meat inspection experts claim it is the same thing. I have no pictures of real thyroid to prove they are wrong.

I don’t understand what you mean by “good source of carbohydrates”.  In winter I can get honey and starches. Fruits are available from late June till early October.

Currently I am not in a position to consider any approach due to nonexistent digestion. I can only theorize or speculate.
Why kind of benefit may I expect from eating raw sweetbreads?
Bone broth may be a good idea.

Can you tolerate coconut oil, and do you know about its great effect on the thyroid and metabolism? The medium-chain fats in coconut oil (much more so than in butter) are uptaken without emulsification with bile salts.

No, I can’t tolerate it. Moreover it is not available here. Besides it is yet to be proven that coconut oil may have any healing effect on the thyroid. Is Coconut Oil Really a Thyroid Cure?

Have you seen the anecdotes about restoring optimal peristalsis by increasing bile output? Do you consider the potential that you have severe congestion of the hepatic lobes and ducts, even though it's sub-clinical/asymptomatic?

Everything is possible. I have no idea.

Are you unfavourable towards the ancient shamanic art of herbalism?

I don’t really have the energy to dig deeper into any alternative cures.

Also, is it through dogma or some favourable results that you're sticking with RZC? Our other friends have then decided that RZC is never going to be optimal for them (you have seen the experiences of others, right?).
 

I just wanted to make it through the winter without carbs. Naturally speaking there are not much of them under the snow out there.

No Scotty, I haven’t seen other’s experiences.

Thank you for your input

[aunaturale]

Yuri , How's the acid-resuscitation regimen coming along?


Hope all is well man
Luke